Non-cooked, simple food is healthiest

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by [email protected], Mar 10, 2006.

  1. Dave Smith

    Dave Smith Guest

    Joseph Littleshoes wrote:

    >
    >
    > French and Chinese are classic examples of this but Indian fits very
    > well also. And the more expensive the restaurant is the less likely it
    > is to exemplify the food of the people of the culture it is
    > representative of, except in the most general way.
    >
    > Both China and India have had for a very long time, much longer than the
    > west, the concept of "fast food" street vendors selling quickly and
    > easily prepared foods of the people, but once you get these cooks inside
    > a building, they begin to tart up their food in order to attract a more
    > select clientele.
    >
    > In the west the restaurant we know to day is of fairly recent
    > development. And owes much to the French revolution.
    >


    There are lots of places in the world where a lot of people live in a room
    or small apartment without decent facilities for cooking. In places like
    that they get their food from food vendors. I know several people who have
    done the English teaching thing in the orient and they all got into the
    habit of eating out most of the time. One niece recently went to Korea where
    she says you can get a darned good meal for under $5. It's hardly worth
    cooking at home for that price. When large numbers of people are getting
    their food from the vendors and restaurants, it is safe to say that the food
    of the restaurants is the food of the people.
     


  2. serene

    serene Guest

    On 10 Mar 2006 09:07:39 -0800, [email protected]tincrisp.com wrote:

    >> haven't you heard that skin is really, really, really, really bad for you?

    >
    >Don't tell me I'm actually going to *learn* something in this thread.
    >
    >I thought potato skin was GOOD for you. Something about all the iron
    >and minerals in dirt working their way into the skin.


    The vitamins/minerals are concentrated in the skin, but so are the
    toxins. It's one of those deals where you just have to do what you
    like and know that you're missing something either way.

    serene
     
  3. Dave Smith

    Dave Smith Guest

    serene wrote:

    >
    > >
    > >I thought potato skin was GOOD for you. Something about all the iron
    > >and minerals in dirt working their way into the skin.

    >
    > The vitamins/minerals are concentrated in the skin, but so are the
    > toxins. It's one of those deals where you just have to do what you
    > like and know that you're missing something either way.


    There is selanum in the eyes and the green skin of potatoes. There no problem
    with the skin if more mature spuds.
     
  4. Doug Kanter

    Doug Kanter Guest

    "Dave Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > serene wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> >
    >> >I thought potato skin was GOOD for you. Something about all the iron
    >> >and minerals in dirt working their way into the skin.

    >>
    >> The vitamins/minerals are concentrated in the skin, but so are the
    >> toxins. It's one of those deals where you just have to do what you
    >> like and know that you're missing something either way.

    >
    > There is selanum in the eyes and the green skin of potatoes. There no
    > problem
    > with the skin if more mature spuds.
    >
    >


    I wonder if, by "toxins", she also meant the crap that's sprayed on them.
    Or, in the case of potatoes, the soil is fumigated.
     
  5. [email protected] wrote:
    >>I am talking about extended family in India who live simple lives, buy
    >>their vegetables and fruits fresh, cook everyday using whole grains
    >>and don't eat out at all.

    >
    >
    > I apologize in advance for being ignorant; all I know of Indian food is
    > what I find in restaurants, and it doesn't strike me as healthy. Yes,
    > it's vegetarian, but it's also high in fat and sugar. Many dishes are
    > deep-fried (I could live on samosas), and there's a reliance on dairy
    > (ghee, milk, cheese). Don't even get me started on dessert: the ones
    > that aren't solid sugar are made of coconut or sesame, right? AFAIK,
    > those oils are one-way tickets to a heart attack.
    >


    I understand - if you think of Indian food as you find in restaurants in
    the US. They are pretty badly made and greasy to boot. I am just talking
    of everyday fare that is simple Indian food - steamed vegetables,
    dhal(lentils), chapatis, plain rice, fresh fruit. The stuff you get in
    restaurants here is usually North Indian banquet fare in India, hardly
    eaten at homes all the time. When we were growing up, oil and sugar were
    rationed to households, I don't remember the amount that each
    ration-cardholder got, but I remember my mother had to plan carefully to
    not run out.
     
