Normalized power and actual 1 hour power wildly different

[paulmitche11]

I have been racing as a Masters Cat 4 for a few years. This year I got a late start and only did a few races, getting consistent top 10s. But if others saw my data they would think this is insane.

My best one hour of hard riding this year (really going hard) got me only a reading of 215 watts. My Best on record 40 minutes is only 229 watts. I'm a horrible climber and TT rider.

But I can power. My peak 1 second is 1300+ and this year's 5 second is 1252, 15 seconds is 1121. So, I can usually hang in races by sucking wheels, then when I need to move for a few seconds I've got the gas.

I believe it is as a result of my ability to surge in races and hard group rides that my Normalized Power comes up as 296 for 30 minutes and 284 for an hour. If I could actually do that I would be a much better rider!

Any thoughts on a NP and real-world 1 hour power that differs by 70 watts like this? Which should I be using as an input on my WKO for calculating my zones and TSS scores and such?

I will be spending my Winter trying to get actual 1 hour up to that fictional NP...

Paul

 

[DancenMacabre]

If and it is a big "if", your FTP is/was truly, genuinely <= 230 but you recorded a 1 hour NP of 280+ for a hard one hour race...then you'd have yourself quite the NP buster.

An NP Buster is defined as IF > 1.05 for 1 hour....and your numbers,
if they are accurate would be 284 (60m NP)/230 (~FTP) = 1.23 = IF for 60 minutes.

Frankly, given what I know of NP busters, the types of riders that have accomplished them, how they accomplished them, as well as being familiar with the NP calculation.....I'm not trying to take the mickey out of you or have a go at you, but at first glance I'm tempted to say you likely have underestimated your FTP or that your power measuring device is off-zero......

 

[paulmitche11]

For my Cycling Peaks software I actually have my FTP set to 269 which is what I get when I do the calculations based on my normalized power. So I'm not getting NP busters. But if I set the FTP based on a 30 minute TT I would have IF > 1.05 for an hour on every Saturday River Ride.

My SRM is calibrated and if I pull up next to someone on a ride we have about the same power (adjusted for weight / wind direction differences). I'm confident that my powermeter is working.

The question isn't as much "why does my NP rock" but "why does my actual FTP suck." Why can't I repeat anything close to my NP in a TT-like effort?"

When I set intervals for 20 minutes based on my NP I can't complete them... not even close. I think my race and training ride data suggests that I can go a lot harder (giving the higher NP) but I need to be able to do that at a steady state.

Thanks,

Paul

 

[gregf83]

I wonder if there is a good correlation between ratio of fast/slow twitch fibers and NP/FTP. Someone with a high percentage of fast twitch muscles who is a natural sprinter probably has less trouble doing a 1 hr workout with NP significantly above their FTP than a non-sprinter.

 

[DancenMacabre]

Paul......ok, much better. The question has to be asked though....how often do you do long, steady intervals ? Presumably you do long intervals....right? If you don't then you probably needn't look further than that. Nonetheless, you may have answered your own question though because you allude to your best NP figures coming from group rides & races where you probably go all-out (or close to it) for short periods, followed by some easier periods, and then going very hard again. That's a good setting, not to mention plenty of motivation, for you to produce a high NP.

Greg....the NP files I'm familiar with tend to be from those with good, not necessarily great, NM power but also with good anaerobic capacity. Put those two attributes together and I think you'd be able to produce 1 hour NP values on the higher side as opposed to AP.

 

[paulmitche11]

Yep, that's what I'm focusing on for the winter - longer intervals. Getting a late start to this season I really just focused on my strengths - high cadence, accelerations, sprints and sucking wheels to recover.

This winter I'll be doing some CX (which gives me limited recovery) and doing mid-week longer 5-20 minute intervals on the trainer. I'm going to measure a 10 mile TT effort every month to see how / if I can increase my actual threshold power and get it closer to this figure in my NP.

"Motivation" is an interesting concept - I know when I was doing my best long effort on a breakaway I was begging the group to catch me. Couldn't stand it. But when I'm in a group I can turn myself inside out to hold on to the wheel in front of me, or be at the end of my rope and still be able to bridge up if need be. I just find I don't have that motivation on a TT-like effort.

Thanks for the input.