Now that we all agree: recumbents are the fastest bikes...

[Jayne Findhorn]

Anybody else get mismarked Tamer products?

Bought a Tamer shim sizer seatpost that was "28.6 mm" on the box but what I got was a 31.4mm. Wasted
three trips to get it. What unbelievably poor quality control at Tamer Company!

Later I decided to simply glue two cushy rubber pads to the sit-bones area on my saddle. That was
good enough!

Imagine, a "Poor Richard's Suspension" from just pieces of rubber! It looks weird, but it works
wonderfully.

 

[Paul Southworth]

In article <[email protected]>, Fabrizio Mazzoleni
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Brent Burton" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> Yawn. Bike builders have far from given up on 4130.
>>
>Talking about steel frames puts me to sleep also.
>
>Guys who ride at my level have long ago given up on 4130 and all the other steel alloy frames.
>
>You'll only find those on Walmart bikes.

I was just in Wal-Mart to pick up a Colnago Master X-Light earlier today but they only had that
damned US flag paint scheme. But at least they said it was made in the USA.

 

[B. Sanders]

"Mark Hickey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Eric S. Sande" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >It is remotely possible that recumbent low racers (especially the cool carbon ones) could become
> >a viable platform. After all, one only needs to look at a typical MTB or similar to recognize
> >that hype and availability supersede practicality.

Marketing begets hype, which drives sales, which obviates availability, which creates familiarity,
which spreads acceptance, which drives sales, etc. It's marketing driven.

> >They ain't optimized for the mission, unless your mission is to ride fast on the flat open road.
> >That is often my desire, but I can't accept the tradeoff of utility, convenience, and carrying
> >capacity that I have come to expect from the least of my bikes.

Maybe your DF road bike is more utilitarian than mine: No rack eyelets, no fender mounts,
superlight, skinny tires.

> The MTB is to the road bike what a road bike is to a low racer.
>
> You give up a little speed with the MTB compared to a road bike, and gain great utility (in the
> ability to ride through terrain your road bike wouldn't be at all suited for, easily ride the
> steepest hills).

Since most road bike riding is done on open roads, the lowracer is roughly equivalent to a DF
road bike.

> The cool thing about MTBs is that people who'd never consider buying a road bike end up with one
> because they start to realize a) roadies are faster than they are on non-technical trails and/or
> b) all bikes are cool.

Not sure what this is supposed to mean, exactly; but I agree that all bikes are cool. Well, all
except for the Huffy's produced by endentured laborers under sweatshop conditions. I have all kinds
of bikes, and like 'em all. Just wish the US retailers would wake up to the potential for
race-oriented recumbent sales. I think the Europeans are getting the jump on that market in a big
way, as the US did for mountain bikes a couple of decades ago (yes, it's been that long).

-Barry

 

[B. Sanders]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> Andrew Douglas wrote:
> >
> > Ed, how old are you?
> >
> > Have you started having back pain yet?
> >
> > If not, you will. Trust me on this. Like many of the other marvelous changes that accompany
> > middle age, it's something that's terribly difficult to avoid.
> >
> > Sorry, but creatures with spinal columns are NOT designed to work best in an upright position.
> > Take a poll of people you know who are over age
> > 40. Ask how many have had back problems. Draw your own conclusions.
>
> The onset of back pain can be hastened by bending over 1200 times an hour, 11 hours a day, 5 days
> a week.

I have to ask: What kind of hellish job fits this description? 1200 times an hour? Huh?

-Barry

 

[B. Sanders]

"Klaus Zeiter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > The MTB is to the road bike what a road bike is to a low racer.
>
> That would only be the case for a bicycle builder with limited knowledge like the person who made
> this statement.
>
> A poorly built heavy lowracer is not the same as a high performance carbon model.
>
> http://mypage.bluewin.ch/merlinbike/
>
> Those with limited knowledge of recumbent design who attempt to build lowracers do not succeed
> until they have raced recumbents extensively in Europe and developed their bikes in the process.
> We have been racing the lowracer in Europe for many years and can build recumbents that are suited
> for racing and everyday use as well. We also ride in the Alpine region which is not flat like the
> Netherlands.

Wow! Klaus, that Merlin is one sweet looking machine! Are you looking for a US distributor?

I've been designing carbon fiber bikes since the 1970's; but they were pipe dreams. This new crop of
carbon lowracers is beyond anything I ever imagined. It's genius.

