No Charges for Lance

[lance_armstrong]

There's something very fishy going on here. I don't think this thing is going to go away completely.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/did-u-s-attorneys-disagree-on-whether-to-close-armstrong-u-s-postal-case

 

[lance_armstrong]

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter .


We build up our hero's so we can knock them on their.... behinds. Very few people make it through life without some questionable activity. I am NOT saying that means Lance or anyone else doped. I am saying it doesn't matter. We expect our hero's to be human, a questionable mark, just keeps Lance in the "only human" category.

Very few people make it through life without some questionable activity? That's pretty insulting to most people, who do go through life without engaging in questionable activity. Most people go their entire lives without screwing other people over. Most people don't cheat at a professional level. You can't compare sports fraud and doping to a weekend golfer who shaves a few strokes off his card to make himself feel better. Maybe you're trying to rationalize your own behavior?

 

[Dave Cutter]

Originally Posted by lance_armstrong .
Maybe you're trying to rationalize your own behavior?

You think I am insulting humanity? I didn't mean to insult anyone by calling them human or by implying that humans aren't perfect beings (which they aren't). Perfect being are normally called Gods. But then Gods can determine which wrong is OK and which wrong is... wrong. So you may be better at placing blame than me.

I didn't rationalize... or did I understand that this thread was about confessing our own transgressions. I have far too many for this kind of a format. But it is nice to know that there are those who walk among us (like yourself).... that are without sin.

I don't know what Lance may or may not have done. I do know he is human... and one heck of a cyclist. That's all that matters.

 

[tonyzackery]

Cue the music, please...LOL!

Look in my eyes, what do you see?
the Cult of Personality
I know your anger, I know your dreams
I've been everything you wanna be ohhh…
I'm the Cult of Personality
Like Mussolini and Kennedy
I'm the Cult of Personality
the Cult of Personality
the Cult of Personality

Neon lights, Nobel Prize
When a leader speaks, the reflection lies
You won't have to follow me
Only you can set me free

I sell the things you need to be
I'm the smiling face of your T.V. ohh…
I'm the Cult of Personality
I exploit you; still you love me
I tell you one and one makes three ohh…
I'm the Cult of Personality
Like Joseph Stalin and Gandhi ohh…
I'm the Cult of Personality
the Cult of Personality
the Cult of Personality

Neon lights, Nobel Prize
When a leader speaks, that leader dies
You won't have to follow me
Only you can set you free

(Guitar solo)

You gave me fortune, you gave me fame
You gave me power in your God's name
I'm every person you need to be ohh…
I'm, the, Cult, of, Per, Son, Al, Ity

I am the Cult of (x8)
Personality

 

[CAMPYBOB]

No one expects...The Spanish Inquisition!

 

[lance_armstrong]

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter .


You think I am insulting humanity? I didn't mean to insult anyone by calling them human or by implying that humans aren't perfect beings (which they aren't). Perfect being are normally called Gods. But then Gods can determine which wrong is OK and which wrong is... wrong. So you may be better at placing blame than me.

I didn't rationalize... or did I understand that this thread was about confessing our own transgressions. I have far too many for this kind of a format. But it is nice to know that there are those who walk among us (like yourself).... that are without sin.

I don't know what Lance may or may not have done. I do know he is human... and one heck of a cyclist. That's all that matters.

Please stop pretending to be so dense. Everyone makes mistakes. A mistake is unintentional. Cheating is not making a mistake. Cheating requires the mental state of knowing that what you're about to do is wrong. Cheating at a professional level, knowing that your actions will impact sponsors and millions of fans goes much further than that. Even worse is systematic cheating, which entails an organized collaboration of efforts by more than one individual to commit sporting fraud. You really can't believe that most people on earth consistently cheat, especially at the level we're talking about here. You have the right to pick your heroes, but don't act like everyone is dishonest to make yourself feel better about the one you have.

You should read the post by tonyzackery. It might give you some perspective.

 

[sitzmark]

The sad fact is that "competitive advantage" or "creativity" is rampant in all sports, business, and politics. It always has been. Successfully competing in cycling seems to be an anomaly without out it. As we all know cycling isn't alone when it comes to PEDs.