  6. Doug Kanter

    Doug Kanter Guest

    "Kamala Ganesh" <[email protected]VALID.ADDRESS> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > [email protected] wrote:
    >>>I am talking about extended family in India who live simple lives, buy
    >>>their vegetables and fruits fresh, cook everyday using whole grains
    >>>and don't eat out at all.

    >>
    >>
    >> I apologize in advance for being ignorant; all I know of Indian food is
    >> what I find in restaurants, and it doesn't strike me as healthy. Yes,
    >> it's vegetarian, but it's also high in fat and sugar. Many dishes are
    >> deep-fried (I could live on samosas), and there's a reliance on dairy
    >> (ghee, milk, cheese). Don't even get me started on dessert: the ones
    >> that aren't solid sugar are made of coconut or sesame, right? AFAIK,
    >> those oils are one-way tickets to a heart attack.
    >>

    >
    > I understand - if you think of Indian food as you find in restaurants in
    > the US. They are pretty badly made and greasy to boot. I am just talking
    > of everyday fare that is simple Indian food - steamed vegetables,
    > dhal(lentils), chapatis, plain rice, fresh fruit. The stuff you get in
    > restaurants here is usually North Indian banquet fare in India, hardly
    > eaten at homes all the time. When we were growing up, oil and sugar were
    > rationed to households, I don't remember the amount that each
    > ration-cardholder got, but I remember my mother had to plan carefully to
    > not run out.


    Oh no. Are you saying we've raped Indian cuisine here, in the same way we've
    turned Chinese food into something never ever seen in China?
     
  7. Dave Smith wrote:

    > Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >
    > > French and Chinese are classic examples of this but Indian fits very

    >
    > > well also. And the more expensive the restaurant is the less likely

    > it
    > > is to exemplify the food of the people of the culture it is
    > > representative of, except in the most general way.
    > >
    > > Both China and India have had for a very long time, much longer than

    > the
    > > west, the concept of "fast food" street vendors selling quickly and
    > > easily prepared foods of the people, but once you get these cooks

    > inside
    > > a building, they begin to tart up their food in order to attract a

    > more
    > > select clientele.
    > >
    > > In the west the restaurant we know to day is of fairly recent
    > > development. And owes much to the French revolution.
    > >

    >
    > There are lots of places in the world where a lot of people live in a
    > room
    > or small apartment without decent facilities for cooking. In places
    > like
    > that they get their food from food vendors. I know several people who
    > have
    > done the English teaching thing in the orient and they all got into
    > the
    > habit of eating out most of the time. One niece recently went to Korea
    > where
    > she says you can get a darned good meal for under $5. It's hardly
    > worth
    > cooking at home for that price. When large numbers of people are
    > getting
    > their food from the vendors and restaurants, it is safe to say that
    > the food
    > of the restaurants is the food of the people.


    I expressed myself poorly. There are the equivalent of authentic street
    vendors in buildings and no longer mobil 'street vendors'. That sell
    good food at a good price and are primarily patronized by students and
    the working class, some of these are real dives with bad food very
    cheap. In my experience i am more likely to get bad food at a high end
    restaurant than i am at a 'dive'. It has been my experience that a lot
    more of the prestige type restaurants are more about being there, almost
    as theater, than it is about dinning or even eating. There are of
    course exceptions to this rule. Chez Paneese in Berkeley and i am told 1
    Market in SF are very up scale expensive places but the food is superb.
    And in the Michelin system one earns a star or 2 more with the food than
    the d├ęcor.

