Nitto Stem questions (2) and Weimann brake lever bracket question (1)

[ddog]

After investigation, I thought would go to Nitto 26mm bars and Nitto
longer Stem instead of introducing threadless stem different company
componenet interface issues. Nitto quality was the biggest deciding
factor to change, as Sheldon suggested earlier, for my 1971 Raleigh
Supercourse.

1. Looking for about 2" higher bars on stem, so are there different
heights are just one Nitto Technomic stem with different stem bar
depth reaches? Anyone know the range of bar height increase with this
stem?

2. If have about 90cm stem reach on my low stem now, how would I
estimate what would be best depth, just approximate 90-110cm for an
average? Just sit forward or backward on seat for brief periods to
simulate reach?

3. Until I put Scott Mathauer rust pads on Weimann caliper, which were
stock on Weimann calipers, never knew how good the calipers and levers
really were. Is there any way the 7/8" or 15/16" handlebar clamp on
Wiemann levers will fit 26cm Nitto bars (up to 3.7mm dia difference in
clamps)? Or what would I need to do, other than have Tektro 200A as my
backup plan? I would really like to keep the Weimann levers on the
bike if possible.


Thanks!

 

[ddog]

On Feb 27, 7:23 pm, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
> After investigation, I thought would go to Nitto 26mm bars and Nitto
> longer Stem instead of introducing threadless stem different company
> componenet interface issues. Nitto quality was the biggest deciding
> factor to change, as Sheldon suggested earlier, for my 1971 Raleigh
> Supercourse.
>
> 1. Looking for about 2" higher bars on stem, so are there different
> heights are just one Nitto Technomic stem with different stem bar
> depth reaches? Anyone know the range of bar height increase with this
> stem?
>
> 2. If have about 90cm stem reach on my low stem now, how would I
> estimate what would be best depth, just approximate 90-110cm for an
> average? Just sit forward or backward on seat for brief periods to
> simulate reach?
>
> 3. Until I put Scott Mathauer rust pads on Weimann caliper, which were
> stock on Weimann calipers, never knew how good the calipers and levers
> really were. Is there any way the 7/8" or 15/16" handlebar clamp on
> Wiemann levers will fit 26cm Nitto bars (up to 3.7mm dia difference in
> clamps)? Or what would I need to do, other than have Tektro 200A as my
> backup plan? I would really like to keep the Weimann levers on the
> bike if possible.
>
> Thanks!

Sheldon's site answered question number one, 2.5" raised: perfect.

 

[landotter]

On Feb 27, 6:30 pm, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Feb 27, 7:23 pm, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > After investigation, I thought would go to Nitto 26mm bars and Nitto
> > longer Stem instead of introducing threadless stem different company
> > componenet interface issues. Nitto quality was the biggest deciding
> > factor to change, as Sheldon suggested earlier, for my 1971 Raleigh
> > Supercourse.
>
> > 1. Looking for about 2" higher bars on stem, so are there different
> > heights are just one Nitto Technomic stem with different stem bar
> > depth reaches? Anyone know the range of bar height increase with this
> > stem?
>
> > 2. If have about 90cm stem reach on my low stem now, how would I
> > estimate what would be best depth, just approximate 90-110cm for an
> > average? Just sit forward or backward on seat for brief periods to
> > simulate reach?
>
> > 3. Until I put Scott Mathauer rust pads on Weimann caliper, which were
> > stock on Weimann calipers, never knew how good the calipers and levers
> > really were. Is there any way the 7/8" or 15/16" handlebar clamp on
> > Wiemann levers will fit 26cm Nitto bars (up to 3.7mm dia difference in
> > clamps)? Or what would I need to do, other than have Tektro 200A as my
> > backup plan? I would really like to keep the Weimann levers on the
> > bike if possible.

