NSW Police at it again



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Gistane

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It seems our friends the Police have decided that there will be no racing allowed on Sydney Metropolitan roads unless they are fully blocked off or they have Police escort. This information i have heard through the grapevine from a meeting the NSW Cycling Federation has had on the 12/06/03.

Guess the sport of Cycling in Sydney just took another turn for the worse because we simply dont have off road circuits to cater for the cyclists in Sydney and especially in the West/ South West areas of Sydney.

I dont have full details or anything on it but maybe other people may. I find this discusting how bad Sydney has become for cyclign now and its a real shame.

I would love to know the real reasoning behind why they see such a problem for racing the current way that most clubs do and why other states have no problems with it at all.
 
"Gistane" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> It seems our friends the Police have decided that there will be no racing allowed on Sydney
> Metropolitan roads unless they are fully blocked off or they have Police escort. This information
> i have heard through the grapevine from a meeting the NSW Cycling Federation has had on the
> 12/06/03.
>
> Guess the sport of Cycling in Sydney just took another turn for the worse because we simply dont
> have off road circuits to cater for the cyclists in Sydney and especially in the West/ South West
> areas of Sydney.
>
> I dont have full details or anything on it but maybe other people may. I find this discusting how
> bad Sydney has become for cyclign now and its a real shame.
>
> I would love to know the real reasoning behind why they see such a problem for racing the current
> way that most clubs do and why other states have no problems with it at all.
>
>

I don't think NSW is alone. The Melb-Ballarat has been cancelled due to not being able to secure a
permit. My gut feel is at this rate, we will end up using racing car circuits for bicycle races,
when we can get on them, and the cost per race will be high to cover the rent.

I feel for all the volunteer committe members on clubs who have to work so hard to overcome
these issues.
 
seems like the government wants money from everyone doing anything these days.


whats next? u have to have a license to use a wheelchair?
u have to have a permit to mow your lawn?
u must pay extra if you wish to flush your toilet more than twice daily?
 
Originally posted by Twisties
seems like the government wants money from everyone doing anything these days.


whats next? u have to have a license to use a wheelchair?
u have to have a permit to mow your lawn?
u must pay extra if you wish to flush your toilet more than twice daily?

Yuck! That really stinks. You forgot that as of yet no one has thought to charge for walking on the footpath. But give it a few weeks and some evil wannabe will see this post.

This is capitalism at it's best. Governments at all levels seem to beleive that they must profit or perish. Don't they realize that they're there to provide essential services. They're not there to make a profit.
 
well said.


dont forget about making a fee to pay on the air you breath. its not costing the government anything to let us breath it but what a great way to make money! no1 can live with out air, so, lets make a profit out of it!
 
Twisties <[email protected]> wrote in news:3ee96160$1_2 @news.chariot.net.au:

> seems like the government wants money from everyone doing anything these days.

Have to get it from somewhere, you seen how big the Social Security bill alone is ?

> u have to have a permit to mow your lawn?

GST covers that, you pay for it on fuel, mower, parts etc :)

> u must pay extra if you wish to flush your toilet more than twice daily?

Nearly all local councils charge you more for the increased water you use, so yes in fact, many
flushs = increreased rates :)

That we have grey water recycling on residential houses as a cumpolsory part of our building code in
the driest continent in the world is a mystery ;)

I am sure if the Government thought they could get away with it, you would give them your entire
salary and they would pay you an allowance as they saw fit :)

Trevor S
 
Trevor S wrote:

...snip....

> Have to get it from somewhere, you seen how big the Social Security bill alone is ?

Yep, it is all those useless IT people they employ. they could save a bungle by sacking the lot of
them and employing all the unemployed.

Anyway, nothing compared to the corporate welfare that goes on in this country. Manildra Flour?

--
Terry Collins {:)}}} email: terryc at woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au Wombat Outdoor
Adventures <Bicycles, Computers, GIS, Printing,
Publishing>

"People without trees are like fish without clean water"
 
...snip....
:
: > Have to get it from somewhere, you seen how big the Social Security bill alone is ?
:
: Yep, it is all those useless IT people they employ. they could save a bungle by sacking the lot of
: them and employing all the unemployed.
:
: Anyway, nothing compared to the corporate welfare that goes on in this country. Manildra Flour?
:

Hmmm. Sack a heap of people in an industry already struggling (second biggest collapse of an
industry next to the farming industry due to drought) and then replacing them with the unemployed.
Where are all the IT people going to work. I would think they would be then unemployed. You should
go into politics.

Peter
 
John Doe wrote:

...snip...

My comment really related to the quality of the work these "IT professionals" are producing. Mainly
related to government webpages that work reliably only with a particular browser on a particular
operating system. However, I understand Friday the 13th had a few of the IT minions in a flap as the
Centrelink/DEIR(?)/Job Network staff all twiddled their thumbs for some time.

