Non-cooked, simple food is healthiest

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by [email protected], Mar 10, 2006.

  1. Doug Kanter wrote:

    > The original Moosewood cookbook, a "vegetarian classic" from the late 1960s,
    > was loaded with cheese and milk in its recipes, as sources of protein and
    > variety in taste. Probably contributed to quite a few early deaths.



    I still have my original Moosewood Cookbook. The binding is shot, but I
    won't replace it because I love that index arranged by how to use
    particular ingredients. Later editions had a more ordinary (and less
    useful) index.


    I love the cookbook and use it all the time. Other vegetarian classics
    chock full of eggs, butter and cheese are the Anna Thomas Vegetarian
    Epicure Books, the other Moosewood books and Mollie Katzen's others. I
    adore those books, learned to cook with them practically.


    For me, they were positive experiences. I didn't grow up liking
    vegetables, but those early vegetarian cookbooks got me experimenting
    and liking lots of the new (new to me) foods. Maybe the first time I
    ate asparagus was in a pureed soup with cheese and cream, but at least
    it got me eating it. Now I think it is a treat just lightly cooked and
    with no sauce of any kind.


    Considering how meat-centered my childhood diet was, the trade for
    cheese and eggs was probably an equal one. I've never done the math,
    but I'd guess I was getting equal amounts of fats and proteins in those
    early vegetarian days.


    I don't remember those early vegetarian cookbooks as being marketed as a
    healthful alternative to meat-centered diets. I think that came later.
    Those early books were based on the Diet for A Small Planet idea that
    a vegetarian diet was better for feeding all the earth's peoples and the
    Laurel's Kitchen idea that being vegetarian was kinder to animals. All
    the vegetarians I know who have kept with it as a true life choice (as
    opposed to my way of doing it a few months or a few years at a time)
    have done it because of a discomfort with eating animals, not because of
    their personal health. (Contrast that with the vegans who are in it for
    themselves.) (In my experience with them.) The vegetarians I know love
    a meal based on eggs and dairy and compliment my cooking for it.


    --Lia
     


  2. Doug Kanter

    Doug Kanter Guest

    "Julia Altshuler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Doug Kanter wrote:
    >
    >> The original Moosewood cookbook, a "vegetarian classic" from the late
    >> 1960s, was loaded with cheese and milk in its recipes, as sources of
    >> protein and variety in taste. Probably contributed to quite a few early
    >> deaths.

    >
    >
    > I still have my original Moosewood Cookbook. The binding is shot, but I
    > won't replace it because I love that index arranged by how to use
    > particular ingredients. Later editions had a more ordinary (and less
    > useful) index.
    >
    >
    > I love the cookbook and use it all the time. Other vegetarian classics
    > chock full of eggs, butter and cheese are the Anna Thomas Vegetarian
    > Epicure Books, the other Moosewood books and Mollie Katzen's others. I
    > adore those books, learned to cook with them practically.
    >
    >
    > For me, they were positive experiences. I didn't grow up liking
    > vegetables, but those early vegetarian cookbooks got me experimenting and
    > liking lots of the new (new to me) foods. Maybe the first time I ate
    > asparagus was in a pureed soup with cheese and cream, but at least it got
    > me eating it. Now I think it is a treat just lightly cooked and with no
    > sauce of any kind.
    >
    >
    > Considering how meat-centered my childhood diet was, the trade for cheese
    > and eggs was probably an equal one. I've never done the math, but I'd
    > guess I was getting equal amounts of fats and proteins in those early
    > vegetarian days.
    >
    >
    > I don't remember those early vegetarian cookbooks as being marketed as a
    > healthful alternative to meat-centered diets. I think that came later.
    > Those early books were based on the Diet for A Small Planet idea that a
    > vegetarian diet was better for feeding all the earth's peoples and the
    > Laurel's Kitchen idea that being vegetarian was kinder to animals. All
    > the vegetarians I know who have kept with it as a true life choice (as
    > opposed to my way of doing it a few months or a few years at a time) have
    > done it because of a discomfort with eating animals, not because of their
    > personal health. (Contrast that with the vegans who are in it for
    > themselves.) (In my experience with them.) The vegetarians I know love a
    > meal based on eggs and dairy and compliment my cooking for it.
    >
    >
    > --Lia
    >


    I'm not disputing that the Moosewood stuff was tasty - it was (and still
    is - the restaurant's terrific). But, I do think that based on what we know
    today about fat, it depends too much on cheese. And, since low fat cheese is
    crap, whattya gonna do?
     