I thought the bar diameter on the old jobbers was the same as the new?
I didn't have a problem mounting circa '77 Shimano kit on a new
Ritchey bar a while back. I now use the 200A levers and really like
them. Fair warning: they're big, so throw you forward another
centimeter or two when riding the hoods. If you ride the hoods a lot,
you might want to get a slightly shorter stem. Nashbar's got their
house levers on sale for $15 with a spare set of hoods, they're more
of a traditional shape. Also, Cane Creek makes some rebadged 200As
that have gum colored hoods--which might look nicer on a vintage
bike..

 

[ddog]

On Feb 27, 8:23 pm, "landotter" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Feb 27, 6:30 pm, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 27, 7:23 pm, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > After investigation, I thought would go to Nitto 26mm bars and Nitto
> > > longer Stem instead of introducing threadless stem different company
> > > componenet interface issues. Nitto quality was the biggest deciding
> > > factor to change, as Sheldon suggested earlier, for my 1971 Raleigh
> > > Supercourse.
>
> > > 1. Looking for about 2" higher bars on stem, so are there different
> > > heights are just one Nitto Technomic stem with different stem bar
> > > depth reaches? Anyone know the range of bar height increase with this
> > > stem?
>
> > > 2. If have about 90cm stem reach on my low stem now, how would I
> > > estimate what would be best depth, just approximate 90-110cm for an
> > > average? Just sit forward or backward on seat for brief periods to
> > > simulate reach?
>
> > > 3. Until I put Scott Mathauer rust pads on Weimann caliper, which were
> > > stock on Weimann calipers, never knew how good the calipers and levers
> > > really were. Is there any way the 7/8" or 15/16" handlebar clamp on
> > > Wiemann levers will fit 26cm Nitto bars (up to 3.7mm dia difference in
> > > clamps)? Or what would I need to do, other than have Tektro 200A as my
> > > backup plan? I would really like to keep the Weimann levers on the
> > > bike if possible.
>
> I thought the bar diameter on the old jobbers was the same as the new?
> I didn't have a problem mounting circa '77 Shimano kit on a new
> Ritchey bar a while back. I now use the 200A levers and really like
> them. Fair warning: they're big, so throw you forward another
> centimeter or two when riding the hoods. If you ride the hoods a lot,
> you might want to get a slightly shorter stem. Nashbar's got their
> house levers on sale for $15 with a spare set of hoods, they're more
> of a traditional shape. Also, Cane Creek makes some rebadged 200As
> that have gum colored hoods--which might look nicer on a vintage
> bike..- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Landlotter,

No, the bars are 22.3mm, an old Raleigh unique feature. The brackets
are just bent straight pieces with holes, so hopefully Loose Screws or
even LBS can help me out on bracket. The reason I like tektro levers
are they have quick release, campy brake copy, and Cane Creek hoods
are softer: feel better, but wear out faster. But I really want to
keep Weinmann brake levers since the brakes are perfect now, and want
to keep all angles exactly the same. I just need to hook new cables in
them, mainly to reroute cable over handlebar for direct entry into
noodle. But (finally) figured the Nitto stem/bars was the best way to
go, so why not do it at same time?

I appreciate the observation on hood distance. Don't really ride the
hoods often, but sometimes I do and they do feel a little close now
that you mention it. Maybe that is one of the most important factors
in fine adjustment of stem depth. It will just take allot of hard
thinking I guess without simulating it somehow or trial and error.
Pretty complicated interfaces and never seen anything published to
date on how to attack the 'fit' problem. First, I need to address
Weinmann Lever problem, and go from there.


Thanks for your astute observation!!

 

[Sheldon Brown]

On Feb 27, 7:23 pm, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
> After investigation, I thought would go to Nitto 26mm bars and Nitto
> longer Stem instead of introducing threadless stem different company
> componenet interface issues. Nitto quality was the biggest deciding
> factor to change, asSheldonsuggested earlier, for my 1971 Raleigh
> Supercourse.
>
> 1. Looking for about 2" higher bars on stem, so are there different
> heights are just one Nitto Technomic stem with different stem bar
> depth reaches? Anyone know the range of bar height increase with this
> stem?

