Nokian Break-in Period?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Bob Flumere, Jan 22, 2003.

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  1. Bob Flumere

    Bob Flumere Guest

    I am the proud owner of a pair of new Nokia 256 "Extreme" studded snow tires.

    The tag on them suggests 30 miles of riding on the road as a break-in period. I thought that perhaps
    the stud casings needed to be worn down to expose the carbide tips, but the spike tips are already
    quite proud of the casings. Also, the studs all seem to be well seated into the holes in the tire.

    I really don't want to expose my mountain bike to the road salt that is on all of our roads here in
    MA. if I can avoid it.

    Anybody have any comments, tips or ideas why the break-in period?

    Bob Flumere [email protected] Riding the frozen trails here in MA. almost every day.

    [email protected]
     
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  2. Edward Dike

    Edward Dike Guest

    "Bob Flumere" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    |
    | I am the proud owner of a pair of new Nokia 256 "Extreme" studded snow tires.
    |
    | The tag on them suggests 30 miles of riding on the road as a break-in period. I thought that
    | perhaps the stud casings needed to be worn down to expose the carbide tips, but the spike tips are
    | already quite proud of the casings. Also, the studs all seem to be well seated into the holes in
    | the tire.
    |
    | I really don't want to expose my mountain bike to the road salt that is on all of our roads here
    | in MA. if I can avoid it.
    |
    | Anybody have any comments, tips or ideas why the break-in period?
    |
    | Bob Flumere [email protected] Riding the frozen trails here in MA. almost every day.
    |
    | [email protected]

    My guess is that the break in is to roughen/ effectively soften up the tread, but I don't know that
    for a fact.

    As I bought a pair on ebay(new, without any tags,etc), and have been trying them out the past few
    weeks, (no break-in; straight to lake ice...I have some concerns about the recommended break-in, and
    what pressures to use on
    ice... hard, cold, mirror smooth lake ice; The weather here in Mpls/ St Paul has caused several
    freeze/ thaw cycles on the surface to create the slickest lake surfaces I have seen. I am not
    sure if I had too great an expectation of the tires(296 Extreme), if they are critical of
    inflation pressures, or if it is the ice. But I find it nearly impossible to turn without
    skidding/ drifting. At one point while riding with a cross wind, I had to dismount, and turn the
    bike into the wind,as I could not sufficiently lean into the wind to maintain my heading, and
    the wind was turning/ slipping me down wind towards open water. I can almost keep the rear wheel
    continuously spinning through 2 complete crank revolutions as I accelerate from a stop. However,
    when I rode near the shoreline, through what little snow there is on the ice-1/2 to 1", they act
    like a mountain bike on smooth, heavy soil, very docile, and predictable.As there is currently
    no snow on the ground, I have yet to experience the tires on the local snowmobile trails. My
    brief experiences on the road suggest they are not suitable for smooth pavement. Asphalt is
    slippery, and noisy, almost like a wheel with low tire pressure that skids out in a turn. I
    think smooth concrete would be hazardous, and steel plates, etc would be much worse.

    I too would like to learn of the experiences of others. ED3
     
  3. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Bob Flumere writes:

    > I am the proud owner of a pair of new Nokia 256 "Extreme" studded snow tires. The tag on them
    > suggests 30 miles of riding on the road as a break-in period. I thought that perhaps the stud
    > casings needed to be worn down to expose the carbide tips, but the spike tips are already quite
    > proud of the casings. Also, the studs all seem to be well seated into the holes in the tire.

    If they give no explanation for the break-in, I would take that as a few grains of road salt and
    chuck it over my shoulder for good luck. This sounds like BS to me.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  4. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "Bob Flumere" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > I am the proud owner of a pair of new Nokia 256 "Extreme" studded snow tires.
    >
    > The tag on them suggests 30 miles of riding on the road as a break-in period. I thought that
    > perhaps the stud casings needed to be worn down to expose the carbide tips, but the spike tips are
    > already quite proud of the casings. Also, the studs all seem to be well seated into the holes in
    > the tire.
    >
    > I really don't want to expose my mountain bike to the road salt that is on all of our roads here
    > in MA. if I can avoid it.
    >
    > Anybody have any comments, tips or ideas why the break-in period?