    I once ate at a French restaurant in SF that had Picasso's on the wall
    Baccarat Crystal on the table with silver and porcelain, aubousson
    carpets on the floor and a profusion of antiques and tromp l' oile
    (sp?) decoration all very lovely and elegant but the food was awful,
    however people did not really go there to eat or for nutrition.

    Now Maxwell's Plum was great, equally elegant (at least IMO) yet not
    pretentious and very good food.

    Whatever end of the spectrum one comes from, in restaurants there is
    always that subtle quality of it not being "home cooking" this home
    cooking seems to be of a quality that is rarely if ever duplicated in
    commercial establishments, but if there at all is more likely to be at
    the lower (economic) end of the spectrum. Though i expect people to
    argue this point, that the high end places couldn't exist if the food
    was not superb, and in many cases it is but it is still just that much
    further from the aforementioned 'home cooking' or 'food of the people',
    the local ethnic cuisine unencumbered by fad, fashion or economics.
    ---
    JL
     
  8. Doug Kanter wrote:

    > "Kamala Ganesh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > [email protected] wrote:
    > >>>I am talking about extended family in India who live simple lives,

    > buy
    > >>>their vegetables and fruits fresh, cook everyday using whole grains

    >
    > >>>and don't eat out at all.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> I apologize in advance for being ignorant; all I know of Indian

    > food is
    > >> what I find in restaurants, and it doesn't strike me as healthy.

    > Yes,
    > >> it's vegetarian, but it's also high in fat and sugar. Many dishes

    > are
    > >> deep-fried (I could live on samosas), and there's a reliance on

    > dairy
    > >> (ghee, milk, cheese). Don't even get me started on dessert: the

    > ones
    > >> that aren't solid sugar are made of coconut or sesame, right?

    > AFAIK,
    > >> those oils are one-way tickets to a heart attack.
    > >>

    > >
    > > I understand - if you think of Indian food as you find in

    > restaurants in
    > > the US. They are pretty badly made and greasy to boot. I am just

    > talking
    > > of everyday fare that is simple Indian food - steamed vegetables,
    > > dhal(lentils), chapatis, plain rice, fresh fruit. The stuff you get

    > in
    > > restaurants here is usually North Indian banquet fare in India,

    > hardly
    > > eaten at homes all the time. When we were growing up, oil and sugar

    > were
    > > rationed to households, I don't remember the amount that each
    > > ration-cardholder got, but I remember my mother had to plan

    > carefully to
    > > not run out.

    >
    > Oh no. Are you saying we've raped Indian cuisine here, in the same way
    > we've
    > turned Chinese food into something never ever seen in China?


    Not quite yet, not completely but were getting there.
    ---
    JL
     
  9. Default User

    Default User Guest

    Dee Randall wrote:


    > Life Expectancy - India
    > http://www.plan-international.org/wherewework/asia/india/?view=textonl
    > y 64 years -- I assume this includes male and female
    >
    > Life Expectancy - U.S.
    > All races 77 years - both sexes
    >
    > It would be interesting to know what the life expectancy difference
    > would be if all Indians were eating the same diet and had healthful
    > living conditions; or a diet that the American-Indians eat. Dee Dee


    Medical care, especially for children, is a far more important
    determiner of average life expectency.



    Brian

    --
    If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
    won't shut up.
    -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)
     
  10. Doug Weller

    Doug Weller Guest

    On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:17:37 -0800, in rec.food.cooking, serene wrote:

    >On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:02:26 -0600, "jmcquown"
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>d[email protected] wrote:
    >>> Most people agree that a potato is good food until you fry it or mash
    >>> it and add salt and butter and milk to it. Then it becomes high
    >>> calorie, high fat and probably less healthy. It is better just
    >>> microwaved, boiled or baked, period.
    >>>

    >>Who are "most people"? I'd like to meet them. I'd also like to meet the
    >>person who eats baked potatoes without adding some butter, sour cream or
    >>even some other additions.