Nitto Technomics are all the same height, come with different reaches.

> 2. If have about 90cm stem reach on my low stem now, how would I
> estimate what would be best depth, just approximate 90-110cm for an
> average? Just sit forward or backward on seat for brief periods to
> simulate reach?

There's really no sure-fire way to do this, because you don't even
know that the 90 mm reach was ideal for your body to begin with.
After all, you wouldn't be replacing the stem at all if you were
comfortable.

I usually use the FitKit for this, but that's not something that can
be done over the internet.

> 3. Until I put Scott Mathauer rust pads on Weimann caliper, which were
> stock on Weimann calipers, never knew how good the calipers and levers
> really were. Is there any way the 7/8" or 15/16" handlebar clamp on
> Wiemann levers will fit 26cm Nitto bars (up to 3.7mm dia difference in
> clamps)?

No.

> Or what would I need to do, other than have Tektro 200A as my
> backup plan? I would really like to keep the Weimann levers on the
> bike if possible.

Back in the day shops used to stock the clamp bands in both sizes.
Might be hard to find these days, and, in my opinion, not worth the
effort. Switching from the old Weinmann levers to modern levers such
as the Tektros will make a BIG improvement in braking, possibly more
than the upgraded brake shoes. If I had a Super Course the levers
would be the first thing I'd replace.

Sheldon "Upgrades" Brown

 

[landotter]

On Feb 27, 10:03 pm, "Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Switching from the old Weinmann levers to modern levers such
> as the Tektros will make a BIG improvement in braking, possibly more
> than the upgraded brake shoes. If I had a Super Course the levers
> would be the first thing I'd replace.
>

Funny, I've upgraded a couple vintage bikes from 70s 600 to the R200s,
mainly as it's often cheaper than sourcing new hoods--but I've not
noticed any palpable increase in braking power. I know that I *should*
as there is more mechanical advantage, but something in me thinks it's
lost with the friction of the cable routing. Maybe I should blow the
bank and spend a tenner on some teflon coated inner cable. At any
rate, both old and new levers stopped the bike on a dime--and that's
due to the Kool-Stop Contis you turned me on to. They're the smartest
upgrade ever for vintage kit. That and big meaty hands, if I can grow
'em, anybody can!

land "thanks Cap'n Bike!" otter

 

[ddog]

On Feb 27, 11:03 pm, "Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Feb 27, 7:23 pm, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > After investigation, I thought would go to Nitto 26mm bars and Nitto
> > longer Stem instead of introducing threadless stem different company
> > componenet interface issues. Nitto quality was the biggest deciding
> > factor to change, asSheldonsuggested earlier, for my 1971 Raleigh
> > Supercourse.
>
> > 1. Looking for about 2" higher bars on stem, so are there different
> > heights are just one Nitto Technomic stem with different stem bar
> > depth reaches? Anyone know the range of bar height increase with this
> > stem?
>
> Nitto Technomics are all the same height, come with different reaches.
>
> > 2. If have about 90cm stem reach on my low stem now, how would I
> > estimate what would be best depth, just approximate 90-110cm for an
> > average? Just sit forward or backward on seat for brief periods to
> > simulate reach?
>
> There's really no sure-fire way to do this, because you don't even
> know that the 90 mm reach was ideal for your body to begin with.
> After all, you wouldn't be replacing the stem at all if you were
> comfortable.
>
> I usually use the FitKit for this, but that's not something that can
> be done over the internet.
>
> > 3. Until I put Scott Mathauer rust pads on Weimann caliper, which were
> > stock on Weimann calipers, never knew how good the calipers and levers
> > really were. Is there any way the 7/8" or 15/16" handlebar clamp on
> > Wiemann levers will fit 26cm Nitto bars (up to 3.7mm dia difference in
> > clamps)?
>
> No.
>
> > Or what would I need to do, other than have Tektro 200A as my
> > backup plan? I would really like to keep the Weimann levers on the
> > bike if possible.
>
> Back in the day shops used to stock the clamp bands in both sizes.
> Might be hard to find these days, and, in my opinion, not worth the
> effort. Switching from the old Weinmann levers to modern levers such
> as the Tektros will make a BIG improvement in braking, possibly more
> than the upgraded brake shoes. If I had a Super Course the levers
> would be the first thing I'd replace.
>
> Sheldon "Upgrades" Brown

Thanks Sheldon.