  3. Dave Smith

    Dave Smith Guest

    Peter Aitken wrote:

    >
    > >> OK, just to get you going again --haven't you heard that skin is really,
    > >> really, really, really bad for you?
    > >>

    > >
    > > They are??? There is a toxin in the eyes and in the greenish coloured
    > > skins
    > > of young potatoes, but I was under the impression that they were actually
    > > pretty good for you, and a quick Google search confirmed that.
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    > No comment about potato skins, but...
    >
    > Google searches confirm nothing. They turn up everything from the highest
    > quality information on university and government sites to the most
    > astounding dreck and twaddle published by flat-earthers, fundamentalists,
    > and other treacle-brains. You can find support for any hair-brained theory
    > by using Google. Unless you have the ability to evaluate the source of
    > information--which very few people do--it's pretty useless.


    That may be. One of the things that fascinates me about news groups is the
    number of people who argue and demand cites and then turn around and attempt to
    discredit the cites, and who never provide any cites to substantiate they own
    claims.

    Given the overwhelming number of cites Google turned up to suggest that potato
    skins are healthy, I will go by them, unless you have some books or scientific
    journals you can cite. Some books are full of crap too.
     
  4. Dave Smith

    Dave Smith Guest

    ~patches~ wrote:

    >
    > > Who are "most people"? I'd like to meet them. I'd also like to meet the
    > > person who eats baked potatoes without adding some butter, sour cream or
    > > even some other additions.

    >
    > I do when I'm sick. The insides of the potatoes calm my tummy when it's
    > upset. Plain boild potatoes do the same thing.


    And when I am perfectly healthy anything more than a small serving of potatoes
    tends to uspet my system. That is why I rarely eat potatoes, and only in small
    doses when I do.
     
  5. Doug Kanter wrote:

    > I'm not disputing that the Moosewood stuff was tasty -



    I wasn't disputing anything at all, just drifting on a theme.


    --Lia
     
  6. Mark Thorson

    Mark Thorson Guest

    Doug Kanter wrote:
    >
    > I'm not disputing that the Moosewood stuff was tasty - it was
    > (and still is - the restaurant's terrific). But, I do think that
    > based on what we know today about fat, it depends too much on
    > cheese. And, since low fat cheese is crap, whattya gonna do?


    A very nice olive oil. Or EVOO if you like being "hip".

    It's not as nice as cheese, if you are used to cheese,
    but after a while you get used to olive oil, and after
    that you may find real cheese to be too much fat. You
    may decide that you like genuine Parmesan cheese the
    best of all, because it is so flavorful and not at all
    "fatty" like many American and British and all French
    and German cheeses.

    At about the same time, you'll start drinking your
    whiskey straight (if it's good whiskey).

    And what other people think won't matter anymore,
    but I digress . . .
     
  7. Doug Kanter

    Doug Kanter Guest

    "Julia Altshuler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Doug Kanter wrote:
    >
    >> I'm not disputing that the Moosewood stuff was tasty -

    >
    >
    > I wasn't disputing anything at all, just drifting on a theme.
    >
    >
    > --Lia
    >


    Drifting...don't say that. It's still too cold to get my boat in the water.
     
  8. Doug Kanter

    Doug Kanter Guest

    "Mark Thorson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Doug Kanter wrote:
    >>
    >> I'm not disputing that the Moosewood stuff was tasty - it was
    >> (and still is - the restaurant's terrific). But, I do think that
    >> based on what we know today about fat, it depends too much on
    >> cheese. And, since low fat cheese is crap, whattya gonna do?

    >
    > A very nice olive oil. Or EVOO if you like being "hip".
    >
    > It's not as nice as cheese, if you are used to cheese,
    > but after a while you get used to olive oil, and after
    > that you may find real cheese to be too much fat. You
    > may decide that you like genuine Parmesan cheese the
    > best of all, because it is so flavorful and not at all
    > "fatty" like many American and British and all French
    > and German cheeses.
    >
    > At about the same time, you'll start drinking your
    > whiskey straight (if it's good whiskey).
    >
    > And what other people think won't matter anymore,
    > but I digress . . .


    I always drink whiskey straight. There's no other way, really.
     
  9. Doug Kanter wrote:

    > In a word: macrobiotics. Is that nonsense still floating around? Eggplant,
    > peppers and oranges contained too much Yang. OK.



    Alive and floating. A friend recently took a macro cruise to Italy with
    a number of others. (And I remember distinctly that oranges were yin,
    while eggplant and peppers were bad for being nightshades.)