> Hmmm. Sack a heap of people in an industry already struggling (second biggest collapse of an
> industry next to the farming industry due to drought) and then replacing them with the unemployed.
> Where are all the IT people going to work. I would think they would be then unemployed. You should
> go into politics.

IT employment as you knew it is going to get worse. We are doomed to have an oversupply of "IT
professionals" for the next decade +. For the last couple of year, educational institutions at all
levels have been turning out "trained" IT people in over abundance.

I've already seen many degree trained entry level positions for ~$20K pa. Five years ago,
it was $35K.

It is going to get worse. Our local TAFE college has tried to retrench teachers of welding, panel
work, machining, horticulture and hospitality. These are all areas where there is local employment
that requires their qualification.

They want to replace these with more IT courses. The reason given was because all an IT course
requires is a desk and a computer. There is a bare minimum of IT employment locally. All these IT
trained people will have to commute into Sydney CBD (60minutes).

Of course, there will be IT people who are doing well because they are in a niche that takes time
for people to migrate into. Eventually some of this wave will wash out their niche (or it will
shrivel like DEC Vax, CPM, NCR, HP?, etc).

Commodisation (sp?) is another factor that is bitting away at IT employment. For the last 15 years
"supermarkets" have been eating into the small end/SOHO. Harvey Norman was first when they started
selling software, at prices lower that a lot of small shops can buy it. Now we have Aldi and
Strathfield Car Radios selling computer hardware way cheaper than the small guys can purchase it.

Don't think this doesn't flow upwards either. More companies can still see the value of buying brand
name CPU boxes, but are adding on yum-cha hard disks and cases to enhance these boxes. Why pay
$1,000 for a HP Scsi CD burner, when you can get a CD burner for under $200?

Support: I know of one local company that is planning on doing away with their IT monkey and
existing suppliers and going to contract support. The owner thinks he can get good service from
these kids advertising "we come to you" computer support for $17/hour.

The bottom line is that IT is like other areas and continually changing. Consider transport. We
walked first, horses worked well for a while (but choked cities with manure), bicycle made a splurge
throughout the country (shearers, circumnavigate the world) and displaced horses in cities (BHP
steel works 19th/20th century), public/mass transport struggles on and the motor car currently
drowns our western societies in metal, plastic, fumes and dead, dying and injured people.

--
Terry Collins {:)}}} email: terryc at woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au Wombat Outdoor
Adventures <Bicycles, Computers, GIS, Printing,
Publishing>

"People without trees are like fish without clean water"
 
IT employment as you knew it is going to get worse. We are doomed to
: have an oversupply of "IT professionals" for the next decade +. For the last couple of year,
: educational institutions at all levels have been turning out "trained" IT people in over
: abundance.

Yes I realise this. The boom in IT caused an avalanche of high school graduates hit the UNIs/TAFES
for qualification. Only to have that boom disappear with a bust and a surge in outsourcing to
countries with an even worse oversupply like India. Support engineers in India are often trained to
speak with different accents so people

: I've already seen many degree trained entry level positions for ~$20K pa. Five years ago, it
: was $35K.

I saw an add recently for a 5year C++ MCSD with a C++ major advertised for
35k. Now someone will actually take that job worse luck.

: have to commute into Sydney CBD (60minutes).
:

I do that. 120mins each way but 60mins is on a bike so I dont count that as I enjoy the bike.
Although somedays you just want to be home and the thought of riding for an hour to get home is not
pleasant when you can hardly keep your eyes open and sitting on a train for an hour.

: Of course, there will be IT people who are doing well because they are in a niche that takes time
: for people to migrate into. Eventually some of this wave will wash out their niche (or it will
: shrivel like DEC Vax, CPM, NCR, HP?, etc).

Add .net here. There is a few jobs based on .Net populating the career sites and collegues of mine
have been going for interviews. However people will notice this trend and therefore rush to get
cerified in .net and then once again this niche will disappear as you have said.
:

The rest of your arguments are well thought and I totally agree. Obviously you work in the area or
at least read a lot of IT news.

Peter
 
On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:43:47 +1000, Terry Collins wrote:

> My comment really related to the quality of the work these "IT professionals" are producing.

The government sector employes contractors based on lowest rate, not skill set. You get what
you pay for.

> It is going to get worse.

I'm not so sure.

With the web boom, (on the back of Y2k lets not forget), there was a huge demand, and even
'para-professionals' could get good money. You could walk out of uni/colledge with a diploma, handle
some HTML and land a contract at 40-60 $/hour.

These days all those jobs are paying 18-25 $/h, and there is a huge oversupply in the low end. But
in the higher end, there are still decent jobs for experienced people.

> They want to replace these with more IT courses. The reason given was because all an IT course
> requires is a desk and a computer. There is a bare minimum of IT employment locally. All these IT
> trained people will have to commute into Sydney CBD (60minutes).

The problem is their definition of IT. There is no distinction like labourer / tradesman / builder /
architect - you're lucky if you get labled as anything other than "a computer person".

