No Hands Riding on Two Similar Bikes



C

Colin Campbell

Guest
Yes, I'm the one who started this silliness while writing about what I
did when it was too smoky to ride far.

I've gotten a lot better at riding no hands. But I have two bikes that
I ride alternately, and one is much easier to ride no hands than the
other. I'm wondering why?

My older bike is a 2003 Trek 5200. I substituted Campy Record
components for the original Ultegra parts, and swapped my Campy / DT
Swiss / Mavic 32-spoke wheels for the original Bontrager Race Lite
wheels. This bike weighs approx 19 3/4 pounds (or ~9 kg).

The newer bike is a 2006 Trek 5200. When I bought it, the shop made me
a pretty good deal, crediting me for the Ultegra parts and the saddle.
I bought Campy Record from them, supplied my own Flite saddle, and Trek
swapped the Bontrager Race Lite Shimano-compatible wheels for
Campy-compatible wheels at no charge. This bike is a bit over 1 pound
lighter (or ~8.5 kg).

The older bike is very stable when I sit up to ride hands free. Today,
I rode over 1.6 km (1 mile) hands free - more than once. The newer bike
is a lot twitchier. I've ridden it about 600 m hands free, on a
slightly uphill street. I've ridden it on level streets, and downhill
streets, too, but it seems to want to drift to the right, and to change
direction with each pedal stroke.

My hypothesis is that the lighter front wheel makes a difference, but I
haven't yet swapped front wheels to test the hypothesis.

Any other ideas?
 
L

Leo Lichtman

Guest
"Colin Campbell" wrote: Any other ideas?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Difference in trail?
 
O

Ozark Bicycle

Guest
On Nov 2, 7:00 pm, Colin Campbell <[email protected]> wrote:
> Yes, I'm the one who started this silliness while writing about what I
> did when it was too smoky to ride far.
>
> I've gotten a lot better at riding no hands. But I have two bikes that
> I ride alternately, and one is much easier to ride no hands than the
> other. I'm wondering why?
>
> My older bike is a 2003 Trek 5200. I substituted Campy Record
> components for the original Ultegra parts, and swapped my Campy / DT
> Swiss / Mavic 32-spoke wheels for the original Bontrager Race Lite
> wheels. This bike weighs approx 19 3/4 pounds (or ~9 kg).
>
> The newer bike is a 2006 Trek 5200. When I bought it, the shop made me
> a pretty good deal, crediting me for the Ultegra parts and the saddle.
> I bought Campy Record from them, supplied my own Flite saddle, and Trek
> swapped the Bontrager Race Lite Shimano-compatible wheels for
> Campy-compatible wheels at no charge. This bike is a bit over 1 pound
> lighter (or ~8.5 kg).
>
> The older bike is very stable when I sit up to ride hands free. Today,
> I rode over 1.6 km (1 mile) hands free - more than once. The newer bike
> is a lot twitchier. I've ridden it about 600 m hands free, on a
> slightly uphill street. I've ridden it on level streets, and downhill
> streets, too, but it seems to want to drift to the right, and to change
> direction with each pedal stroke.


Drifting to the right suggests an alignment problem. Have you checked
the fork and the frame for alignment?


>
> My hypothesis is that the lighter front wheel makes a difference, but I
> haven't yet swapped front wheels to test the hypothesis.
>
> Any other ideas?
 
M

Michael Press

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Colin Campbell <[email protected]> wrote:

> Yes, I'm the one who started this silliness while writing about what I
> did when it was too smoky to ride far.
>
> I've gotten a lot better at riding no hands. But I have two bikes that
> I ride alternately, and one is much easier to ride no hands than the
> other. I'm wondering why?
>
> My older bike is a 2003 Trek 5200. I substituted Campy Record
> components for the original Ultegra parts, and swapped my Campy / DT
> Swiss / Mavic 32-spoke wheels for the original Bontrager Race Lite
> wheels. This bike weighs approx 19 3/4 pounds (or ~9 kg).
>
> The newer bike is a 2006 Trek 5200. When I bought it, the shop made me
> a pretty good deal, crediting me for the Ultegra parts and the saddle.
> I bought Campy Record from them, supplied my own Flite saddle, and Trek
> swapped the Bontrager Race Lite Shimano-compatible wheels for
> Campy-compatible wheels at no charge. This bike is a bit over 1 pound
> lighter (or ~8.5 kg).
>
> The older bike is very stable when I sit up to ride hands free. Today,
> I rode over 1.6 km (1 mile) hands free - more than once. The newer bike
> is a lot twitchier. I've ridden it about 600 m hands free, on a
> slightly uphill street. I've ridden it on level streets, and downhill
> streets, too, but it seems to want to drift to the right, and to change
> direction with each pedal stroke.
>
> My hypothesis is that the lighter front wheel makes a difference, but I
> haven't yet swapped front wheels to test the hypothesis.
>
> Any other ideas?