But even a fit kit would be deceptive, because until you rode with it
in different circumstances over time, the static fit may not be the
best fit. If I make a matrix of factors like hood distance, different
fatigue factors, etc... the best overall close estimate may evolve.
The reason for the change is not depth, but height mainly; and you are
right, I don't know if best depth now, and know too short in at least
one factor Landlotter mentioned. Even that one factor of drop comfort
can change by moving brake levers up on bars. But best in
multidimensions makes it hard to estimate, especially considering
everything will change with higher stem. I have some tools to help me
estimate different factors. There are too may variables to make
unifrom suggestions, and like seats, is probably something LBS's like,
since is keeps customers coming back to find that 'ultimate' solution.
But there should be a 'natural' order of fit, the same as crank,
pedal, seat, stem/bars, within stem/bars fit alone - the final
frontier.


Landlotter,

I also wondered about the cable routing tight curves close to bars.
Eventually, the Teflon will wear off cable, where as regular cables
routed properly can last a few decades easily. My brakes are like ABS
now, so I can't see them becoming too much more effective now. The
Tektros would be nice, especially with the quick release, but it
'makes' you use the tight curved cables around handlebars. First, I'm
going to try to fix the Weinmann clamps since doesn't 'look' that
difficult to change with any 26mm clamp. But like the Nitto stem and
bars, I may 'have' to switch levers in the end anyway. The stock
Weinmann brake system down to oem pads, feel so good now and would
like to keep something that still works so well from original bike.


Thanks,
Phil Bailey

 

[[email protected]]

On Feb 27, 6:30 pm, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Feb 27, 7:23 pm, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > After investigation, I thought would go to Nitto 26mm bars and Nitto
> > longer Stem instead of introducing threadless stem different company
> > componenet interface issues. Nitto quality was the biggest deciding
> > factor to change, as Sheldon suggested earlier, for my 1971 Raleigh
> > Supercourse.
>
> > 1. Looking for about 2" higher bars on stem, so are there different
> > heights are just one Nitto Technomic stem with different stem bar
> > depth reaches? Anyone know the range of bar height increase with this
> > stem?

>
> Sheldon's site answered question number one, 2.5" raised: perfect.

Nitto Technomic stems have far, far, far, far more than 2.5" of
height. Harris Cyclery says about 2.5" higher than traditional
stems. That is not a useful answer. What is traditional? My TTT
Synthesis is farily traditional and it has more height than normal
quill stems. Its about 2" of height. But the Technomic has far, far
more than 2.5" of height on it. The Harris Cyclery description is
worthless. Rivendell lists three different Tecnomic stems. Gives two
different quill lengths, 190 and 225. Gives two different
adjustability ranges, 152mm and 210mm. So figure 6" to 8.25" range of
adjustability. From Min insertion line until the horizontal extension
is touching the headset. Or maybe until the wedge hits the brake
caliper bolt.

http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/
http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/16047.html
http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/16120.html

 

[ddog]