    >
    >I love plain baked potatoes, but I also like them with yummy fatty
    >stuff on them. If I were to guess, I'd say *most* people think fried
    >potatoes are really really good, or fast-food restaurants would
    >suddenly be serving plain baked potatoes with their double
    >cheeseburgers.
    >

    I put barbecue sauce on my baked potatoes, that's enough.

    Doug
    --
    Doug Weller --
    A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
    Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
    Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/
     
  11. Doug Kanter

    Doug Kanter Guest

    "Joseph Littleshoes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    >> Oh no. Are you saying we've raped Indian cuisine here, in the same way
    >> we've
    >> turned Chinese food into something never ever seen in China?

    >
    > Not quite yet, not completely but were getting there.
    > ---
    > JL
    >
    >


    And let's not forget the so-called "Mexican" served in so many restaurants
    here, many of whose ingredients are beyond the financial reach of many
    people in Mexico.
     
  12. Default User wrote:

    > Medical care, especially for children, is a far more important
    > determiner of average life expectency.



    Medical care is also a far more important determiner of specific life
    expectency (that is, a determiner for the individual, skip the
    averages). This is a point that should be repeated. With all the
    emphasis on diet and nutrition in the news, and with all connections
    between specific diets and specific illnesses, it is easy to miss the
    connection between car wrecks and death and the connections between lack
    of medical care and death and the connections between infectious disease
    and death, etc. Sometimes it sounds like every illnesses is a simple
    matter of not eating enough brown rice and every individual who lived
    before the days of processed foods lived a happy, healthy, long life
    before dying peacefully in their sleep at age 90.


    --Lia
     
  13. Dee Randall

    Dee Randall Guest

    >> Oh no. Are you saying we've raped Indian cuisine here, in the same way
    >> we've
    >> turned Chinese food into something never ever seen in China?

    >
    > Not quite yet, not completely but were getting there.
    > ---
    > JL
    >


    Over the centuries when other countries have invaded and they have
    intertwined the two cuisines, I've heard it said that the cuisine has
    changed for the good. All is not lost here with our melting 'pot' of
    different ethnic cuisines.
    Dee Dee
     
  14. Doug Kanter

    Doug Kanter Guest

    "Dee Randall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >>> Oh no. Are you saying we've raped Indian cuisine here, in the same way
    >>> we've
    >>> turned Chinese food into something never ever seen in China?

    >>
    >> Not quite yet, not completely but were getting there.
    >> ---
    >> JL
    >>

    >
    > Over the centuries when other countries have invaded and they have
    > intertwined the two cuisines, I've heard it said that the cuisine has
    > changed for the good. All is not lost here with our melting 'pot' of
    > different ethnic cuisines.
    > Dee Dee
    >


    Correct, but if you've ever tasted real Chinese food, you know that the
    melting pot can get messy.
     
  15. OK, let me explain it this way. If a rolled oat is "processed", your
    body would have to somehow find it different. Same with the green bean.
    Unless you eat green beans raw, a canned green bean (without added salt
    was the example I used) is not processed either. Your stomach, health,
    metabolism, is not able to tell the difference between a rolled oat and
    a whole oat, assuming you also boil the oats before you eat them. There
    is nothing ADDED to oats and green beans. Rolling and drying does not
    change the food in this case. You couldn't make the same argument for
    grapes vs. raisins however because a chemical change takes place there.
    It seems to me you think packaging or packing is the same as
    processing.
     
  16. Now that's funny. Vegetarians do seem to be sensitive, quirky and a
    little hypochondiacal, so maybe that explains the absenteeism. Perhaps
    they just needed time off to meditate.

    For me, it is strictly a choice based on health. My 9-year-old eats
    meat and drinks 2% milk every day and I don't try to convert her, so I
    really have no political agenda to change anyone's food preference
    except my own. If I read a convincing article that said beef was
    suddenly better for you, I would start eating it again, too. The jury
    is still out, so perhaps it doesn't make a lot of difference whether
    you eat meat or not. I think my diet is healthier for me, but that's
    just an opinion. I am thin but I could easily gain weight even on a
    vegetarian diet.
     
