Nosecones and SWBs revisited.

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Cletus D . Lee, Jun 28, 2003.

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  1. My Lightning Voyager came with a full F-40 fairing. I never mastered getting my feet out thos tiny
    little slits to see any benefit from the full fairing. Besides, the full fairing is too hot in Texas
    in the summer and it is too windy in Texas in the winter.

    I tried just the nosecone once or twice about two years ago with dissappointing results. I had a 349
    suspension fork on the bike then and could never manage any speed on the bike with or without the
    nosecone. Well I have a 406 fork now and I am about 2mph faster without the fairing now than when I
    had the smaller wheel and fork.

    I decided to give the Nosecone another chance. I have been on my Saturday rides turning in some of
    my best times ever on the Voyager. So I thought I would see if the nosecone added anything. Lately,
    I have managed 18+ mph averages for the first 40 miles of the ride. My highest average speed
    recorded for the ride is when we leave Memorial park and head downtown. For the last few weeks that
    has been 18.5 mph Normal cruising speed for me is 20-22 mph. It takes a good paceline to sustain
    that 18 mph average by the end of the 40 miles.

    We left the parking lot of Planetary Cycles (Home of the CycleGenius) at 7:30. As usual I was last
    to leave. As always, it is my goal to pick off the lead rider before we cross the railroad track
    about a half mile from the shop. I shot past the lead DF this morning doing 26. Two DFs sucked in
    behind me and hung on for the next 10 miles until we reached Memorial park and the 1+ mile Picnic
    loop where many cyclists do laps. I found that I was not so fast in the picnic loop that I couldn't
    be passed by a DF or two. The Picnic Loop does not have any real straight spots so I found my best
    speed to be 22-24.

    When we left the park after regrouping my average was 19.2 mph. about .7 mph faster than what I
    have seen for the last few weekends. I always lose time negotiating the lights in the CBD. Today
    was no exception. A bigger concern seemed to rob me of speed even further. I had difficulty all
    day removing my right shoe from the eggbeater pedal. The sidewalls of the nosecone interfered with
    the outward motion need to easily exit the pedal. I found my self anticipating stop lights and
    focusing on getting my feet out of the pedals rather than smoothly stoping at each light. Were it
    not for that, I might have had a little higher average at the end of the ride. I finished the 40
    miles to our Brunch stop with an average of 18.6 mph or a little less than 0.5 mph faster than
    without the nosecone.

    Was the nosecone faster? Yes, but not by much. I pulled the whole paceline today instead of rotating
    so I got no benefit from the others as I usually do. So It might have been faster than the numbers
    show. The worry of pedal exit was not worth the minimal extra speed.

    The nosecone is off the bike again and it will probably stay off until I cover the F-40 tailbox
    frame with some rigid skin material.

    --
    Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
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  2. Dave Clary

    Dave Clary Guest

    On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 14:28:08 -0500, Cletus D. Lee <[email protected]> wrote:

    >My Lightning Voyager came with a full F-40 fairing. I never mastered getting my feet out thos tiny
    >little slits to see any benefit from the full fairing. Besides, the full fairing is too hot in
    >Texas in the summer and it is too windy in Texas in the winter.

    I loved cranking up my faired P-38 as long as the wind was directly off the nose or tail. or was a
    quartering wind. But those gusty side winds were damn scary. You can probably find some accounts of
    my more harrowing commutes in the HPV archives, but getting blown sideways on a busy roadway was the
    beginning of the end of the P-38FF!!

    Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget:
    http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call
    http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd
     