On Feb 28, 9:38 am, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Feb 27, 6:30 pm, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 27, 7:23 pm, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > After investigation, I thought would go to Nitto 26mm bars and Nitto
> > > longer Stem instead of introducing threadless stem different company
> > > componenet interface issues. Nitto quality was the biggest deciding
> > > factor to change, as Sheldon suggested earlier, for my 1971 Raleigh
> > > Supercourse.
>
> > > 1. Looking for about 2" higher bars on stem, so are there different
> > > heights are just one Nitto Technomic stem with different stem bar
> > > depth reaches? Anyone know the range of bar height increase with this
> > > stem?
>
> > Sheldon's site answered question number one, 2.5" raised: perfect.
>
> Nitto Technomic stems have far, far, far, far more than 2.5" of
> height. Harris Cyclery says about 2.5" higher than traditional
> stems. That is not a useful answer. What is traditional? My TTT
> Synthesis is farily traditional and it has more height than normal
> quill stems. Its about 2" of height. But the Technomic has far, far
> more than 2.5" of height on it. The Harris Cyclery description is
> worthless. Rivendell lists three different Tecnomic stems. Gives two
> different quill lengths, 190 and 225. Gives two different
> adjustability ranges, 152mm and 210mm. So figure 6" to 8.25" range of
> adjustability. From Min insertion line until the horizontal extension
> is touching the headset. Or maybe until the wedge hits the brake
> caliper bolt.
>
> http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/hand...com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/16120.html- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Interesting. Something else to research.

Thanks!

 

[Sheldon Brown]

Phil Bailey wrote:
> But even a fit kit would be deceptive, because until you rode with it
> in different circumstances over time, the static fit may not be the
> best fit.

Good fitters don't blindly follow the numbers the FitKit spits out,
they take into account the riders style, priorities and physical
condition.

> I also wondered about the cable routing tight curves close to bars.

Not sure what tight curves you're speaking of. If you're speaking of
where the housing goes from the inside of the hood back under the
tape, that's an issue with DiaCompe levers, but not with Campagnolo,
Shimano or Tektro/Cane Creek.

If you're speaking about where the housing exits the tape near the
middle of the bars, the bend is not severe enough to be an issue, when
the cables are cut to the correct length.

> Eventually, the Teflon will wear off cable,

I have never observed this with properly routed cables.

However, back in the day of exposed cables, it was EXTREMELY common to
see brakes that were compromised by kinked housing at the point where
it exits the hoods. This is an area that is highly prone to damage.

> My brakes are like ABS
> now, so I can't see them becoming too much more effective now.

Can you come to a quick stop while braking from the tops of the
hoods? That's where the "aero" levers come into their own.

Braking from the drops is about equal, but the different internal
geometry of "aero" levers results in much better braking from the
hoods.


> I'm going to try to fix the Weinmann clamps since doesn't 'look' that
> difficult to change with any 26mm clamp.
There are no "26 mm" clamps. The 26 mm is the diameter of the bulge
where the bars fit the stem.

The brake clamps you want for aluminum bars are marked 23.8 (the ones
you have are marked 22.2 for steel bars)

If you have a helpful local bike shop, see if they have any in their
junk piles. Many bike shops accumulate a lot of this older stuff when
doing upright bar conversions on older bikes.

Sheldon "Stop!" Brown
+----------------------------------------------------------+
| Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; |
| but it is always the strongly marked feature of all |
| religions established by law. |
| Take away the law-establishment, and every religion |
| re-assumes its original benignity. |
| Thomas Paine -- The Rights of Man, 1791 |
+----------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[A Muzi]

> "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> After investigation, I thought would go to Nitto 26mm bars and Nitto
>>> longer Stem instead of introducing threadless stem different company
>>> componenet interface issues. Nitto quality was the biggest deciding
>>> factor to change, as Sheldon suggested earlier, for my 1971 Raleigh
>>> Supercourse.
>>> 1. Looking for about 2" higher bars on stem, so are there different
>>> heights are just one Nitto Technomic stem with different stem bar
>>> depth reaches? Anyone know the range of bar height increase with this
>>> stem?
>> Sheldon's site answered question number one, 2.5" raised: perfect.