    --Lia
     
  10. Doug Kanter

    Doug Kanter Guest

    "Julia Altshuler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Doug Kanter wrote:
    >
    >> In a word: macrobiotics. Is that nonsense still floating around?
    >> Eggplant, peppers and oranges contained too much Yang. OK.

    >
    >
    > Alive and floating. A friend recently took a macro cruise to Italy with a
    > number of others. (And I remember distinctly that oranges were yin, while
    > eggplant and peppers were bad for being nightshades.)
    >
    >
    > --Lia
    >


    OK...but I seem to recall that citrus was bad because of being too extreme
    in one way or the other.
     
  11. jay wrote:

    >On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:24:28 -0800, dkw12002 wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >>I eat potatoes without putting anything on them. I also eat cooked
    >>oatmeal without adding anything else. What you are describing is what I
    >>call the dog turd theory of food. If you start with a dog turd and add
    >>sugar, cinnamon and butter to it, it might be palatable. Could it be
    >>that some people really don't like potatoes, but just the stuff they
    >>put on it?
    >>
    >>"Most people" in this case are everyone posting here so far including
    >>you who are hostile to vegetarianism I guess and prefer nonsimple
    >>foods. Not a problem. I just like simple food best and think its better
    >>for me. I also do not cook unless heating oatmeal in the microwave is
    >>called cooking. I'm pretty healthy far as I know, too.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    >In regard to your turd theory.. have you checked into what a microwave may
    >do for you? If you really want to get into roulette.. do you drive a car?
    >
    >http://www.relfe.com/microwave.html
    >
    >I had my annual 5 year check up yesterday. The doctor I went to last time
    >died. I have never seen a ..veg.. that looked healthy. We used to hire
    >them but they always called in sick. What I like about the -veg- worst of
    >all is they are always trying to convert others. When they lose the
    >healthy argument they always "git going on PETA."
    >
    >Beef..it's what's for dinner.. <G>
    >
    >
    >

    I've come into this thread a bit late, but I can't resist adding that I
    used to have dealings with an offce that were in the habit of hiring as
    receptionsts young women of good family who were having a gap year
    between school and uni. (There's no such thing these days as an
    intelligent girl who leaves school at 16 to be an office junior.)

    Anyway, these girls tended to be vegetarians, it seems to be a common
    thing at that age. Two of them that I know of collapsed with anaemia
    caused by lack of iron in their diets. Being a vegetarian has its
    perils, I think it would involve quite a lot of care to ensure one was
    properly nourished - being a vegan would be very difficult indeed.

    Christine
     
  12. Doug Kanter

    Doug Kanter Guest

    "Old Mother Ashby" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > jay wrote:
    >
    >>On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:24:28 -0800, dkw12002 wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>I eat potatoes without putting anything on them. I also eat cooked
    >>>oatmeal without adding anything else. What you are describing is what I
    >>>call the dog turd theory of food. If you start with a dog turd and add
    >>>sugar, cinnamon and butter to it, it might be palatable. Could it be
    >>>that some people really don't like potatoes, but just the stuff they
    >>>put on it?
    >>>
    >>>"Most people" in this case are everyone posting here so far including
    >>>you who are hostile to vegetarianism I guess and prefer nonsimple
    >>>foods. Not a problem. I just like simple food best and think its better
    >>>for me. I also do not cook unless heating oatmeal in the microwave is
    >>>called cooking. I'm pretty healthy far as I know, too.
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >>In regard to your turd theory.. have you checked into what a microwave may
    >>do for you? If you really want to get into roulette.. do you drive a car?
    >>http://www.relfe.com/microwave.html
    >>
    >>I had my annual 5 year check up yesterday. The doctor I went to last time
    >>died. I have never seen a ..veg.. that looked healthy. We used to hire
    >>them but they always called in sick. What I like about the -veg- worst of
    >>all is they are always trying to convert others. When they lose the
    >>healthy argument they always "git going on PETA."
    >>Beef..it's what's for dinner.. <G>
    >>
    >>

    > I've come into this thread a bit late, but I can't resist adding that I
    > used to have dealings with an offce that were in the habit of hiring as
    > receptionsts young women of good family who were having a gap year between
    > school and uni. (There's no such thing these days as an intelligent girl
    > who leaves school at 16 to be an office junior.)
    >
    > Anyway, these girls tended to be vegetarians, it seems to be a common
    > thing at that age. Two of them that I know of collapsed with anaemia
    > caused by lack of iron in their diets. Being a vegetarian has its perils,
    > I think it would involve quite a lot of care to ensure one was properly
    > nourished - being a vegan would be very difficult indeed.
    >
    > Christine


    Spinach?
     
