numb fingers / hand/ wrist / shoulder pain



K

Ken

Guest
I just started riding a hardtailed mtb with flat bars and I have far more
pain while riding this bike than when riding a road bike, but I like the
wide bars and the more upright position of the flat bars. My thumbs go numb,
my left more than my right. I have tried with cycling gloves, without
cycling gloves. With my elbows kept low and bent, with them straight and
locked. With hands in several different positions, on the bars, on the end
bars. I am running out of ideas. There is only a couple of other things I
can think of to try. (1) new grips? The ones I have are the originals I
think, not to high quality. (2) raising the bars higher using a stem
extender that I have hanging around.

Any suggestions?

Ken

--
Remove "-dispose-trash" for email address
My personal webstie: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/
My blog: http://mind-dribble.blogspot.com/
 
On Tue, 10 May 2005 16:13:50 -0400, "Ken"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I just started riding a hardtailed mtb with flat bars and I have far more
>pain while riding this bike than when riding a road bike, but I like the
>wide bars and the more upright position of the flat bars. My thumbs go numb,
>my left more than my right. I have tried with cycling gloves, without
>cycling gloves. With my elbows kept low and bent, with them straight and
>locked. With hands in several different positions, on the bars, on the end
>bars. I am running out of ideas. There is only a couple of other things I
>can think of to try. (1) new grips? The ones I have are the originals I
>think, not to high quality. (2) raising the bars higher using a stem
>extender that I have hanging around.
>
>Any suggestions?
>
>Ken


My first thought is that maybe your handlebar is too wide. The distance
between your hands on a road bike is fairly close together judging by my
hybrid and my road bike. Of course the upshot is that with a wider grip you
are forced to rotate your hands towards the outside, which might be causing
a change in pressure.

While it's not uncommon to trim the bar width on straightbar handlebars a
few inches on each end, but I can't really recommend such a solution since
it's not reversible. Might be worth measuring the distance between your
hands on each bike as you take the most common grip and go from there.

jet
 
"jj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 16:13:50 -0400, "Ken"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I just started riding a hardtailed mtb with flat bars and I have far more
> >pain while riding this bike than when riding a road bike, but I like the
> >wide bars and the more upright position of the flat bars. My thumbs go

numb,
> >my left more than my right. I have tried with cycling gloves, without
> >cycling gloves. With my elbows kept low and bent, with them straight and
> >locked. With hands in several different positions, on the bars, on the

end
> >bars. I am running out of ideas. There is only a couple of other things I
> >can think of to try. (1) new grips? The ones I have are the originals I
> >think, not to high quality. (2) raising the bars higher using a stem
> >extender that I have hanging around.
> >
> >Any suggestions?
> >
> >Ken

>
> My first thought is that maybe your handlebar is too wide. The distance
> between your hands on a road bike is fairly close together judging by my
> hybrid and my road bike. Of course the upshot is that with a wider grip

you
> are forced to rotate your hands towards the outside, which might be

causing
> a change in pressure.
>
> While it's not uncommon to trim the bar width on straightbar handlebars a
> few inches on each end, but I can't really recommend such a solution since
> it's not reversible. Might be worth measuring the distance between your
> hands on each bike as you take the most common grip and go from there.
>
> jet
>


I had thought of that. The bars being too wide. Fortunately, this bike came
with some *spare* parts including a spare set of bars! So I was thinking of
chopping a few inches off the ends of the bars and see if that makes a
difference.

Ken
 
Ken wrote:
>
> I just started riding a hardtailed mtb with flat bars and I have far more
> pain while riding this bike than when riding a road bike, but I like the
> wide bars and the more upright position of the flat bars. My thumbs go numb,
> my left more than my right. I have tried with cycling gloves, without
> cycling gloves. With my elbows kept low and bent, with them straight and
> locked. With hands in several different positions, on the bars, on the end
> bars. I am running out of ideas. There is only a couple of other things I
> can think of to try. (1) new grips? The ones I have are the originals I
> think, not to high quality. (2) raising the bars higher using a stem
> extender that I have hanging around.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Ken
>
> --
> Remove "-dispose-trash" for email address
> My personal webstie: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/
> My blog: http://mind-dribble.blogspot.com/




I've always wondered if those straight bars induce strain. Gripping them
rotates forearms and shoulder sockets, forces elbows out. Unnatural, IMHO.
 