There have been motorsports teams "enhancing" component designs, doctoring fuel, making post qualification adjustments, etc. Even when I raced quarter midgets at the age of 7-11 in the 60's, father/ child (mostly boys) teams were spending hundreds and thousands of dollars to cheat. My father and I didn't, but we didn't win as much as other teams. Still pulled off a couple of selective regional titles, but at the national level we were blown away. That was the training ground for moving up the ranks. Cheating is still a part of professional racing, but much harder to get away with.

Sports teams have creatively bugged opponents locker rooms, "messed with opponents minds" by altering HVAC systems in the locker room to produce uncomfortable conditions ... the "creativity" never ends. Used to be crowd disruption was penalized - now it's a central part of the game. I weight trained with NCAA b-ball athletes at a major southern university. The focus was on building strength to throw more powerful elbows to move opponents out of position ... or to retaliate for an elbow thrown by an opponent.

I'm all for stamping out "competitive advantage" but not to acknowledge what is going on is naive. Professional level sports aren't a concern of mine -they aren't my heros - really more about money and business than sport. Doesn't bother me "as much". Amateur level sports is where the biggest disgrace is ... where people should be competing for the love of sport. That said, out of those ranks come the professionals and only a very select few make it through the system to professional levels. Not just the athletes are at fault.

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter .

I don't know what Lance may or may not have done.

Me neither.

I hope for all the beating he's taken in the court of public opinion he actually is guilty. Sad to see someone burn at the stake who can't even produce a cantrip let alone foul a crop.

Still an amazing rider, who even as a nobody was able to ride away from the likes of Indurain and Ciappuchi.

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by oldbobcat .

Right. And the WADA investigation is still in progress, and the federal investigation will be sharing evidence.

Is this already happening? Last I hard was they had simply asked but not that the feds had yet agreed.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Eddie Merckx?
Erik Zabel?
Tyler Hamilton?
Jan Ullrich?
Rolf Aldag?
Alberto Contador?
Valverde?
Tommy Simpson?
Udo Boeltz?
Bert Dietz?
Christian Henn?
Floyd Landis?
The Chicken?
The Cobra?

The Butcher? The Baker? The Candlestick Maker?

Meh...a hellova lot of them dope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

If Lance doped, he simply beat a field loaded with doped dopers. And a couple of naive idealogues.

<cue the Lemond whining>

 

[limerickman]

I think the cycling followers/fans have made up there own minds at this point.

How many of the top grand tour riders from the 2000's have now been busted for doping?

Festina 1998 changed nothing apparently.

 

[dhk2]

Originally Posted by danfoz .



Is this already happening? Last I hard was they had simply asked but not that the feds had yet agreed.

Yes, that's what the director of WADA said in an interview on broadcast on BBC Hardtalk early this morning. He was quick to add that there was no investigation ongoing, but that "in the spirit of cooperation" they wanted governments to share information. John Fahey (sp?) also made it clear that the grand jury was investigating criminal conspiricy charges which is a quite different thing. It seemed he was disappointed the investigation was terminated after 20 months because he felt some of the key witnesses weren't called to testify.

Hope the Feds return a strong no to the request. It's not that I believe Lance never doped, but that all athletes are entitled to due process and legal rights from the doping authorities. If those are ignored, the whole worthy pursue of cheaters begins to resemble a witch hunt.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Festina 1998 changed nothing apparently.

Nope.

They still make crappy watches.

 

[limerickman]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .

Festina 1998 changed nothing apparently.

Nope.

They still make crappy watches.

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

 

[ambal]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .

Festina 1998 changed nothing apparently.

Nope.

They still make crappy watches.

They arn't that bad, most watchaholics I know would own one over a seiko any day.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Originally Posted by limerickman .


/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

I'm glad somebody got it! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

<baritone macho Spanish accented voice> Festeeeeena! Yourrrr time...yourrrr life.

 

[jhuskey]

Rumor is that Lance is not out of the woods yet. CAS is on the hunt.