[email protected] wrote:
> Nitto Technomic stems have far, far, far, far more than 2.5" of
> height. Harris Cyclery says about 2.5" higher than traditional
> stems. That is not a useful answer. What is traditional? My TTT
> Synthesis is farily traditional and it has more height than normal
> quill stems. Its about 2" of height. But the Technomic has far, far
> more than 2.5" of height on it. The Harris Cyclery description is
> worthless. Rivendell lists three different Tecnomic stems. Gives two
> different quill lengths, 190 and 225. Gives two different
> adjustability ranges, 152mm and 210mm. So figure 6" to 8.25" range of
> adjustability. From Min insertion line until the horizontal extension
> is touching the headset. Or maybe until the wedge hits the brake
> caliper bolt.
> http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/
> http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/16047.html
> http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/16120.html

Great comment, Russell. Rulers are nice too:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/TECHNOMI.JPG

p.s. on better bikes the butt in the column is your lower limit.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[ddog]

On Feb 28, 12:13 pm, "Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Phil Bailey wrote:
> > But even a fit kit would be deceptive, because until you rode with it
> > in different circumstances over time, the static fit may not be the
> > best fit.
>
> Good fitters don't blindly follow the numbers the FitKit spits out,
> they take into account the riders style, priorities and physical
> condition.

How do they take into account a half dozen riding styles and
conditions that you don't know how to verbalize? They must be just
averaging out known symptoms that may not have worked best, but didn't
have raging complaints.

2 different 'good' fitters may have 2 different solutions to the
different products they may sell. And some fits may have acclimation
periods to adjust to fit better, when the initial static fit will be
what fitters gravitate towards.

I would like to meet a 'good' fitter in person one day.

> > My brakes are like ABS
> > now, so I can't see them becoming too much more effective now.
>
> Can you come to a quick stop while braking from the tops of the
> hoods? That's where the "aero" levers come into their own.
>
> Braking from the drops is about equal, but the different internal
> geometry of "aero" levers results in much better braking from the
> hoods.

I like to be in prone position when using brakes, so I don't have a
chance in getting thrown over bars. There is nothing to hold you back
on top of drops. I'd rather be in ready position when braking.
Otherwise, I brake as little as possible. Its easier just to initially
grab brakes in down position, than to adjust position in a real
emergency.

> > I'm going to try to fix the Weinmann clamps since doesn't 'look' that
> > difficult to change with any 26mm clamp.
>
> There are no "26 mm" clamps. The 26 mm is the diameter of the bulge
> where the bars fit the stem.
>
> The brake clamps you want for aluminum bars are marked 23.8 (the ones
> you have are marked 22.2 for steel bars)
>
> If you have a helpful local bike shop, see if they have any in their
> junk piles. Many bike shops accumulate a lot of this older stuff when
> doing upright bar conversions on older bikes.

Thanks, as always, for the advice.

>
> Sheldon "Stop!" Brown
> +----------------------------------------------------------+
> | Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; |
> | but it is always the strongly marked feature of all |
> | religions established by law. |
> | Take away the law-establishment, and every religion |
> | re-assumes its original benignity. |
> | Thomas Paine -- The Rights of Man, 1791 |
> +----------------------------------------------------------+
> Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
> Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
> http://harriscyclery.com
> Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwidehttp://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[ddog]

On Feb 28, 12:23 pm, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
> > "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> After investigation, I thought would go to Nitto 26mm bars and Nitto
> >>> longer Stem instead of introducing threadless stem different company
> >>> componenet interface issues. Nitto quality was the biggest deciding
> >>> factor to change, as Sheldon suggested earlier, for my 1971 Raleigh
> >>> Supercourse.
> >>> 1. Looking for about 2" higher bars on stem, so are there different
> >>> heights are just one Nitto Technomic stem with different stem bar
> >>> depth reaches? Anyone know the range of bar height increase with this
> >>> stem?
> >> Sheldon's site answered question number one, 2.5" raised: perfect.
> [email protected] wrote:
> > Nitto Technomic stems have far, far, far, far more than 2.5" of
> > height. Harris Cyclery says about 2.5" higher than traditional
> > stems. That is not a useful answer. What is traditional? My TTT
> > Synthesis is farily traditional and it has more height than normal
> > quill stems. Its about 2" of height. But the Technomic has far, far
> > more than 2.5" of height on it. The Harris Cyclery description is
> > worthless. Rivendell lists three different Tecnomic stems. Gives two
> > different quill lengths, 190 and 225. Gives two different
> > adjustability ranges, 152mm and 210mm. So figure 6" to 8.25" range of
> > adjustability. From Min insertion line until the horizontal extension
> > is touching the headset. Or maybe until the wedge hits the brake
> > caliper bolt.
> >http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/
> >http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/16047.html
> >http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/16120.html
>
> Great comment, Russell. Rulers are nice too:http://www.yellowjersey.org/TECHNOMI.JPG
>
> p.s. on better bikes the butt in the column is your lower limit.
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks Andrew for informative picture.
So then 150mm above the head set lock nut must be Nitto echnomic 225
stem.