  3. Ben Fox

    Ben Fox Guest

    I have had 4 rides now with my full Zipper fairing on my P-38 and I have to say it's great! Whether
    it's into a headwind or with a tailwind it is definately faster with
    it.It seems to work better on the P-38 than the fairing I had on my RANS V-2. Ben Fox "Cletus D.
    Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > My Lightning Voyager came with a full F-40 fairing. I never mastered getting my feet out thos tiny
    > little slits to see any benefit from the full fairing. Besides, the full fairing is too hot in
    > Texas in the summer and it is too windy in Texas in the winter.
    >
    > I tried just the nosecone once or twice about two years ago with dissappointing results. I had a
    > 349 suspension fork on the bike then and could never manage any speed on the bike with or without
    > the nosecone. Well I have a 406 fork now and I am about 2mph faster without the fairing now than
    > when I had the smaller wheel and fork.
    >
    > I decided to give the Nosecone another chance. I have been on my Saturday rides turning in some of
    > my best times ever on the Voyager. So I thought I would see if the nosecone added anything.
    > Lately, I have managed 18+ mph averages for the first 40 miles of the ride. My highest average
    > speed recorded for the ride is when we leave Memorial park and head downtown. For the last few
    > weeks that has been 18.5 mph Normal cruising speed for me is 20-22 mph. It takes a good paceline
    > to sustain that 18 mph average by the end of the 40 miles.
    >
    > We left the parking lot of Planetary Cycles (Home of the CycleGenius) at 7:30. As usual I was last
    > to leave. As always, it is my goal to pick off the lead rider before we cross the railroad track
    > about a half mile from the shop. I shot past the lead DF this morning doing 26. Two DFs sucked in
    > behind me and hung on for the next 10 miles until we reached Memorial park and the 1+ mile Picnic
    > loop where many cyclists do laps. I found that I was not so fast in the picnic loop that I
    > couldn't be passed by a DF or two. The Picnic Loop does not have any real straight spots so I
    > found my best speed to be 22-24.
    >
    > When we left the park after regrouping my average was 19.2 mph. about .7 mph faster than what I
    > have seen for the last few weekends. I always lose time negotiating the lights in the CBD. Today
    > was no exception. A bigger concern seemed to rob me of speed even further. I had difficulty all
    > day removing my right shoe from the eggbeater pedal. The sidewalls of the nosecone interfered with
    > the outward motion need to easily exit the pedal. I found my self anticipating stop lights and
    > focusing on getting my feet out of the pedals rather than smoothly stoping at each light. Were it
    > not for that, I might have had a little higher average at the end of the ride. I finished the 40
    > miles to our Brunch stop with an average of 18.6 mph or a little less than 0.5 mph faster than
    > without the nosecone.
    >
    > Was the nosecone faster? Yes, but not by much. I pulled the whole paceline today instead of
    > rotating so I got no benefit from the others as I usually do. So It might have been faster than
    > the numbers show. The worry of pedal exit was not worth the minimal extra speed.
    >
    > The nosecone is off the bike again and it will probably stay off until I cover the F-40 tailbox
    > frame with some rigid skin material.
    >
    > --
    > Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    > - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  4. Cletus D. Lee <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > My Lightning Voyager came with a full F-40 fairing. I never mastered getting my feet out thos tiny
    > little slits to see any benefit from the full fairing. Besides, the full fairing is too hot in
    > Texas in the summer and it is too windy in Texas in the winter.
    >

    Cletus, I have been riding my F-40 for about 4 months now. I have tried it in all configurations.
    Totally unfaired, with just the tailbox, with just the nosecone, with nosecone and tailbox, and with
    the full bodysock. I rode over the same 12 mile course (6 miles out and 6 miles back) which has no
    stops and held the same heart rate on all rides. The nosecone and tailbox both helped some over the
    unfaired bike. The full bodysock is far and away the fastest. For a comparison - at a heart rate of
    130 the unfaired P-38 average was 17.5 mph (several runs). The full faired was 23.5 mph (several
    runs). I now have about 1500 miles with the bodysock. I now feel totally comfortable on it. I have
    no problem getting my foot thru the slits. At first I would look to find them but now It is just
    automatic. I haven't (so far) even come close to getting in trouble. I also ride it in all weather.
    The temperature here in West Texas is averaging about 95 and our wind is over 20 much of the time.
    When riding in the heat of the day I just squirt some water on my jersey and unzip the top zipper
    about a foot. My body is in the shade and the wind will blow up across my chest and face over my wet
    jersey and it has a cooling effect. I am going to ride it in the Hotter'n Hell ride in August. The
    wind gives me no problem now that I have had so much practice in it. I have found that a side wind
    of 15 to 20 gives me a tacking effect that feels like a push. On our Tues Thurs training rides the
    DF riders have a much harder time trying to keep up if I am in a side wind. I am spoiled with the
    speed now and would not even consider taking off the bodysock. I also save on sunscreen.

    Safe riding, Carl
     
  5. Cletus Lee

    Cletus Lee Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > The temperature here in West Texas is averaging about 95 and our wind is over 20 much of the time.
    > When riding in the heat of the day I just squirt some water on my jersey and unzip the top zipper
    > about a foot. My body is in the shade and the wind will blow up across my chest and face over my
    > wet jersey and it has a cooling effect.
    >
    I note that you are from West Texas. My jersey and everything else is soggy wet by 10 miles into any
    ride and DF'ers ask if my waterbottle is leaking. And this is with no fairing at all. The times that
    I tried the full F-40 fairing, were in the fall when the temperatures had cooled to the 80s. Have
    you ever been in a Turkish bath? I am looking to modify my F-40 by putting a permanent skin on the
    tailbox and creating removable sides. I will keep the bottom and top of the cockpit open for
    ventilation.

    --

    Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  6. EEE-gad, I am SUCH a moron! I've always been a bit dyslexic, but this is ridiculous.