Differences in
Head tube angle
Fork offset
Saddle tilt

--
Michael Press
 
L

Lou Holtman

Guest
Colin Campbell wrote:
> Yes, I'm the one who started this silliness while writing about what I
> did when it was too smoky to ride far.
>
> I've gotten a lot better at riding no hands. But I have two bikes that
> I ride alternately, and one is much easier to ride no hands than the
> other. I'm wondering why?
>
> My older bike is a 2003 Trek 5200. I substituted Campy Record
> components for the original Ultegra parts, and swapped my Campy / DT
> Swiss / Mavic 32-spoke wheels for the original Bontrager Race Lite
> wheels. This bike weighs approx 19 3/4 pounds (or ~9 kg).
>
> The newer bike is a 2006 Trek 5200. When I bought it, the shop made me
> a pretty good deal, crediting me for the Ultegra parts and the saddle. I
> bought Campy Record from them, supplied my own Flite saddle, and Trek
> swapped the Bontrager Race Lite Shimano-compatible wheels for
> Campy-compatible wheels at no charge. This bike is a bit over 1 pound
> lighter (or ~8.5 kg).
>
> The older bike is very stable when I sit up to ride hands free. Today,
> I rode over 1.6 km (1 mile) hands free - more than once. The newer bike
> is a lot twitchier. I've ridden it about 600 m hands free, on a
> slightly uphill street. I've ridden it on level streets, and downhill
> streets, too, but it seems to want to drift to the right, and to change
> direction with each pedal stroke.
>
> My hypothesis is that the lighter front wheel makes a difference, but I
> haven't yet swapped front wheels to test the hypothesis.
>
> Any other ideas?


I don't think that matters. Head tube angle, fork rake, headset
tightness make a difference and skill of course. I have six very
different bikes and I can ride no hand for miles, including turns if
traffic doesn't interfere. I grew up with bikes, because it was my major
way of transportation in my youth, like for everyone here in the
Netherlands.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu (http://www.nb.nu)
 
On Nov 3, 2:00 am, Colin Campbell <[email protected]> wrote:
> Yes, I'm the one who started this silliness while writing about what I
> did when it was too smoky to ride far.
>
> I've gotten a lot better at riding no hands. But I have two bikes that
> I ride alternately, and one is much easier to ride no hands than the
> other. I'm wondering why?
>
> My older bike is a 2003 Trek 5200. I substituted Campy Record
> components for the original Ultegra parts, and swapped my Campy / DT
> Swiss / Mavic 32-spoke wheels for the original Bontrager Race Lite
> wheels. This bike weighs approx 19 3/4 pounds (or ~9 kg).
>
> The newer bike is a 2006 Trek 5200. When I bought it, the shop made me
> a pretty good deal, crediting me for the Ultegra parts and the saddle.
> I bought Campy Record from them, supplied my own Flite saddle, and Trek
> swapped the Bontrager Race Lite Shimano-compatible wheels for
> Campy-compatible wheels at no charge. This bike is a bit over 1 pound
> lighter (or ~8.5 kg).
>
> The older bike is very stable when I sit up to ride hands free. Today,
> I rode over 1.6 km (1 mile) hands free - more than once. The newer bike
> is a lot twitchier. I've ridden it about 600 m hands free, on a
> slightly uphill street. I've ridden it on level streets, and downhill
> streets, too, but it seems to want to drift to the right, and to change
> direction with each pedal stroke.
>
> My hypothesis is that the lighter front wheel makes a difference, but I
> haven't yet swapped front wheels to test the hypothesis.
>
> Any other ideas?


On my road bike my regular wheels weigh about 1100g more than my
"climbing" wheels. The heavier wheels make riding no hands MUCH
easier. The bike is much less twitchy too. This is just from switching
the wheels.

A less than perfect headset adjustment could also contribute, and
cable length differences affecting how free the bars are to do there
thing.

Not to start another 200+ post thread about bike dynamics, but I think
BOTH wheels should be switched for a real test.

Joseph
 
A

Andrew Martin

Guest
On Nov 2, 10:46 pm, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Colin Campbell <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Yes, I'm the one who started this silliness while writing about what I
> > did when it was too smoky to ride far.

>
> > I've gotten a lot better at riding no hands. But I have two bikes that
> > I ride alternately, and one is much easier to ride no hands than the
> > other. I'm wondering why?

>
> > My older bike is a 2003 Trek 5200. I substituted Campy Record
> > components for the original Ultegra parts, and swapped my Campy / DT
> > Swiss / Mavic 32-spoke wheels for the original Bontrager Race Lite
> > wheels. This bike weighs approx 19 3/4 pounds (or ~9 kg).

>
> > The newer bike is a 2006 Trek 5200. When I bought it, the shop made me
> > a pretty good deal, crediting me for the Ultegra parts and the saddle.
> > I bought Campy Record from them, supplied my own Flite saddle, and Trek
> > swapped the Bontrager Race Lite Shimano-compatible wheels for
> > Campy-compatible wheels at no charge. This bike is a bit over 1 pound
> > lighter (or ~8.5 kg).