Great! Thanks for the valuable stick in the mud

 

[Ted Bennett]

"ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I like to be in prone position when using brakes, so I don't have a
> chance in getting thrown over bars. There is nothing to hold you back
> on top of drops. I'd rather be in ready position when braking.
> Otherwise, I brake as little as possible. Its easier just to initially
> grab brakes in down position, than to adjust position in a real
> emergency.

What sort of bike do you have that allows you to ride in a prone
position?

--
Ted Bennett

 

[ddog]

On Feb 28, 3:18 pm, Ted Bennett <[email protected]> wrote:
> "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I like to be in prone position when using brakes, so I don't have a
> > chance in getting thrown over bars. There is nothing to hold you back
> > on top of drops. I'd rather be in ready position when braking.
> > Otherwise, I brake as little as possible. Its easier just to initially
> > grab brakes in down position, than to adjust position in a real
> > emergency.
>
> What sort of bike do you have that allows you to ride in a prone
> position?
>
> --
> Ted Bennett

Ted,

That's my goal, but not there yet. I don't ride with my hands on the
brakes.
I utilize UPS right hand turn heuristic, and don't touch brakes unless
stop sign/red light.
And even then will turn right not to stop and loop around when clear
(usually).
Most of the time, I'm alternating between several high control hand
positions on handlebars or aerobars (pads allot);
and at anytime brakes can be grabbed with a simultaneous, within
reach, grab.

Keep my eye behind me with third eye always instead since ride on
right hand side of road.
Nothing's going to jump in front of me, but if going by cars entering
road, I won't mind getting in drops, depending on situation.
That would be extremely poor posture habits to hold one or even two
positions predominantly.
At least a little variation helps, and you can't do that only in the
drops or on the hoods position only.
And within about 1.3 seconds, full control braking vs being fatigued
in drops or hoods position.
What do you think is safer? Good posture is critical in everything you
do, especially biking.

Always riding with hands on brakes is like riding a car with 2 feet.
Either step on the gas or the brakes.
both are mutually exclusive imo.

Of course, YMMV.

 

[ddog]

On Feb 28, 9:38 am, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Feb 27, 6:30 pm, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 27, 7:23 pm, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > After investigation, I thought would go to Nitto 26mm bars and Nitto
> > > longer Stem instead of introducing threadless stem different company
> > > componenet interface issues. Nitto quality was the biggest deciding
> > > factor to change, as Sheldon suggested earlier, for my 1971 Raleigh
> > > Supercourse.
>
> > > 1. Looking for about 2" higher bars on stem, so are there different
> > > heights are just one Nitto Technomic stem with different stem bar
> > > depth reaches? Anyone know the range of bar height increase with this
> > > stem?
>
> > Sheldon's site answered question number one, 2.5" raised: perfect.
>
> Nitto Technomic stems have far, far, far, far more than 2.5" of
> height. Harris Cyclery says about 2.5" higher than traditional
> stems. That is not a useful answer. What is traditional? My TTT
> Synthesis is farily traditional and it has more height than normal
> quill stems. Its about 2" of height. But the Technomic has far, far
> more than 2.5" of height on it. The Harris Cyclery description is
> worthless. Rivendell lists three different Tecnomic stems. Gives two
> different quill lengths, 190 and 225. Gives two different
> adjustability ranges, 152mm and 210mm. So figure 6" to 8.25" range of
> adjustability. From Min insertion line until the horizontal extension
> is touching the headset. Or maybe until the wedge hits the brake
> caliper bolt.
>
> http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/hand...com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/16120.html- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Russellseaton1,