    This thread has been going on for what, a couple of days now?

    And I just figured out what the Subject line says. I had been wondering what the heck "nosecones"
    meant. But I wasn't interested enough to open one of the messages to find out.

    To me it looked like a Spanish word:

    no-say-CO-nays.

    Well, that COULD be a Spanish word, couldn't it?
     
  7. bentcruiser

    bentcruiser New Member

    Joined:
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    Cletus this surprises me.

    Over the last years I have been on the list, people just rave about full fairings and their speed benefit.

    A man up here in Oklahoma rode from Tahlequah, Ok to Denison (which is 192 miles), TX is eight hours.

    He rides an R-84 with the F40 fairing on it. He had it special made. Tim Brummer told him he was the first to have this done. He does ride regularly and race regularly.

    Does the fairing add much weight to the bike?
     
  8. Akensmith

    Akensmith Guest

    >The full bodysock is far and away the fastest. >>

    Carl,

    You are undoubtedly aware that just such a bike still (I believe) holds the all-time record for the
    Seattle-to-Portland bike ride. Former RAAM single and tandem champion, Pete Penseyres was at the
    helm of the F-40.

    Norm Totally unfaired P-38
     
  9. Cletus Lee

    Cletus Lee Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > EEE-gad, I am SUCH a moron! I've always been a bit dyslexic, but this is ridiculous.
    >
    > This thread has been going on for what, a couple of days now?
    >
    > And I just figured out what the Subject line says. I had been wondering what the heck "nosecones"
    > meant. But I wasn't interested enough to open one of the messages to find out.
    >
    > To me it looked like a Spanish word:
    >
    > no-say-CO-nays.
    >
    > Well, that COULD be a Spanish word, couldn't it?
    >

    No Si Cajones?

    --

    Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  10. Dave Clary

    Dave Clary Guest

    On 30 Jun 2003 11:57:24 -0700, [email protected] (Carl R. Murdock) wrote:

    >
    >haven't (so far) even come close to getting in trouble. I also ride it in all weather. The
    >temperature here in West Texas is averaging about 95 and our wind is over 20 much of the time.

    Sounds familiar--where are you?

    Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Past President--San Angelo Bicycling Association Home:
    http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org
     
  11. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    bentcruiser wrote:
    > ... Does the fairing add much weight to the bike?

    A particular P-38 XL/F-40 that I am aware of weighs 32 pounds bare and 40 pounds with the
    full fairing.

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  12. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > Cletus this surprises me.
    >
    > Over the last years I have been on the list, people just rave about full fairings and their speed
    > benefit.

    Please note: The subject of my original post is Nosecajones only. As has been discussed a front
    fairing (or in my case nosecone) on a SWB does not add much in the way of aerodynamic benefit. Since
    it had been a while since I tried the nosecone only and I have seen considerable improvement in my
    unfaired performance since then, I thought I would revisit the nosecone option to verify my earlier
    experiences. I believe that a fair test would be to put the bike with the nosecone to test on the
    open road instead of city streets.
    --
    Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  13. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    >
    > bentcruiser wrote:
    > > ... Does the fairing add much weight to the bike?
    >
    > A particular P-38 XL/F-40 that I am aware of weighs 32 pounds bare and 40 pounds with the full
    > fairing.
    >
    > Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
    >
    An 8 lb addition is about right (if the lycra fairing is dry)
    --
    Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  14. Dave Clary <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > On 30 Jun 2003 11:57:24 -0700, [email protected] (Carl R. Murdock) wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >haven't (so far) even come close to getting in trouble. I also ride it in all weather. The
    > >temperature here in West Texas is averaging about 95 and our wind is over 20 much of the time.
    >
    > Sounds familiar--where are you?
    >
    > Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Past President--San Angelo Bicycling Association Home:
    > http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org

    Dave, I'm in Odessa, TX. I and two other riders started the PBBA many years ago. It is now a big
    club. As you know we have many roads where there is very little traffic and others that are
    designated with bike signs. I spent 3 years in Corpus Christi when I was in the Navy. I still
    remember the wind. What I don't miss is the humidity. I guess Cletus has to deal with high
    humidity. That does make a lot of difference. We have low humidity. Many homes are still cooled by
    swamp coolers.

    Carl Murdock Odessa, TX F-40, Stratus, Rocket, Klein, Santana Tandem
     
  15. 98gtw

    98gtw Guest

    Cletus D. Lee <[email protected]> wrote in news:MPG.196ab1b826205eae989a22 @News.CIS.DFN.DE:

    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    >> Cletus this surprises me.
    >>
    >> Over the last years I have been on the list, people just rave about full fairings and their speed
    >> benefit.
    >
    > Please note: The subject of my original post is Nosecajones only. As has been discussed a front
    > fairing (or in my case nosecone) on a SWB does not add much in the way of aerodynamic benefit.
    > Since it had been a while since I tried the nosecone only and I have seen considerable improvement
    > in my unfaired performance since then, I thought I would revisit the nosecone option to verify my
    > earlier experiences. I believe that a fair test would be to put the bike with the nosecone to test
    > on the open road instead of city streets.