Barry

 

[B. Sanders]

"Torben Scheel" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > If people want something it will be created for them in a trice. The stores of this country are
> > full of ****. I am always thinking, how could anyone want this junk? But I am wrong and they are
> > right. If it sells, people want it. If it doesn't sell, people don't want it. Let us be grateful
> > that you and I are intelligent enough to want something worth having, but the masses have spoken
> > loud and clear, and they don't want recumbents.
>
> I disagree. Most people like to buy new stuff, and buys what they see is available. I even got a
> small infection of the buing-itch yesterday in a
DF

> varieties of nice recumbents, they would get the same itch.

You are spot-on, Torben. That is exactly right.

The dullards of the world want "sameness." Everybody else wants some degree

bikes are right over the top. The desire factor with carbon lowracers tempts people to foolish
spending behavior (ask me how I know...) They look incredibly fast - like a two-wheeled McClaren F1
for 1/300th the price. Who can resist something that beautiful? Carbon is magical stuff. The subtle
woven patterns scintillate as the light moves across the satin surface. The dark grey color is
mysterious. It says "power" and "high technology" all over it. You pick it up, and it's light as a
feather, defying visual perception. The beefy look of the big boom tubes make lowracers begin to
look more like speed-record automobiles, or sleek aircraft. Carbon lowracers look like something the
military developed in a skunkworks for high-speed stealth missions.

As I've said before, the problem with the US recumbent market is that US

perception. Carbon lowracers are the kind of bike that ignites the fuse to cause a sales explosion.
When local newspapers and magazines start carrying stories of the sleek new bikes and how racers are
winning races with them, people will take notice.

-Barry

 

[Fabrizio Mazzol]

"Paul Southworth" <[email protected]> wrote in message A%3>
> I was just in Wal-Mart to pick up a Colnago Master X-Light

The Wal-Mart crowd are the ones riding the X-light frames, us serious guys are racing only on frames
like the C40.

 

[Tom Sherman]

"Eric S. Sande" wrote:
> ... Recumbent low racers are a niche thing, and it's clear that they have their adherents. But
> they don't suit my current needs for transport. Yes they are cool. Yes they are expensive. Yes I'd
> love to try one out.
>
> But I remain unconvinced. In my applications they are clearly not the platform of choice, no case
> hase been made IMHO that they offer a significant benefit for either the traffic riding or touring
> that I feel are fairly typical of my riding....

Most importantly, lowracers are the most fun type of single-track human powered vehicle to ride.
As they can be more practical than many of the upright road bikes I see, i.e. those lacking mounting
points for racks and clearance for wider tires and fenders.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

 

[Tom Sherman]

Fabrizio Mazzoleni wrote:
>
> "Brent Burton" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Yawn. Bike builders have far from given up on 4130.
> >
> Talking about steel frames puts me to sleep also.
>
> Guys who ride at my level have long ago given up on 4130 and all the other steel alloy frames.
>
> You'll only find those on Walmart bikes.

I suspect most bikes for sale at walmart have frames made from 1018 or a similar plain carbon steel.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

 

[Tom Sherman]

Mikael Seierup wrote:
>
> "Eric S. Sande" skrev...
> > They ain't optimized for the mission, unless your mission is to ride fast on the flat open road.
> > That is often my desire, but I can't accept the tradeoff of utility, convenience, and carrying
> > capacity that I have come to expect from the least of my bikes.
>
> Low racers are built to go fast on the open road AFAIK. If you want to compare them to anything it
> should be skinnytired roadbikes with no racks and fenders etc. If you really want you could put
> fenders and a rack/tailbox on both the roadbike and lowracer or even get a trailer and go touring.
> But it would be like using a racehorse for hauling a garbagecart. If you want to commute in
> traffic or go touring there are recumbents built for that purpose just like you have MTB/citybikes
> and touring DF's....

The original owner of my lowracer toured in the Alps with it. I guess he was ignorant of the fact
that lowracers climb poorly and are too impractical for touring.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

 

[Tom Sherman]

"B. Sanders" wrote:
>
> > The onset of back pain can be hastened by bending over 1200 times an hour, 11 hours a day, 5
> > days a week.
>
> I have to ask: What kind of hellish job fits this description? 1200 times an hour? Huh?

Barry,

Ride west on Springfield Avenue and you will find the answer in the large blue building on the north
side of the road between the concrete batch plant and the I-57 overpass. When I worked there in
1992-1993, I received the high pay of $4.65/hour (with no benefits). I also stood on my feet all day
(and suffered from chronic foot pain in addition to my chronic back pain) and was up on a mezzanine
where the temperature was typically 100-105 F (~38-42 C).

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

 

[Tom Sherman]

"B. Sanders" wrote:
> ... Wow! Klaus, that Merlin is one sweet looking machine! Are you looking for a US distributor?...

The Merlin [1] looks to be very similar to the (non-production) Razz-Fazz [2]. Cross-pollination of
ideas in the European HPV racing community?