>
> > The older bike is very stable when I sit up to ride hands free. Today,
> > I rode over 1.6 km (1 mile) hands free - more than once. The newer bike
> > is a lot twitchier. I've ridden it about 600 m hands free, on a
> > slightly uphill street. I've ridden it on level streets, and downhill
> > streets, too, but it seems to want to drift to the right, and to change
> > direction with each pedal stroke.

>
> > My hypothesis is that the lighter front wheel makes a difference, but I
> > haven't yet swapped front wheels to test the hypothesis.

>
> > Any other ideas?

>
> Differences in
> Head tube angle
> Fork offset
> Saddle tilt
>
> --
> Michael Press- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


It's the same frame right? I think Trek has left things pretty much
the same for 2002-2006. The fork did change though, so that could be
it.

My guess - I bet the headset on your difficult bike is loose. If you
pull to one side consistently - Check Ozark's suggestion. The Trek
rear dropouts do have a bit of a history of coming loose.
 
On Nov 2, 7:00 pm, Colin Campbell <[email protected]> wrote:
> Yes, I'm the one who started this silliness while writing about what I
> did when it was too smoky to ride far.
>
> I've gotten a lot better at riding no hands. But I have two bikes that
> I ride alternately, and one is much easier to ride no hands than the
> other. I'm wondering why?
>
> My older bike is a 2003 Trek 5200. I substituted Campy Record
> components for the original Ultegra parts, and swapped my Campy / DT
> Swiss / Mavic 32-spoke wheels for the original Bontrager Race Lite
> wheels. This bike weighs approx 19 3/4 pounds (or ~9 kg).
>
> The newer bike is a 2006 Trek 5200. When I bought it, the shop made me
> a pretty good deal, crediting me for the Ultegra parts and the saddle.
> I bought Campy Record from them, supplied my own Flite saddle, and Trek
> swapped the Bontrager Race Lite Shimano-compatible wheels for
> Campy-compatible wheels at no charge. This bike is a bit over 1 pound
> lighter (or ~8.5 kg).
>
> The older bike is very stable when I sit up to ride hands free. Today,
> I rode over 1.6 km (1 mile) hands free - more than once. The newer bike
> is a lot twitchier. I've ridden it about 600 m hands free, on a
> slightly uphill street. I've ridden it on level streets, and downhill
> streets, too, but it seems to want to drift to the right, and to change
> direction with each pedal stroke.
>
> My hypothesis is that the lighter front wheel makes a difference, but I
> haven't yet swapped front wheels to test the hypothesis.
>
> Any other ideas?


Dear Colin,

Alas, you're just an innocent victim in what follows . . .

http://i10.tinypic.com/5xr5qia.jpg

The secret to no-hands riding is to attach the seat to the front
wheel, as shown in the illustration above from page 125 of Scott's
1889 "Cycling Art, Energy, and Locomotion":

http://books.google.com/books?id=rZ...locomotion&as_brr=1&ei=5VotR-XvL5SysgOdjbS6CQ

Part Two of the book begins on page 205 and is devoted to making fun
of increasingly bizarre bicycle patents--so bizarre that they demanded
RBT-style sarcasm even in 1889.

The combined bicycle and accordion patent speaks for itself, while the
spoke pattern on page 298 should draw disapproving remarks from both
JB and jb. Amazingly, the weird spoke pattern was used practically the
Oldreive monstrosity, allowing the rider to get inside the silly
thing:

http://i10.tinypic.com/4qdcq6x.jpg

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
 
D

David L. Johnson

Guest
Colin Campbell wrote:

> My hypothesis is that the lighter front wheel makes a difference, but I
> haven't yet swapped front wheels to test the hypothesis.
>
> Any other ideas?


Check to make sure that one of the cables, brake or shifter, isn't too
short (or too long, for that matter). It might be pulling on the bars
enough to push you to one side.

Either that, or it's an alignment issue.

--

David L. Johnson

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on
no account be allowed to do the job.
-- Douglas Adams
 
D

David L. Johnson

Guest
Colin Campbell wrote:

> My hypothesis is that the lighter front wheel makes a difference, but I
> haven't yet swapped front wheels to test the hypothesis.
>
> Any other ideas?


Check to make sure that one of the cables, brake or shifter, isn't too
short (or too long, for that matter). It might be pulling on the bars
enough to push you to one side.

Either that, or it's an alignment issue.

--

David L. Johnson

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on
no account be allowed to do the job.
-- Douglas Adams
 
D

David L. Johnson

Guest
Colin Campbell wrote:

> My hypothesis is that the lighter front wheel makes a difference, but I
> haven't yet swapped front wheels to test the hypothesis.
>
> Any other ideas?


Check to make sure that one of the cables, brake or shifter, isn't too
short (or too long, for that matter). It might be pulling on the bars
enough to push you to one side.

Either that, or it's an alignment issue.

--

David L. Johnson

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on
no account be allowed to do the job.
-- Douglas Adams