  13. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Guest

    Doug Kanter wrote:
    > "Old Mother Ashby" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >>jay wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:24:28 -0800, dkw12002 wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>I eat potatoes without putting anything on them. I also eat cooked
    >>>>oatmeal without adding anything else. What you are describing is what I
    >>>>call the dog turd theory of food. If you start with a dog turd and add
    >>>>sugar, cinnamon and butter to it, it might be palatable. Could it be
    >>>>that some people really don't like potatoes, but just the stuff they
    >>>>put on it?
    >>>>
    >>>>"Most people" in this case are everyone posting here so far including
    >>>>you who are hostile to vegetarianism I guess and prefer nonsimple
    >>>>foods. Not a problem. I just like simple food best and think its better
    >>>>for me. I also do not cook unless heating oatmeal in the microwave is
    >>>>called cooking. I'm pretty healthy far as I know, too.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>In regard to your turd theory.. have you checked into what a microwave may
    >>>do for you? If you really want to get into roulette.. do you drive a car?
    >>>http://www.relfe.com/microwave.html
    >>>
    >>>I had my annual 5 year check up yesterday. The doctor I went to last time
    >>>died. I have never seen a ..veg.. that looked healthy. We used to hire
    >>>them but they always called in sick. What I like about the -veg- worst of
    >>>all is they are always trying to convert others. When they lose the
    >>>healthy argument they always "git going on PETA."
    >>>Beef..it's what's for dinner.. <G>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>I've come into this thread a bit late, but I can't resist adding that I
    >>used to have dealings with an offce that were in the habit of hiring as
    >>receptionsts young women of good family who were having a gap year between
    >>school and uni. (There's no such thing these days as an intelligent girl
    >>who leaves school at 16 to be an office junior.)
    >>
    >>Anyway, these girls tended to be vegetarians, it seems to be a common
    >>thing at that age. Two of them that I know of collapsed with anaemia
    >>caused by lack of iron in their diets. Being a vegetarian has its perils,
    >>I think it would involve quite a lot of care to ensure one was properly
    >>nourished - being a vegan would be very difficult indeed.
    >>
    >>Christine

    >
    >
    > Spinach?
    >
    >



    Tomato sauce and/or beans cooked in a cast iron skillet is probably a
    better source. That's how Grandma got much of her iron.

    Bob
     
  14. [email protected] wrote:
    >>By the way, our family has been vegetarian and eating healthy for
    >>generations, but we have the usual share of family suffering

    >
    >
    > I have an ex who said he was vegetarian. Turned out later he lived on
    > Kit Kat bars.
    >
    > A good diet won't ensure you perfect health, but it helps. With your
    > list of woes, though, I'm pretty sure you're leaving something out.
    > Deep fat frying? Cream? Kit Kat Bars?
    >

    I am talking about extended family in India who live simple lives, buy
    their vegetables and fruits fresh, cook everyday using whole grains and
    don't eat out at all. My point is that it is simplistic to assume that
    just a good diet(even non-cooked, simple food :)) will ensure good
    health. Genetics, our reactions to stress, the amounts of food eaten,
    exercise, age, the environment all play a part in how our health is at
    any point of time. Eating well, I am sure helps; we eat reasonably
    healthy, low-fat vegetarian meals all the time. But, I am under no
    illusion that just by eating healthy we will be healthy all our lives.
    You are right, we cannot live on kitkat bars, but having it once in
    awhile won't harm you either.
     
  15. > I am talking about extended family in India who live simple lives, buy
    > their vegetables and fruits fresh, cook everyday using whole grains
    > and don't eat out at all.


    I apologize in advance for being ignorant; all I know of Indian food is
    what I find in restaurants, and it doesn't strike me as healthy. Yes,
    it's vegetarian, but it's also high in fat and sugar. Many dishes are
    deep-fried (I could live on samosas), and there's a reliance on dairy
    (ghee, milk, cheese). Don't even get me started on dessert: the ones
    that aren't solid sugar are made of coconut or sesame, right? AFAIK,
    those oils are one-way tickets to a heart attack.
     
  16. Dee Randall

    Dee Randall Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >> I am talking about extended family in India who live simple lives, buy
    >> their vegetables and fruits fresh, cook everyday using whole grains
    >> and don't eat out at all.