Oh, and 60 minute commute ... *luxury* (although I choose to live this far from Sydney)

> Of course, there will be IT people who are doing well because they are in a niche that takes time
> for people to migrate into. Eventually some of this wave will wash out their niche (or it will
> shrivel like DEC Vax, CPM, NCR, HP?, etc).

Niche yes, but only in part. People do well because they are bloody good at what they do. I fscking
hate working with people who "do IT" because it is (was) a "good job". If they don't like it I wish
they'd just ********. Me, I love it. I program recreationally between contracts.

> Support: I know of one local company that is planning on doing away with their IT monkey and
> existing suppliers and going to contract support. The owner thinks he can get good service from
> these kids advertising "we come to you" computer support for $17/hour.

Maybe their monkey is just that. Does he need a better monkey. Outsourcing at this level might even
work - but if he's replacing more than one monkey I doubt it. Your IP/IT is part of your business
knowledge - do you want someone else to have it (and not you).

Anyway - this is getting way off-topic...

We went for a nice club-ride today, but the bloody wind was howling across the plain - it catches
the kids trailer like a bloody parachute!

So we escaped the wind by riding through a *hilly* forest area ;)

It was good.

-kt
 
John Doe wrote:

...snip....
> Obviously you work in the area or at least read a lot of IT news.

I "worked" until I aged. Now I'm examining third careers.

IT News isn't that aware. I'm still reading articles about IT Skills Shortages <shudder>.

--
Terry Collins {:)}}} email: terryc at woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au Wombat Outdoor
Adventures <Bicycles, Computers, GIS, Printing,
Publishing>

"People without trees are like fish without clean water"
 
On 13 Jun 2003 09:00:00 +0950, Gistane <[email protected]> wrote:

>It seems our friends the Police have decided that there will be no racing allowed on Sydney
>Metropolitan roads unless they are fully blocked off or they have Police escort. This information i
>have heard

Aren't roads meant for transportation, not racing? Personally, I don't have a problem with the
requirement that a road needs to be properly blocked off (with all relevant permissions) in order
for a race to be run.

Surely it is dangerous for the participants, to try and race while mixing it with traffic or
pedestrians?

Or have I misunderstood what is actually happening?

---
Cheers

PeterC

[Rushing headlong: out of control - and there ain't no stopping]
[and there's nothing you can do about it at all]
 
This all seems to be cause something is stated in the rules that a Bicycle is classed as a vehicle and it states that no vehicle is allowed to race on the roads (well something like this)

Most other states have had this fixed though and bicycles are not included in this..

Most club racing on public roads are held in quite good safety as it is a prerequisite that you have marshalls on the corners that are RTA approved to be able to stop traffic.


Originally posted by Peter Cremasco
On 13 Jun 2003 09:00:00 +0950, Gistane <[email protected]> wrote:

>It seems our friends the Police have decided that there will be no racing allowed on Sydney
>Metropolitan roads unless they are fully blocked off or they have Police escort. This information i
>have heard

Aren't roads meant for transportation, not racing? Personally, I don't have a problem with the
requirement that a road needs to be properly blocked off (with all relevant permissions) in order
for a race to be run.

Surely it is dangerous for the participants, to try and race while mixing it with traffic or
pedestrians?

Or have I misunderstood what is actually happening?

---
Cheers

PeterC

[Rushing headlong: out of control - and there ain't no stopping]
[and there's nothing you can do about it at all]
 
Gistane <[email protected]> wrote:

>It seems our friends the Police have decided that there will be no racing allowed on Sydney
>Metropolitan roads unless they are fully blocked off or they have Police escort. This information i
>have heard through the grapevine from a meeting the NSW Cycling Federation has had on the 12/06/03.

I think you'll find racing of any type, with any type of vehicle, is prohibited on public roads
unless special dispensation is granted.
 
Originally posted by Jarkko Altonen
Gistane <[email protected]> wrote:

>It seems our friends the Police have decided that there will be no racing allowed on Sydney
>Metropolitan roads unless they are fully blocked off or they have Police escort. This information i
>have heard through the grapevine from a meeting the NSW Cycling Federation has had on the 12/06/03.

I think you'll find racing of any type, with any type of vehicle, is prohibited on public roads
unless special dispensation is granted.

Gistane,
You might like to check out the latest issue of Australian Cyclist. There is an article abut Bargo, a small town about 60km south of Sydney. Their council has decided to target cycling as a means of attracting weekend dollars to their town. I think they are hosting a national juniors event later this year. It might be an avenue for other small towns close to large urban sprawls to pick up on - it would also give us a change of scenery and some fresher air during our competitions.
I think it is unrealistic for us to expect to tie up weekend traffic on the major city roads, but equally, the authorities must meet us halfway when responsible clubs wish to apply for permits to use quieter urban roads for a couple of hours on weekends.
Tezza:confused:
 
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