Not enough balls...or too many?

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Tony R, May 2, 2003.

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  1. Tony R

    Tony R Guest

    I recently stripped a front hub (1991 XT) and rather shamefacedly (as I'd serviced it last) found
    that one side had 10 ballbearings and the other 11. Oh well, I thought, there's space for 11 I'll
    replace with 11 - and the new ones came in packs of 22. However.....even more recently I've stripped
    the hubs of my childrens trailer for the first time (Shimano Acera) and all four sets of balls
    number 10 although, again, there is space for 11. As these were supplied like this I assumed it was
    correct. A visit to Shimano's site also indicates 10 for Acera front hubs. Just to be sure I checked
    Sheldon's site (see, I'm getting the hang of this now) and he says "most front hubs" take 10 balls.
    So I re-stripped the XT hub and removed 1 ball from each side thankful to have found my error soon
    enough to prevent any damage. And then.... today, flicking through an old Cycling+, I came across
    their "workshop" article on hub servicing. You have, of course, guessed that it says "use 11 3/16
    bearings in most front hubs". Anyone know the right number for "most front hubs" and more especially
    for a 1991 XT (Hub M730)? The only thing I'm sure of now is that 11 one side and 10 the other is
    definitely not right. Thanks in advance, tony R.
     
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  2. Msa

    Msa Guest

    Damn, I thought you were gonna tell a story about Lance :)


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    Mark
    ____________________________
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  3. A Lee

    A Lee Guest

    tony R <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I recently stripped a front hub (1991 XT) and rather shamefacedly (as I'd serviced it last) found
    > that one side had 10 ballbearings and the other 11. Oh well, I thought, there's space for 11 I'll
    > replace with 11 - and the new ones came in packs of 22. Anyone know the right number for "most
    > front hubs" and more especially for a 1991 XT (Hub M730)? The only thing I'm sure of now is that
    > 11 one side and 10 the other is definitely not right.

    Basically,put them in until there is no space between the balls, then take one out. With uncaged
    ball bearings, there should always be a gap between the loose balls. Alan.

    --
    Change the 'minus' to 'plus' to reply by e-mail. http://www.dvatc.co.uk - Off-road Cycling in the
    North Midlands.
     
  4. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    A Lee wrote:

    > Basically,put them in until there is no space between the balls, then take one out.

    There is always some space unless the balls are riding up on top of each other.

    > With uncaged ball bearings, there should always be a gap between the loose balls.

    But does that gap have to be greater than the diameter of one ball?

    When in doubt, I always simply load as many balls as possible as long as _some_ gap remains.

    ~PB
     
  5. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    tony R wrote:
    > I recently stripped a front hub (1991 XT) and rather shamefacedly (as I'd serviced it last) found
    > that one side had 10 ballbearings and the other 11. Oh well, I thought, there's space for 11 I'll
    > replace with 11 - and the new ones came in packs of 22. However.....even more recently I've
    > stripped the hubs of my childrens trailer for the first time (Shimano Acera) and all four sets of
    > balls number 10 although, again, there is space for 11. As these were supplied like this I assumed
    > it was correct. A visit to Shimano's site also indicates 10 for Acera front hubs. Just to be sure
    > I checked Sheldon's site (see, I'm getting the hang of this now) and he says "most front hubs"
    > take 10 balls.

    Park Tools also say that on their website, and the current XT front has 10 balls in each side.
    Shimano Europe site has no record of M730, though.

    > So I re-stripped the XT hub and removed 1 ball from each side thankful to have found my error soon
    > enough to prevent any damage. And then.... today, flicking through an old Cycling+, I came across
    > their "workshop" article on hub servicing. You have, of course, guessed that it says "use 11 3/16
    > bearings in most front hubs".

    That's C+ for you :-(

    > Anyone know the right number for "most front hubs" and more especially for a 1991 XT (Hub M730)?

    > The only thing I'm sure of now is that 11 one side and 10 the other is definitely not right.

    I'm not :)

    re: My other reply: I might be wrong about stuffing in as many balls as poss (as long as small gap
    remains). Oh dear, what damage have I been doing to things?!

    ~PB
     
  6. I don't think you need a gap, as long as there's room for them. In fact I can recall reading
    somewhere that it's better not to have one (a gap, not a ball!)
     