    My guess is that the break-in period is to seat the studs in the rubber. I know there's a shoulder
    on the stud (http://www.enteract.com/~icebike/images/dobsonstuds.jpg), but I doubt that the recess
    in the tire has a matching groove (I don't see how it could be molded). I think that after a few
    hours of the stud wiggling under load in the tire cavity, the edges of the shoulder will bite into
    the rubber. High tangential forces before then could pull the stud out of the tire.
     
  5. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "Edward Dike, III" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > As I bought a pair on ebay(new, without any tags,etc), and have been trying them out the past few
    > weeks, (no break-in; straight to lake ice...I have some concerns about the recommended break-in,
    > and what pressures to use on
    > ice... hard, cold, mirror smooth lake ice; The weather here in Mpls/ St Paul has caused several
    > freeze/ thaw cycles on the surface to create the slickest lake surfaces I have seen. I am not
    > sure if I had too great an expectation of the tires(296 Extreme), if they are critical of
    > inflation pressures, or if it is the ice. But I find it nearly impossible to turn without
    > skidding/ drifting. At one point while riding with a cross wind, I had to dismount, and turn
    > the bike into the wind,as I could not sufficiently lean into the wind to maintain my heading,
    > and the wind was turning/ slipping me down wind towards open water. I can almost keep the rear
    > wheel continuously spinning through 2 complete crank revolutions as I accelerate from a stop.
    > However, when I rode near the shoreline, through what little snow there is on the ice-1/2 to
    > 1", they act like a mountain bike on smooth, heavy soil, very docile, and predictable.As there
    > is currently no snow on the ground, I have yet to experience the tires on the local snowmobile
    > trails.

    I don't think there is any advantage to studded tires on snow. My experience with them on ice has
    been very different. I find that I can climb well on icy surfaces, better than on loose surfaces in
    the summer. It doesn't take much loose powder to "float" the studs though, completely defeating
    their effectiveness.

    > My brief experiences on the road suggest they are not suitable for smooth pavement. Asphalt is
    > slippery, and noisy, almost like a wheel with low tire pressure that skids out in a turn. I think
    > smooth concrete would be hazardous, and steel plates, etc would be much worse.

    I have ridden studs extensively on asphalt, as I use them on fast club rides. I haven't found any
    particular problem with them being slippery. They are a bit noisy, making a buzzing sound very much
    like static. I like the sound, particularly when you corner them hard and they make a sound more
    like popping bubble pack. Concrete and steel might be somewhat slippery, concrete roads are pretty
    rare around here, so I haven't had a lot of experience, but I haven't noticed anything
    extraordinary in the few encounters I've had with brief stretches of concrete road, off-road slick
    rock or steel decking.
     
  6. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    > "Bob Flumere" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > I am the proud owner of a pair of new Nokia 256 "Extreme" studded snow tires.
    > >
    > > The tag on them suggests 30 miles of riding on the road as a break-in period. I thought that
    > > perhaps the stud casings needed to be worn down to expose the carbide tips, but the spike tips
    > > are already quite proud of the casings. Also, the studs all seem to be well seated into the
    > > holes in the tire.
    > >
    > > I really don't want to expose my mountain bike to the road salt that is on all of our roads here
    > > in MA. if I can avoid it.
    > >
    > > Anybody have any comments, tips or ideas why the break-in period?

    "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:D[email protected]...
    > My guess is that the break-in period is to seat the studs in the rubber. I know there's a shoulder
    > on the stud (http://www.enteract.com/~icebike/images/dobsonstuds.jpg), but I doubt
    that
    > the recess in the tire has a matching groove (I don't see how it could be molded). I think that
    > after a few hours of the stud wiggling under load in
    the
    > tire cavity, the edges of the shoulder will bite into the rubber. High tangential forces before
    > then could pull the stud out of the tire.