    >
    > I apologize in advance for being ignorant; all I know of Indian food is
    > what I find in restaurants, and it doesn't strike me as healthy. Yes,
    > it's vegetarian, but it's also high in fat and sugar. Many dishes are
    > deep-fried (I could live on samosas), and there's a reliance on dairy
    > (ghee, milk, cheese). Don't even get me started on dessert: the ones
    > that aren't solid sugar are made of coconut or sesame, right? AFAIK,
    > those oils are one-way tickets to a heart attack.
    >


    Life Expectancy - India
    http://www.plan-international.org/wherewework/asia/india/?view=textonly
    64 years -- I assume this includes male and female

    Life Expectancy - U.S.
    All races 77 years - both sexes

    It would be interesting to know what the life expectancy difference would be
    if all Indians were eating the same diet and had healthful living
    conditions; or a diet that the American-Indians eat.
    Dee Dee
     
  17. serene

    serene Guest

    On 10 Mar 2006 12:08:36 -0800, "salgud" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >[email protected] wrote:
    >> Why not do both..live a long time and enjoy life including eating. Food
    >> preference is just that. If you do not eat meat for a couple of weeks,
    >> it begins to smell rotten to you, for example.

    >
    >So why did my son, after giving up meat for over a year, go back to
    >eating it? He never said it smelled rotten.


    I was a vegetarian for 20 years, vegan for two of those, and I never
    stopped liking the smell of meat. And since I'm eating meat again
    these days, I obviously never stopped liking its taste.

    >If you want or like to eat a certain way, go ahead. But don't make up
    >silly stories to prognosticate to others. Why demonstrate your
    >insecurity about it by trying to get validation somehow by persuading
    >others to do the same? If you were really satisfied with your decision,
    >you wouldn't be here pushing your beliefs on others.


    Well put.

    serene, who makes her own choices about what to eat, and lets others
    make theirs
     
  18. serene

    serene Guest

    On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:02:26 -0600, "jmcquown"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >[email protected] wrote:
    >> Most people agree that a potato is good food until you fry it or mash
    >> it and add salt and butter and milk to it. Then it becomes high
    >> calorie, high fat and probably less healthy. It is better just
    >> microwaved, boiled or baked, period.
    >>

    >Who are "most people"? I'd like to meet them. I'd also like to meet the
    >person who eats baked potatoes without adding some butter, sour cream or
    >even some other additions.


    I love plain baked potatoes, but I also like them with yummy fatty
    stuff on them. If I were to guess, I'd say *most* people think fried
    potatoes are really really good, or fast-food restaurants would
    suddenly be serving plain baked potatoes with their double
    cheeseburgers.

    serene
     
  19. serene

    serene Guest

    On 10 Mar 2006 08:24:28 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

    >I eat potatoes without putting anything on them. I also eat cooked
    >oatmeal without adding anything else. What you are describing is what I
    >call the dog turd theory of food. If you start with a dog turd and add
    >sugar, cinnamon and butter to it, it might be palatable. Could it be
    >that some people really don't like potatoes, but just the stuff they
    >put on it?
    >
    >"Most people" in this case are everyone posting here so far including
    >you who are hostile to vegetarianism I guess and prefer nonsimple
    >foods. Not a problem.


    Not a problem until you start insulting people and saying that the way
    they like their food is because their food is dog turd.

    >I just like simple food best and think its better
    >for me. I also do not cook unless heating oatmeal in the microwave is
    >called cooking. I'm pretty healthy far as I know, too.


    Riddle me this: Why are you trolling a cooking group, then?

    serene
     
  20. [email protected] wrote:

    > > I am talking about extended family in India who live simple lives,

    > buy
    > > their vegetables and fruits fresh, cook everyday using whole grains
    > > and don't eat out at all.

    >
    > I apologize in advance for being ignorant; all I know of Indian food
    > is
    > what I find in restaurants, and it doesn't strike me as healthy. Yes,
    >
    > it's vegetarian, but it's also high in fat and sugar. Many dishes are
    >
    > deep-fried (I could live on samosas), and there's a reliance on dairy
    > (ghee, milk, cheese). Don't even get me started on dessert: the ones
    >
    > that aren't solid sugar are made of coconut or sesame, right? AFAIK,
    > those oils are one-way tickets to a heart attack.


    Just about any cultures food as exemplified by its restaurants is
    dramatically different than the food of the people.

    French and Chinese are classic examples of this but Indian fits very
    well also. And the more expensive the restaurant is the less likely it
    is to exemplify the food of the people of the culture it is
    representative of, except in the most general way.

    Both China and India have had for a very long time, much longer than the
    west, the concept of "fast food" street vendors selling quickly and
    easily prepared foods of the people, but once you get these cooks inside
    a building, they begin to tart up their food in order to attract a more
    select clientele.

    In the west the restaurant we know to day is of fairly recent
    development. And owes much to the French revolution.
    ---
    JL
     
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