  17. ~patches~

    ~patches~ Guest

    [email protected] wrote:

    > OK, let me explain it this way. If a rolled oat is "processed", your
    > body would have to somehow find it different. Same with the green bean.
    > Unless you eat green beans raw, a canned green bean (without added salt
    > was the example I used) is not processed either. Your stomach, health,
    > metabolism, is not able to tell the difference between a rolled oat and
    > a whole oat, assuming you also boil the oats before you eat them. There
    > is nothing ADDED to oats and green beans. Rolling and drying does not
    > change the food in this case. You couldn't make the same argument for
    > grapes vs. raisins however because a chemical change takes place there.
    > It seems to me you think packaging or packing is the same as
    > processing.
    >


    Wait a minute! I do a lot of homecanning and I will tell you canned
    green beans are most definitely processed whether or not you add salt.
    The processing for string or wax beans is 20 minutes at 10 pounds
    pressure. While good, they have a different texture, flavour and have
    lost some nutrients because of the processing. The only difference
    between my homecanned beans and store bought is the absence of
    bug/animal parts, salt, and preservatives. Check the ingredient label
    on green beans. They process *canned* green beans is a *processing
    plant* also known as a *canning factory*. IMO drying does change the
    food as it removes moisture that ultimately means on the molecular level
    the food is changed. You say drying does not alter the food then use an
    example using raisins? Raisins are dried grapes minus their water
    content. So if according to your argument a chemical change takes place
    when you dry grapes it is reasonable to say a chemical change takes
    place to any food dried including oats.
     
  18. Doug Kanter

    Doug Kanter Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > OK, let me explain it this way. If a rolled oat is "processed", your
    > body would have to somehow find it different. Same with the green bean.
    > Unless you eat green beans raw, a canned green bean (without added salt
    > was the example I used) is not processed either. Your stomach, health,
    > metabolism, is not able to tell the difference between a rolled oat and
    > a whole oat, assuming you also boil the oats before you eat them. There
    > is nothing ADDED to oats and green beans. Rolling and drying does not
    > change the food in this case. You couldn't make the same argument for
    > grapes vs. raisins however because a chemical change takes place there.
    > It seems to me you think packaging or packing is the same as
    > processing.
    >


    Canned vegetables are heated during processing. In other words, they're
    cooked.
     
  19. Actually, I gave up meat for health reasons (you might say "perceived"
    health reasons) and weaned myself off meat. At first I craved it. Then
    I would only eat it once or twice a week and either turkey breast or
    chicken breast only. One day I was having lunch with my daughter and
    she was eating a steak and cheese at Subway. When she finished, there
    was a lot left over so I thought I would finish it. I could not stand
    the smell. That is a true story. Since then, I smell meat and it always
    has a rotten, wild and gamey smell to it. I could choke it down no
    doubt, but I don't really want or need to. There is no political agenda
    or point I'm trying to make other than I don't eat meat and don't want
    to. My 9-year-old still eats meat and drinks 2% milk every day. I don't
    try to change her, so I wouldn't try to change strangers on message
    boards.
     
  20. No, a chemical change does not take place when you roll oats any more
    than a chemical change takes place when you eat an apple vs. when you
    place it in a juicer, then drink the entire result of juice plus apple
    pulp. Oats are dried to begin with so they do not mold, so any oats you
    buy whole or rolled are going to be dry. Visually, rolled oats are a
    little different and I suppose you could make some esoteric, obscure
    point that that difference could translate into some internal chemical
    changes in how you perceive the food, but that nonsense aside, rolled
    oats and whole oats are equivalent nutritionally. Corn Flakes are
    processed. Rolled oats are not.
     
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