    Both IRC and Nokian mold the tread with a recessed opening for the stud that's T-shaped in cross
    section. It's easy to "see how it could be molded". The mold includes a protrusion that looks like a
    nail head . That is of course the shape of the stud, too. Rubber is plenty flexible enough for that.
    Pull out a stud and replace it - it isn't hard to do.

    But I still don't see a reason for "break-in" except maybe the rider's software.

    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  7. I think that at least in a case of Nokian Extreme 296 you will need this "brake-in" period also to
    expose the tungsten carbide pins out from the steel body of the stud. If you look the Nokias site
    http://www.nokiantyres.com/bike/winter/index.html and compere the Extreme between the HAKKA WXC300
    or REDDIE'S REVENZ 336 you will see that in those tyres the tungsten carbide pin is already exposed
    and sharp. Without the "brake-in" period in some hard surface the Extreme will not have as good
    traction on ice as it could have.

    I have used Nokian Extreme three winters mostly for commuting, many mails on bare asphalt . The
    studs do not show any significant wear.

    Jussi Mikkola

    Bob Flumere wrote:

    > I am the proud owner of a pair of new Nokia 256 "Extreme" studded snow tires.
    >
    > The tag on them suggests 30 miles of riding on the road as a break-in period. I thought that
    > perhaps the stud casings needed to be worn down to expose the carbide tips, but the spike tips are
    > already quite proud of the casings. Also, the studs all seem to be well seated into the holes in
    > the tire.
    >
    > I really don't want to expose my mountain bike to the road salt that is on all of our roads here
    > in MA. if I can avoid it.
    >
    > Anybody have any comments, tips or ideas why the break-in period?
    >
    > Bob Flumere [email protected] Riding the frozen trails here in MA. almost every day.
    >
    > [email protected]
     
  8. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:D[email protected]...
    > > My guess is that the break-in period is to seat the studs in the rubber. I know there's a
    > > shoulder on the stud (http://www.enteract.com/~icebike/images/dobsonstuds.jpg), but I doubt
    > that
    > > the recess in the tire has a matching groove (I don't see how it could be molded). I think that
    > > after a few hours of the stud wiggling under load in
    > the
    > > tire cavity, the edges of the shoulder will bite into the rubber. High tangential forces before
    > > then could pull the stud out of the tire.
    >
    >
    > Both IRC and Nokian mold the tread with a recessed opening for the stud that's T-shaped in cross
    > section. It's easy to "see how it could be molded". The mold includes a protrusion that looks like
    > a nail head . That is of course the shape of the stud, too. Rubber is plenty flexible enough for
    > that. Pull out a stud and replace it - it isn't hard to do.
    >
    > But I still don't see a reason for "break-in" except maybe the rider's software.

    From Nokian web site: http://www.nokiantyres.com/bike/tech/index.html

    "TUNGSTEN CARBIDE STUDS -Tungsten Carbide stud pins, developed for passenger car studs, last for
    years and give great traction on ice and hardpacked snow. Avoid cheap steel imitations, which last
    10 times less! -Light coldforged Aluminum body on high-end DH & XC studs (Freddie's & Hakka WXC).
    IMPORTANT! Brake-in advise for Nokian studded tyres:
    1.Ride for approx. 50km (30miles) on road surfaces. 2.Avoid rapid acceleration and braking. 3.Only
    careful brake-in will ensure that the tyres and studs are optimized. (You still might loose couple
    of studs during the normal use due to great friction, but that won't effect on tyre performance)."

    The above implies that the risk of not breaking in properly is loss of studs. I know that was a
    reported problem with the Hakka WXC at one point. Even if the molded recess has a "T" cross section,
    it seems the studs still need to seat themselves, perhaps the shoulder on the recess isn't quite as
    deep as the head of the stud and wears in to the rubber a bit.
     
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