  7. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "tony R" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I recently stripped a front hub (1991 XT) and rather shamefacedly (as I'd serviced it last) found
    > that one side had 10 ballbearings and the other
    11.
    > Oh well, I thought, there's space for 11 I'll replace with 11 - and the
    new
    > ones came in packs of 22. However.....even more recently I've stripped the hubs of my childrens
    > trailer for the first time (Shimano Acera) and all four sets of balls
    number
    > 10 although, again, there is space for 11. As these were supplied like
    this
    > I assumed it was correct. A visit to Shimano's site also indicates 10 for Acera front hubs. Just
    > to be sure I checked Sheldon's site (see, I'm
    getting
    > the hang of this now) and he says "most front hubs" take 10 balls. So I re-stripped the XT hub and
    > removed 1 ball from each side thankful to have found my error soon enough to prevent any damage.
    > And then.... today, flicking through an old Cycling+, I came across their "workshop" article on
    > hub servicing. You have, of course, guessed that it says "use 11 3/16 bearings in most front
    > hubs". Anyone know the right number for "most front hubs" and more especially for
    a
    > 1991 XT (Hub M730)? The only thing I'm sure of now is that 11 one side and 10 the other is
    > definitely not right. Thanks in advance, tony R.
    >
    >
    >
    OK!!, everyone, count yer balls..... anything to help Tony out ;-)
     
  8. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Fri, 2 May 2003 21:03:36 +0100, "tony R" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Anyone know the right number for "most front hubs" and more especially for a 1991 XT (Hub M730)?

    And of course the exploded view is not on shimano.com, so we're all a bit in the dark :-(

    IME hubs with too many balls in them won't adjust up properly, so if the hub spun freely and had no
    play with 11 balls then it's almost certainly an 11 ball race. The fact that you had 21 balls when
    you dismantled it supports this, so I would be pretty confident you were right the first time.

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
    dynamic DNS permitting)
    NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
    work. Apologies.
     
  9. Tony R

    Tony R Guest

    "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Fri, 2 May 2003 21:03:36 +0100, "tony R" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Anyone know the right number for "most front hubs" and more especially
    for a
    > >1991 XT (Hub M730)?
    >
    > And of course the exploded view is not on shimano.com, so we're all a bit in the dark :-(
    >
    > IME hubs with too many balls in them won't adjust up properly, so if the hub spun freely and
    > had no play with 11 balls then it's almost certainly an 11 ball race. The fact that you had 21
    > balls when you dismantled it supports this, so I would be pretty confident you were right the
    > first time.
    >
    > Guy
    > ===

    This was pretty much my thinking until I saw the inside of the Acera hubs which Shimano say take 10.
    The space left in these is the same as if I put 10 in the XT ie: enough for 1 ball plus a tiny bit.
    As far as the adjustment goes there's no play and it spins freely now (with 10) and I have to say
    the wheel didn't spin quite so freely before (with 11). However, inbetween times I read Sheldon's
    info on hub adjustment and spent far more time getting it just right. It's more than likely that it
    just wasn't as well adjusted previously and this could have caused the tightness. I don't think I'll
    look inside the rear hub for a while..... thanks to all for the replies, tony R.
     
  10. Pete Jones

    Pete Jones Guest

    On Fri, 2 May 2003 21:03:36 +0100, "tony R" <[email protected]> blathered:

    >I recently stripped a front hub (1991 XT) and rather shamefacedly (as I'd serviced it last) found
    >that one side had 10 ballbearings and the other 11. Oh well, I thought, there's space for 11 I'll
    >replace with 11 - and the new ones came in packs of 22. However.....even more recently I've
    >stripped the hubs of my childrens trailer for the first time (Shimano Acera) and all four sets of
    >balls number 10 although, again, there is space for 11. As these were supplied like this I assumed
    >it was correct. A visit to Shimano's site also indicates 10 for Acera front hubs. Just to be sure I
    >checked Sheldon's site (see, I'm getting the hang of this now) and he says "most front hubs" take
    >10 balls. So I re-stripped the XT hub and removed 1 ball from each side thankful to have found my
    >error soon enough to prevent any damage. And then.... today, flicking through an old Cycling+, I
    >came across their "workshop" article on hub servicing. You have, of course, guessed that it says
    >"use 11 3/16 bearings in most front hubs". Anyone know the right number for "most front hubs" and
    >more especially for a 1991 XT (Hub M730)? The only thing I'm sure of now is that 11 one side and 10
    >the other is definitely not right.

    Every Shimano hub I've serviced has had had 10 balls front, 9 balls rear. Been doing that for 14
    years, last done a couple of weeks ago.

    Pete
    ----
    http://www.btinternet.com/~peteajones/
     
  11. J-P.S

    J-P.S Guest

    On Sat, 3 May 2003 08:06:56 +0100, Gearóid Ó Laoi, Garry Lee scrawled: ) I don't think you need a
    gap, as long as there's room for them. In fact I ) can recall reading somewhere that it's better not
    to have one (a gap, not a ) ball!)

    There should be at least enough space that adjacent balls can spin in the same sense without
    grinding on each other: if you have to click the last ball in place then I suppose in principle they
    will wear out against each other much more quickly.

    The general principle of "fill it up, remove one" seems sound enough. It's at least fail-safe
    insofar as the possibility of cramming is concerned.

    J-P
    --
    We're having a ball, yeah We're having a ball, yeah The more we trust we're used, the more we love
    we're bruised
     
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