[1] < http://mypage.bluewin.ch/merlinbike/Seite3_x.jpg >
[2] < http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/misc/RazzFazz.jpg >

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

 

[John Foltz]

Mikael Seierup wrote:
> "John Foltz" skrev
>
>
>>I'm a bit jealous in that 'the Boss' won't let me get another bike for a couple of years.
>
>
> Bruce Springsteen? Whats it to him?
>
>

Bruce is "The Boss." The little lady is "the Boss." Then there's my supervisor at work - he's "the
boss." Hmm... I see a pattern here. I NEVER get to be boss...

--

John Foltz --- O _ Baron --- _O _ V-Rex 24/63 --- _\\/\-%)
_________(_)`=()___________________(_)= (_)_____

 

[Tom Sherman]

Torben Scheel wrote:
>
> > area? If so, here is a picture of a silly person (not the owner) demonstrating the light weight
> > of the Velokraft (20.5 lbs. or ~9.5 kg mass).
>
> Sone weight saving potential in the picture.. ;-)

When I was in graduate school and regularly riding an average of about 160 miles (~250 km) a week, I
had about 1 slug (15 kg) less personal mass.

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

 

[Frank Krygowski]

archer wrote:
>
> In article <GSusa.34906$A%[email protected]>, cnhyf-
> [email protected] says...
>
> ...
>
> > >I'm getting the impression more strongly every year that less touring is going on because more
> > >cyclists are afraid of our increased levels of traffic. On the one hand, it feels kind of
> > >reasonable, on the other hand, youth is still fearless nad invulnerable, isn't it?
> >
> > Youth has always been fearless and invulnerable but has not always been so obese and sedentary.
> > I don't think fear of cars is at the bottom of that problem.
>
> As a parent, I _know_ that part (not all) of the reason is the parents' fear of crime against
> their kid. I have personally heard other parents saying that they don't let their kids go out of
> the neighborhood on their bikes, specifically for that reason. When I was a kid, neither I nor my
> parents gave a second thought to the chance of me being kidnapped, and I rode all over town (it
> was either that or walk).

IIRC, the incidence of such crimes is no higher than it's ever been. Our "culture of fear" is just
making more noise about it - to the detriment of society.

Likewise, it's now considered foolish (by many) to let a kid play in a playground without
rubber-padded ground! Of course, those folks think nobody should ever move on any wheeled vehicle
without wearing a special hat, plus perhaps elbow and knee pads. Sports must be played only when
adults are around to supervise (and berate kids into either excellence or quitting). Children
younger than 7 must _never_ be allowed out of an adult's sight... and on and on.

The only safety is to be found inside the air-conditioned house or car, preferably gazing at a
television screen or Game Boy.

--
Frank Krygowski [email protected]

 

[Frank Krygowski]

Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> Most importantly, lowracers are the most fun type of single-track human powered vehicle to
> ride.

Surely, that's a VERY individual judgement, no?

It's akin to saying "My favorite band plays the best music of all!"

--
Frank Krygowski [email protected]

 

[Frank Krygowski]

Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> The original owner of my lowracer toured in the Alps with it. I guess he was ignorant of the fact
> that lowracers climb poorly and are too impractical for touring.

One extreme example proves little. Thomas Stevens rode around the world on an ordinary (that is, a
high-wheeler).

--
Frank Krygowski [email protected]

 

[Frank Krygowski]

"B. Sanders" wrote:
>
> Just wish the US retailers would wake up to the potential for race-oriented recumbent sales. I
> think the Europeans are getting the jump on that market in a big way...

I'd be curious about European sales figures for race-oriented recumbents. I'd especially like to see
them expressed as percentages of total bike sales. That would help in evaluating how big a jump
Europeans have, and what the potential market really is.

--
Frank Krygowski [email protected]

 

[Frank Krygowski]

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> I could have referred to those who do those sort of things by a term other than clown, but I was
> being polite and a gentleman.

You may have been attempting that, but you failed badly. I stand by my evaluation of your biking and
social skills.

--
Frank Krygowski [email protected]

 

[Bernie]

Jayne Findhorn wrote:

> Anybody else get mismarked Tamer products?
>
> Bought a Tamer shim sizer seatpost that was "28.6 mm" on the box but what I got was a 31.4mm.
> Wasted three trips to get it. What unbelievably poor quality control at Tamer Company!
>
> Later I decided to simply glue two cushy rubber pads to the sit-bones area on my saddle. That was
> good enough!
>
> Imagine, a "Poor Richard's Suspension" from just pieces of rubber! It looks weird, but it works
> wonderfully.

Shhhh!!! you could get rich on a simple idea like that.