Not a Peep about USPS/BF in local papers

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Richard Adams, Sep 28, 2003.

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  1. Just checking the Sunday woodpulp for any mention of Heras success in the ITT. Nothing in San Jose
    Murky or SF Chronicle. Just little listings in the back, small print section under Cycling.

    While the coverage of the TdF was weak at best, it's pathetic that a US based team is on the verge
    of another GT victory (even though the rider is spanish) there's nada. Just weeks after all the
    attention and lipservice for the t-Mobile.

    On the upside, Skip Brainless of the Murky hasn't written one of his masterpieces, "Heras: Not a
    True Athlete"
     
    Tags:


  2. Tom Paterson

    Tom Paterson Guest

    >From: Richard Adams

    >On the upside, Skip Brainless of the Murky hasn't written one of his masterpieces, "Heras: Not a
    >True >Athlete"

    His vision is also suspect, as he responded to my return on "Cyclists not athletes" by denying that
    baseball players aren't fat. I rejoined with a list but guess what, that email addy didn't work.

    Well, Clemons retired, so at least there's one less porker getting paid too much to chase a little
    ball. Well, occasionally chase a little ball, or run 90 feet. Phew. Jiggle, jiggle. --TP
     
  3. In article <[email protected]>, Richard Adams <[email protected]> wrote:

    > While the coverage of the TdF was weak at best, it's pathetic that a US based team is on the verge
    > of another GT victory (even though the rider is spanish) there's nada. Just weeks after all the
    > attention and lipservice for the t-Mobile.

    Not many American cyclists give a damn about the Vuelta. Why should regular people care?
     
  4. Tom Paterson wrote:

    >>From: Richard Adams
    >
    >
    >>On the upside, Skip Brainless of the Murky hasn't written one of his masterpieces, "Heras: Not a
    >>True >Athlete"
    >
    >
    > His vision is also suspect, as he responded to my return on "Cyclists not athletes" by denying
    > that baseball players aren't fat. I rejoined with a list but guess what, that email addy
    > didn't work.
    >
    > Well, Clemons retired, so at least there's one less porker getting paid too much to chase a little
    > ball. Well, occasionally chase a little ball, or run 90 feet. Phew. Jiggle, jiggle. --TP

    I was actually a fairly rabid baseball fan until 1986. I was on sickleave for 6 weeks starting in
    late June and watching a lot of TV. I'd followed very few sports other than baseball and football
    (basketball was and still remains a mystery, the sport of egomaniacs if you ask me) and began
    watching Wimbleton tennis, the very year a scrappy 17 year-old Boris Becker won. To say the least it
    was riveting.

    Tennis over, I tried to follow baseball again, but it appeared to be excrutiatingly slow. I have
    seen faster chess matches, probably played by fitter people.

    I have no doubt there are fit, hard-training baseball players, but MLB isn't much of a showcase for
    athleticism.
     
  5. chiefhiawatha wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, Richard Adams <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>While the coverage of the TdF was weak at best, it's pathetic that a US based team is on the verge
    >>of another GT victory (even though the rider is spanish) there's nada. Just weeks after all the
    >>attention and lipservice for the t-Mobile.
    >
    >
    > Not many American cyclists give a damn about the Vuelta. Why should regular people care?

    I wondere where you dig up those impressive statistics. Among those cycling fans I know it's been a
    hot topic. Now we'll have to return to discussing the last WC races and who's hot for the World's
    in Hamilton.

    You give "regular people" the opportunity to be fans by informing them, which it what newspapers
    existed for. Though now it seems more focused on telling people what they already have heard or
    seen, i.e. big article on Cal Bears beating USC. If you saw the game you ain't gonna learn nuthin
    from the sports section.

