Normalized Power, VI, TSS and such...

Discussion in 'Power Training' started by jsirabella, Sep 6, 2007.

  1. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    As I get deeper and deeper into the book I have started to look at stuff like Normalized Power and VI and TSS and IF.

    I have noticed that my average power is at about 190 something on most of my rides which means just a little below where I would want my power to be for an SST/L4 ride. But when I look at my normalized power, I am usually 10 watts more than my ftp and my VI is usually at 1.2 or higher meaning hilly terrain. I admit my average power includes warm up and warm down but ofcourse so does my normalized power. During the intervals I am well into the SST/L4 zones though. Am I doing my SST/L4 correctly with these numbers?

    Next based upon the reading it would seem a TSS of over 100 and an IF over 1.05 means you probably have increased your FTP. Is that really true? I seem to always be above these numbers which makes me question whether my original FTP was correct?

    Which number iin the CP software do you guys look at the most for how well you are doing?

    Last what do you guys feel about fixed gear bikes? Are they good for training? I see alot of young messenger types who seem to be able to move on them well with a good pedal stroke but not sure if helpful for road races and power training?

    -JS
     
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  2. Roadie_scum

    Roadie_scum New Member

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    I think your instinct is good. You can probably change your FTP now, but if you need more confidence, retest.

    There isn't a single summary statistic to tell you this, but taken together you have a pretty powerful set of tools. I will look at my CTL in base/build phases in combination with FTP progress based on NP, AP and the power distribution chart. If I am doing intervals, I look at the average power for the interval, the NP if it is long (though I don't use NP to set intensity). I look for progress in these things over the longer term - improvement in power at a given RPE. I look at TSS, TSB, CTL ramp to assess what session might be appropriate tomorrow. I also listen to my body on that front. I'm sure there's more that I do - and that I am missing some of what can be done! It's a learning process...

    Fixed gear bikes are very good and fun for track racing! Seriously though, there is no need to train on one on the road.
     
  3. Speedskater

    Speedskater New Member

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    This is only true, if your workout was one hour long, since a TSS of 100 results of one hour at your FTP. If this TSS is a result of 1,5 h, then you cannot directly conclude that you have improved.
     
  4. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    I believe you mean 1.5h which you are correct during my SST/L4 rides but my L3 rides are usualy about 2.5 not including warmup and warm down. I feel the best way is a retest.

    Also I am feeling dangerous and next week will do the race that has been a real downer for me during this year. Really my only race which is that 17 mile crit and do it like an SST/L4 session. In time wise it works out to the same amount as doing 2 X 20 minute intevals with one rest period.

    In the worst case I get my workout and get some great data...

    -JS

     
  5. Roadie_scum

    Roadie_scum New Member

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    Speedskater was saying that an IF over 1.05 or NP over threshold is only diagnostic of improvement if the effort was greater than or equal to 60 minutes. This is a good point but one I think you know?
     
  6. NomadVW

    NomadVW New Member

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    The simple answer is - if you're routinely doing rides with IF greater than 1 for workouts 1 hr or longer, it's time to raise the FTP bar - or it was set too low originally.

    Well, really it's hard to say based on the information you provided. SST is not necessarily L4, so that's something to mention. (Link: http://www.fascatcoaching.com/sweetspot.html )

    You don't mentiond how long the sessions are or how long each interval is. Fortunately, SST and/or L4 training for threshold improvement aren't really rocket science. Interval sets of no less than 10ish minutes. The shorter the interval set, the higher % of FTP. 10 minutes would probably be pushing 105% of FTP, 20 minutes 98-100%. Of course, it depends on how many intervals you're doing too. You can start to play the TSS game on this really, and see which interval set would provide the most value:

    4 x 10 min @ 105% - ~ 73 TSS
    2 x 20 min @ 100% - ~67 TSS
    3 x 20 min @ 91% - ~82 TSS

    This would lead one to believe that 91% provides the most TSS while still allow the most time on the bike with the smallest PE penalty. I have lots of time to train this year, so one of my preferred workouts is 1 hr 30 min up to 2 hrs of straight 90-91% FTP.
     
  7. Alex Simmons

    Alex Simmons Member

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    Regular instances of TSS > 100 and IF >1.05 is a pretty solid indicator that FTP needs resetting, no matter how long it took to accumulate the TSS. Think about it guys.;)
     
  8. Speedskater

    Speedskater New Member

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    Right, here in Germany it´s a "," instead of an "." and I mixed things up a bit.
    :eek:
     
  9. Speedskater

    Speedskater New Member

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    Thought about it - and think you are right. :eek:
    The longer you can maintain an IF of 1.05 and the more you exceed 100 TSS, the better you are.
     
  10. Roadie_scum

    Roadie_scum New Member

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    Alex is definitely right!
     
  11. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    It is really strange that I notice I am definitely doing better now but I am really feeling run down. After I sleep and wake up I feel fine to go again and during the ride feel great but about an hour later it hits me like a ton of bricks.

    It is strange, not like weight lifting where you feel sore and sometimes pain but just run down. Usually a good breakfast after the ride of fruits and cottage cheese makes me feel better but as I push more it does not seem to be doing the trick.

    I think one part is still getting used to cycling at 5am in the morning...I find that hard but since our races start at 615, I need to get used to it. I do have a powerbar abd some caffeine to the mornign but does not seem enough. I even take power gels during the ride....

    I need to experiment....

    -js


     
  12. Roadie_scum

    Roadie_scum New Member

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    Sounds like you are getting to the edge of your carbo stores each day. Eating before rides and gels/sports drink during rides is a very good start. Fruit and cottage cheese sounds like a good, healthy snack, but not really ideal straight after rides. It is recommended to eat 1-1.5g of glycaemic carbohydrate (eg - sugar!) immediately after your ride (from when you get off the bike - over the next 30 mins starting as soon as possible). A small amount of protein ~10-15g is a good idea. Potential foods include recovery drinks (expensive), flavoured milk (my favourite), tuna sandwich on white bread and a soda, etc. It is a little difficult to get your head around, because the foods that you eat in this period are not strictly 'health foods'. Instead, the sugar kick is good, because it helps refuel your muscles quickly. You can then return to normal, high carb, healthy eating patterns throughout the day.
     
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