>From Andrew's Nitto stem historical range measures of the max height
being 150mm over lock nut (assume for 225mm stem),
150mm over my lock nut was about 2.5" greater than my maxed out 1971
Raleigh Supercourse. So that is what Sheldon carries, and may be the
greatest demanded stem.
I had just round house guessed 2" from holding stationary position
sitting on bike.

One optimization method is to go from lowest, usually stock, to the
greatest offered. Then, in between may be better calculated in greater
confidence rather than try every model
size out, unless you have a better way to pin point height.
But this seems like a height I will be able to hold the drops position
for relative indefinite period when required.
Since no one seems to like riding in drops positions for long periods,
from surveys, stock stems are probably an
extreme racing position unless you are shorter with long legs and fit
that style.

I feel strongly what is sold as 'relaxed' 2.5" higher position is a
more ergonomic 'standard' position for most people (except short
people with long legs).
Its not natural to hump over in an abdominal crunched position for
breathing, when the aero difference is negligible, and in fact you can
bend lower easier when not
forced to take that unnatural position 100% of time.

Thanks for the heads up. This information may not have never been
revealed otherwise without your observation.

 

[Hank Wirtz]

On Feb 27, 8:03 pm, "Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Nitto Technomics are all the same height, come with different reaches.

IIRC, Technomics are all 225mm high, but Technomic Deluxes are 190mm.

 

[ddog]

On Feb 28, 6:50 pm, "Hank Wirtz" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Feb 27, 8:03 pm, "Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Nitto Technomics are all the same height, come with different reaches.
>
> IIRC, Technomics are all 225mm high, but Technomic Deluxes are 190mm.

The Deluxe one that's 1.1" over standard says clearly, "As with all of
our stems, once it has been inserted into a bike and scratched up, NO
RETURNS!"

The two Non-Deluxe that are 2.5" over standard height do not. Just
from my 2" eyeball static simulation and ad evidence above, my money
is on the Non-Deluxe, lol.
Oh yeah, the Power of Sheldon too.

 

[ddog]

On Feb 28, 7:20 pm, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Feb 28, 6:50 pm, "Hank Wirtz" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 27, 8:03 pm, "Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Nitto Technomics are all the same height, come with different reaches.
>
> > IIRC, Technomics are all 225mm high, but Technomic Deluxes are 190mm.
>
> The Deluxe one that's 1.1" over standard says clearly, "As with all of
> our stems, once it has been inserted into a bike and scratched up, NO
> RETURNS!"
>
> The two Non-Deluxe that are 2.5" over standard height do not. Just
> from my 2" eyeball static simulation and ad evidence above, my money
> is on the Non-Deluxe, lol.
> Oh yeah, the Power of Sheldon too.

Well, with closer reach/drop position Nitto 176 bars selected 40mm
wide and increased 2.5" high of Technomics, most every thing cancelled
out on drops and main level bar, except for rise. So the determining
factor for me on stem depth was my aerobars where my ratchet shifters
will also be. After reading Peter Whites logical 'fit' paper on his
site, I figured while going up, I would reach out as far as
comfortably possible: and was too crunched in now anyway. So I had
figured up to 150mm stem reach (or 2" outward while going up 2.5" from
stem too, since had 1cm that I could center my seat forward. But since
130 is max stem, will not move seat forward which is good, because
feels great at this combination of adjustments anyway.

So I'm going for the higher altitude lifting Superman profile. Its a
bird... no its a plane... no its Fat Phil out spinning again
Bicycle ergo nirvana.