    Bicycle racing used to be a huge sport in the USA, until WW II. Maybe when gas reaches $4/gal. it'll
    make its big comback. You put two people on bikes on the same road, going the same direction and
    you've got a race, declared or not. ;-)
     
  6. Tom Paterson wrote:

    >>From: Richard Adams
    >
    >
    >>I have no doubt there are fit, hard-training baseball players, but MLB isn't much of a showcase
    >>for athleticism.
    >
    >
    > Lots of fit guys playing ball, but not fit like cyclists. My beef was the "not athletes" bit.
    >
    > May I?
    >
    > GO CUBBIES!!!
    >
    > Thank you. --TP

    If there was one stadium and one team I did enjoy watching play, it was the Cubs. The slow pace,
    Harry Carey nipping out to get sauced before coming back to sing "take me out to the ballgame" at
    the 7th inng stretch. All a welcome retreat from the rest of the city.

    I'm sure ol' Harry is smiling.
     
  7. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    "chiefhiawatha" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Richard Adams <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > While the coverage of the TdF was weak at best, it's pathetic that a US based team is on the
    > > verge of another GT victory (even though the rider is spanish) there's nada. Just weeks after
    > > all the attention and lipservice for the t-Mobile.
    >
    > Not many American cyclists give a damn about the Vuelta. Why should regular people care?

    What makes you say that? American cycling fans have generally responded well according to any
    information available for any of the GTs. Look at OLN's coverage the last few years. You are saying
    they do not know how to program?
     
  8. On 28 Sep 2003 16:37:55 GMT, Richard Adams <[email protected]> wrote:

    >chiefhiawatha wrote:

    >> Not many American cyclists give a damn about the Vuelta. Why should regular people care?
    >
    >I wondere where you dig up those impressive statistics. Among those cycling fans I know it's been a
    >hot topic.

    "Cyclists" is not the same as bike racing fans.

    JT
    *******************************************
    NB: reply-to address is munged

    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    *******************************************
     
  9. Ken Papai

    Ken Papai Guest

    "Tom Paterson" <[email protected]@mb-m19.aol.com...
    > >From: Richard Adams
    >
    > >I have no doubt there are fit, hard-training baseball players, but MLB isn't much of a showcase
    > >for athleticism.
    >
    > Lots of fit guys playing ball, but not fit like cyclists. My beef was the
    "not
    > athletes" bit.

    In baseball -- you CANNOT BET fat and be a shortstop or center fielder. Athletes Only for those two
    roles. Almost the same for 2B and C.

    Many instances of fat 3B, 1B, P, LF, RF, and of course the idiotic DH.

    In cycling if you're fat you're either an ex-great (Merckx or LeMond) or a D.S. (Saiz).

    -ken
     
  10. "chiefhiawatha" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Richard Adams <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > While the coverage of the TdF was weak at best, it's pathetic that a US based team is on the
    > > verge of another GT victory (even though the rider is spanish) there's nada. Just weeks after
    > > all the attention and lipservice for the t-Mobile.
    >
    > Not many American cyclists give a damn about the Vuelta. Why should regular people care?

    Dumbass -

    Yesterday was damn good drama.

    Cycling fans or not, Americans like good drama. That's why the Olympics are so bad to watch for real
    sports fans - the network tries to turn it into a soap opera.
     
  11. > > While the coverage of the TdF was weak at best, it's pathetic that a US based team is on the
    > > verge of another GT victory (even though the rider is spanish) there's nada. Just weeks after
    > > all the attention and lipservice for the t-Mobile.
    >
    > Not many American cyclists give a damn about the Vuelta. Why should regular people care?

    US coverage of international races is almost entirely geared to the TDF, which has this guy named
    Lance something-or-other in it. It's not completely the fault of the local (US) newspapers; it's in
    their interest to promote what people already want to read, and cycling, by-and-large, doesn't fit
    that category. Sure, it would be better if the sports writers better understood the drama and
    suffering that encompasses a Grand Tour, so they could write about it in a way that their
    subscribers could relate to. And Lance *has* helped in that regard, no question. But have Lance and
    US Postal done what they can to help cycling in general?

    With Lance's (and US Postal's) success comes, I believe, a responsibility to leverage that success
    in a way that benefits competitive cycling in general, not just within the narrow confines of the
    Lance or TDF story. US Postal ought to take every opportunity they can to make a big splash with the
    Vuelta, including having Lance hype it up as much as possible (quotes like "This guy, Heras, has
    been instrumental in helping me win my TDFs... it shows what an incredible athlete he is that he can
    come back after that and win the Vuelta. There's more to racing than just the TDF, and not every
    bike racing fan in the world speaks French."). Too bad you'll probably never read a quote like that.