    Are there plans/kits available? I'd be interested in trying to set up a full bodysock on my Presto.
    Currently I sometimes use a Vision fairing up front. Would it be suitable for socking? Didn't one of
    the bodysock setups use a single upright pole at the rear of a rack to hold the sock in shape,
    rather than a full tailbox?

    --
    Dave 98GTW [email protected] (remove nospam to reply directly) Presto, Presto II, Screamer
     
  16. bentcruiser

    bentcruiser New Member

    Joined:
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    That makes sense. IMHO, the F40 fairing would be more at home on the open road. Several that I ride with tell me as you did with the pedals. They also report that tight turns are not easy either.
     
  17. Cletus Lee

    Cletus Lee Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

    > Are there plans/kits available? I'd be interested in trying to set up a full bodysock on my
    > Presto. Currently I sometimes use a Vision fairing up front. Would it be suitable for socking?
    > Didn't one of the bodysock setups use a single upright pole at the rear of a rack to hold the sock
    > in shape, rather than a full tailbox?

    AFAIK there are no plans or kits to retro fit a F-40 with a rigid skin. The Lycra covering supplied
    by LCD is more like a body stocking than anything else. Since I have an F-40, it comes with a
    perfectly good fiberglass nosecone and a well made aluminum tailbox skeleton. I just need to cover
    the tailbox and keep the airflow out of the inside of the tailbox. I am looking for a
    pliable/moldable rigid skin like Sintra.

    --

    Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  18. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    > Are there plans/kits available? I'd be interested in trying to set up a full bodysock on my
    > Presto. Currently I sometimes use a Vision fairing up front. Would it be suitable for socking?
    > Didn't one of the bodysock setups use a single upright pole at the rear of a rack to hold the sock
    > in shape, rather than a full tailbox?

    Most (all?) Easy Racer body socks use a pole to support the rear. The pole that comes stock mounts
    on a Blackburn rack, but then I've seen some homebrew mounts using carbon fiber or aluminum kite
    poles and fittings.

    Jeff
     
  19. Dave Clary

    Dave Clary Guest

    On 30 Jun 2003 22:34:54 -0700, [email protected] (Carl R. Murdock) wrote:

    >I'm in Odessa, TX. I and two other riders started the PBBA many years ago. It is now a big club. As
    >you know we have many roads where there is very little traffic

    Yep, and missing those roads was the beginning of the end for me. I could leave my house in San
    Angelo, get through one blinking red-light, and then have no problem riding for 100 miles without
    having to stop (unless the engine required it). Moving to Corpus changed the game completely.

    > I spent 3 years in Corpus Christi when I was in the Navy. I still remember the wind.

    Yep, it's a bitch. I knew I was in trouble when I pulled into town with my trusty Cannondale R700
    (purchased in Midland BTW) in the pick- up bed and spotted bumper stickers that said "Pray For
    Wind." I knew I was in the wrong place! :) What's good for wind surfers ain't so good for cyclist.
    The next day I did the ride around the bay including screaming down the Harbor Bridge sporting a
    J-disc on the rear. Talk about spooky!!

    > What I don't miss is the humidity. I guess Cletus has to deal with high humidity. That does make a
    > lot of difference. We have low humidity.

    Big time difference. In San Angelo, I always wore jerseys of "technical" fabric--Coolmax and the
    like. I thought they worked well. But forget that here--nothing wicks or evaporates. You're better
    off wearing 100% cotton and letting your sweaty shirt be your radiator.

    > Many homes are still cooled by swamp coolers.

    They had those things in the old WWII barracks I lived in when I first went to Goodfellow AFB.

    I really need to get back out there and visit the old haunts.

    Take care,

    Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Lookin like a soon-2-b EZ-1 Pilot Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary
    Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call
    http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd
     
  20. Tom Thompson

    Tom Thompson Guest

    "Cletus D. Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > > Cletus this surprises me.
    > >
    > > Over the last years I have been on the list, people just rave about full fairings and their
    > > speed benefit.
    >
    > Please note: The subject of my original post is Nosecajones only.
    <Snip>

    I have not tried it, and probably won't, but I have to believe that keeping my cojones out of the
    slipstream has got to be faster than having them on my nose. And less painful as well.

    Tom (thinking of a scene in MIB II) Thompson
     
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