    As Pogo said, "We have met the enemy, and he is us." It's fine to let sports writers and television
    producers know that we're here, that we represent numbers (but pray that they don't actually look at
    the surveys that show just how small those numbers are!). But we need a strong local angle if we
    really want them to pay attention. We need to push the idea that the huge Hispanic community in the
    US might have an interest in the great Spanish-speaking bike racers. We need help from the teams
    themselves in reaching out to those communities, trying to build a sense of pride in what "their"
    athletes are doing. And we need help from US Postal, moving Heras into the limelight.

    Besides, it just might be Heras in a US Postal uniform winning the TDF in 2005! (Please allow some
    wishful thinking that US Postal won't go away when Lance retires.) Wouldn't that be something? A
    US-based cycling team led by a native Spanish-speaking cyclist.

    [Confession time: It takes me a while to get into the Vuelta. Try as I might, it's just not nearly
    as scenic a race to watch on TV as the Giro or TDF. So much of the racing seems to take place in
    almost desert-like terrain, dry and wind-swept. I'm sure it's made worse by the time of year it's
    held, and I'm sure that Spain is actually a spectacularly-beautiful place to ride. But from what
    I've seen on TV coverage, it just doesn't compare to the Giro or TDF.]

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  12. Robert Chung

    Robert Chung Guest

    Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    > [Confession time: It takes me a while to get into the Vuelta. Try as I might, it's just not nearly
    > as scenic a race to watch on TV as the Giro or TDF. So much of the racing seems to take place in
    > almost desert-like terrain, dry and wind-swept. I'm sure it's made worse by the time of year it's
    > held, and I'm sure that Spain is actually a spectacularly-beautiful place to ride. But from what
    > I've seen on TV coverage, it just doesn't compare to the Giro or TDF.]

    Hmmm. Watching the Vuelta makes me homesick for California.
     
  13. Matabala

    Matabala Guest

    From the looks of the latest Vuelta photos, Bruunel's getting close to making the list.

    "Ken Papai" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Tom Paterson" <[email protected]@mb-m19.aol.com...
    > > >From: Richard Adams
    > >
    > > >I have no doubt there are fit, hard-training baseball players, but MLB isn't much of a showcase
    > > >for athleticism.
    > >
    > > Lots of fit guys playing ball, but not fit like cyclists. My beef was
    the
    > "not
    > > athletes" bit.
    >
    > In baseball -- you CANNOT BET fat and be a shortstop or center fielder. Athletes Only for those
    > two roles. Almost the same for 2B and C.
    >
    > Many instances of fat 3B, 1B, P, LF, RF, and of course the idiotic DH.
    >
    > In cycling if you're fat you're either an ex-great (Merckx or LeMond) or a D.S. (Saiz).
    >
    > -ken
     
  14. On 09/28/2003 11:54 AM, in article [email protected], "Ken Papai"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    > "Tom Paterson" <[email protected]@mb-m19.aol.com...
    >>> From: Richard Adams
    >>
    >>> I have no doubt there are fit, hard-training baseball players, but MLB isn't much of a showcase
    >>> for athleticism.
    >>
    >> Lots of fit guys playing ball, but not fit like cyclists. My beef was the
    > "not
    >> athletes" bit.
    >
    > In baseball -- you CANNOT BET fat and be a shortstop or center fielder. Athletes Only for those
    > two roles. Almost the same for 2B and C.

    IIRC, Thurman Munson was a fattie ...

    > Many instances of fat 3B, 1B, P, LF, RF, and of course the idiotic DH.
    >
    > In cycling if you're fat you're either an ex-great (Merckx or LeMond) or a D.S. (Saiz).
    >
    > -ken
    >
    >

    --
    Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum
    pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti
    ay aitch aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-yew double-ewe
    dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash
     
  15. [email protected] (Tom Paterson) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > >From: Richard Adams
    >
    > >On the upside, Skip Brainless of the Murky hasn't written one of his masterpieces, "Heras: Not a
    > >True >Athlete"
    >
    > His vision is also suspect, as he responded to my return on "Cyclists not athletes" by denying
    > that baseball players aren't fat. I rejoined with a list but guess what, that email addy
    > didn't work.
    >
    > Well, Clemons retired, so at least there's one less porker getting paid too much to chase a little
    > ball. Well, occasionally chase a little ball, or run 90 feet. Phew. Jiggle, jiggle. --TP

    Fastball pitchers tend to hold up better over the long term, if they have "Robust" physiques.

    Even fat pitchers are still athletes, albeit ones with very specific skill sets.

    Now golfers as athletes--that's another story altogether.

    Frankly, that idiot columnist ought to lose his job over the slight to cycling.
     
  16. "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > While the coverage of the TdF was weak at best, it's pathetic that a US based team is on the
    > > > verge of another GT victory (even though the rider is spanish) there's nada. Just weeks after
    > > > all the attention and lipservice for the t-Mobile.
    > >
    > > Not many American cyclists give a damn about the Vuelta. Why should regular people care?
    >
    > US coverage of international races is almost entirely geared to the TDF, which has this guy named
    > Lance something-or-other in it. It's not completely the fault of the local (US) newspapers; it's
    > in their interest to promote what people already want to read, and cycling, by-and-large, doesn't
    > fit that category. Sure, it would be better if the sports writers better understood the drama and
    > suffering that encompasses a Grand Tour, so they could write about it in a way that their
    > subscribers could relate to. And Lance *has* helped in that regard, no question. But have Lance
    > and US Postal done what they can to help cycling in general?
    >
    > With Lance's (and US Postal's) success comes, I believe, a responsibility to leverage that success
    > in a way that benefits competitive cycling in general, not just within the narrow confines of the
    > Lance or TDF story. US Postal ought to take every opportunity they can to make a big splash with
    > the Vuelta, including having Lance hype it up as much as possible (quotes like "This guy, Heras,
    > has been instrumental in helping me win my TDFs... it shows what an incredible athlete he is that
    > he can come back after that and win the Vuelta. There's more to racing than just the TDF, and not
    > every bike racing fan in the world speaks French."). Too bad you'll probably never read a quote
    > like that.
    >
    > As Pogo said, "We have met the enemy, and he is us." It's fine to let sports writers and
    > television producers know that we're here, that we represent numbers (but pray that they don't
    > actually look at the surveys that show just how small those numbers are!). But we need a strong
    > local angle if we really want them to pay attention. We need to push the idea that the huge
    > Hispanic community in the US might have an interest in the great Spanish-speaking bike racers. We
    > need help from the teams themselves in reaching out to those communities, trying to build a sense
    > of pride in what "their" athletes are doing. And we need help from US Postal, moving Heras into
    > the limelight.
    >
    > Besides, it just might be Heras in a US Postal uniform winning the TDF in 2005! (Please allow some
    > wishful thinking that US Postal won't go away when Lance retires.) Wouldn't that be something? A
    > US-based cycling team led by a native Spanish-speaking cyclist.

    Are there many Hispanic-Americans who are cycling fans? In that case, a Heras led team would
    still be good pub for the USPS. Or, if they could land Tyler Hamilton....Imagine: Neither rain
    nor snow, nor gloom of night, or even broken collarbones, shall keep this cyclist from his
    appointed tours.
    >
    > [Confession time: It takes me a while to get into the Vuelta. Try as I might, it's just not nearly
    > as scenic a race to watch on TV as the Giro or TDF. So much of the racing seems to take place in
    > almost desert-like terrain, dry and wind-swept. I'm sure it's made worse by the time of year it's
    > held, and I'm sure that Spain is actually a spectacularly-beautiful place to ride. But from what
    > I've seen on TV coverage, it just doesn't compare to the Giro or TDF.]
    >
    > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  17. Dan Connelly

    Dan Connelly Guest

  18. Robert Chung wrote:
    > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    >
    >>[Confession time: It takes me a while to get into the Vuelta. Try as I might, it's just not nearly
    >>as scenic a race to watch on TV as the Giro or TDF. So much of the racing seems to take place in
    >>almost desert-like terrain, dry and wind-swept. I'm sure it's made worse by the time of year it's
    >>held, and I'm sure that Spain is actually a spectacularly-beautiful place to ride. But from what
    >>I've seen on TV coverage, it just doesn't compare to the Giro or TDF.]
    >
    >
    > Hmmm. Watching the Vuelta makes me homesick for California.

    Don't be in too big a hurry. Hayfever is going around and my sinuses are raw after a long ride
    Saturday followed by a long hike Sunday.

    One interesting discovery on my hike was where the USPS teamcar is hiding out. :)
     
  19. Isidor Gunsberg wrote:

    > "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >>>>While the coverage of the TdF was weak at best, it's pathetic that a US based team is on the
    >>>>verge of another GT victory (even though the rider is spanish) there's nada. Just weeks after
    >>>>all the attention and lipservice for the t-Mobile.
    >>>
    >>>Not many American cyclists give a damn about the Vuelta. Why should regular people care?
    >>
    >>US coverage of international races is almost entirely geared to the TDF, which has this guy named
    >>Lance something-or-other in it. It's not completely the fault of the local (US) newspapers; it's
    >>in their interest to promote what people already want to read, and cycling, by-and-large, doesn't
    >>fit that category. Sure, it would be better if the sports writers better understood the drama and
    >>suffering that encompasses a Grand Tour, so they could write about it in a way that their
    >>subscribers could relate to. And Lance *has* helped in that regard, no question. But have Lance
    >>and US Postal done what they can to help cycling in general?
    >>
    >>With Lance's (and US Postal's) success comes, I believe, a responsibility to leverage that success
    >>in a way that benefits competitive cycling in general, not just within the narrow confines of the
    >>Lance or TDF story. US Postal ought to take every opportunity they can to make a big splash with
    >>the Vuelta, including having Lance hype it up as much as possible (quotes like "This guy, Heras,
    >>has been instrumental in helping me win my TDFs... it shows what an incredible athlete he is that
    >>he can come back after that and win the Vuelta. There's more to racing than just the TDF, and not
    >>every bike racing fan in the world speaks French."). Too bad you'll probably never read a quote
    >>like that.
    >>
    >>As Pogo said, "We have met the enemy, and he is us." It's fine to let sports writers and
    >>television producers know that we're here, that we represent numbers (but pray that they don't
    >>actually look at the surveys that show just how small those numbers are!). But we need a strong
    >>local angle if we really want them to pay attention. We need to push the idea that the huge
    >>Hispanic community in the US might have an interest in the great Spanish-speaking bike racers. We
    >>need help from the teams themselves in reaching out to those communities, trying to build a sense
    >>of pride in what "their" athletes are doing. And we need help from US Postal, moving Heras into
    >>the limelight.
    >>
    >>Besides, it just might be Heras in a US Postal uniform winning the TDF in 2005! (Please allow some
    >>wishful thinking that US Postal won't go away when Lance retires.) Wouldn't that be something? A
    >>US-based cycling team led by a native Spanish-speaking cyclist.
    >
    >
    > Are there many Hispanic-Americans who are cycling fans? In that case, a Heras led team would
    > still be good pub for the USPS. Or, if they could land Tyler Hamilton....Imagine: Neither
    > rain nor snow, nor gloom of night, or even broken collarbones, shall keep this cyclist from
    > his appointed tours.

    Don't make this assumption, ever, that hispanic americans feel any bond with spaniards, or
    visa-versa. Spaniards tend to look down upon the product of their own contribution to the north
    american melting pop.

    >>[Confession time: It takes me a while to get into the Vuelta. Try as I might, it's just not nearly
    >>as scenic a race to watch on TV as the Giro or TDF. So much of the racing seems to take place in
    >>almost desert-like terrain, dry and wind-swept. I'm sure it's made worse by the time of year it's
    >>held, and I'm sure that Spain is actually a spectacularly-beautiful place to ride. But from what
    >>I've seen on TV coverage, it just doesn't compare to the Giro or TDF.]
    >>
    >>--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
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