On Tue, 10 May 2005 17:01:32 -0400, "Ken"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> While it's not uncommon to trim the bar width on straightbar handlebars a
>> few inches on each end, but I can't really recommend such a solution since
>> it's not reversible. Might be worth measuring the distance between your
>> hands on each bike as you take the most common grip and go from there.
>>
>> jet
>>

>
>I had thought of that. The bars being too wide. Fortunately, this bike came
>with some *spare* parts including a spare set of bars! So I was thinking of
>chopping a few inches off the ends of the bars and see if that makes a
>difference.
>
>Ken


If you had to guess, just how much pressure are you putting on the
handlebars of your roadbike?

How much pressure are you putting on the straightbar bike, by comparison?

Without altering position, can you easily remove one hand, say, to wave at
a passing truck without swerving? That's one of the tests I use. If I'm
gripping too hard, the bike tries to swerve. Obviously do the first test
with an imaginary truck. ;-)

If indeed you're not swerving on the road bike and swerving on the s/b
bike, then you've got a substantial difference in pressure.

IMO, you should really not be 'leaning' on the handlebars anyway. The
larger amount of pressure should be on the pedals, not the saddle or the
bars.

jet
 
On Tue, 10 May 2005 21:14:17 GMT, Michael <[email protected]> wrote:

>Ken wrote:
>>
>> I just started riding a hardtailed mtb with flat bars and I have far more
>> pain while riding this bike than when riding a road bike, but I like the
>> wide bars and the more upright position of the flat bars. My thumbs go numb,
>> my left more than my right. I have tried with cycling gloves, without
>> cycling gloves. With my elbows kept low and bent, with them straight and
>> locked. With hands in several different positions, on the bars, on the end
>> bars. I am running out of ideas. There is only a couple of other things I
>> can think of to try. (1) new grips? The ones I have are the originals I
>> think, not to high quality. (2) raising the bars higher using a stem
>> extender that I have hanging around.
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> --
>> Remove "-dispose-trash" for email address
>> My personal webstie: http://kcm-home.tripod.com/
>> My blog: http://mind-dribble.blogspot.com/

>
>
>
>I've always wondered if those straight bars induce strain. Gripping them
>rotates forearms and shoulder sockets, forces elbows out. Unnatural, IMHO.


I agree; similar to a regular keyboard vs an ergo board (though I have no
troubles there). The wider grip and the rotation of the hands can have
multiple effects - as you spread your grip, you have to lean further
forward, which changes the weight distribution, perhaps causing just enough
additional strain to show up as numbness due to pressure on the nerves in
the palm.

jet
 
Ken wrote:
> I just started riding a hardtailed mtb with flat bars and I have far more
> pain while riding this bike than when riding a road bike, but I like the
> wide bars and the more upright position of the flat bars. My thumbs go numb,
> my left more than my right. I have tried with cycling gloves, without
> cycling gloves. With my elbows kept low and bent, with them straight and
> locked. With hands in several different positions, on the bars, on the end
> bars. I am running out of ideas. There is only a couple of other things I
> can think of to try. (1) new grips? The ones I have are the originals I
> think, not to high quality. (2) raising the bars higher using a stem
> extender that I have hanging around.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Ken
>

That sounds like my experience with long trips on a MTB. If I can find a
good stretch of road I just sit up and ride no hands for a while during
which time I shake my hands to get some blood going again. Our road bike
friends may have a point that more positions are better but I don't want
to put those silly looking horns back on the bike. Some of my numbness
comes from having a death grip on the bars on some of my off road stuff
but I still get it when just pedaling down the asphalt. On the other end
I have had to pedal fast then stand while coasting back down to get
blood going there too, so maybe it is an individual thing. I normally
have fairly cold hands and feet, according to my wife, so it may be
genetic, who knows?
I'm still going to ride, numb or not.
Bill Baka

BTW, you might want to try some of those way over padded bar grips if
you can find them or make some so you won't be forced to wear gloves in
the summer.
 
jj wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 17:01:32 -0400, "Ken"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>>While it's not uncommon to trim the bar width on straightbar handlebars a
>>>few inches on each end, but I can't really recommend such a solution since
>>>it's not reversible. Might be worth measuring the distance between your
>>>hands on each bike as you take the most common grip and go from there.
>>>
>>>jet
>>>

>>
>>I had thought of that. The bars being too wide. Fortunately, this bike came
>>with some *spare* parts including a spare set of bars! So I was thinking of
>>chopping a few inches off the ends of the bars and see if that makes a
>>difference.
>>
>>Ken

>
>
> If you had to guess, just how much pressure are you putting on the
> handlebars of your roadbike?
>
> How much pressure are you putting on the straightbar bike, by comparison?
>
> Without altering position, can you easily remove one hand, say, to wave at
> a passing truck without swerving? That's one of the tests I use. If I'm
> gripping too hard, the bike tries to swerve. Obviously do the first test
> with an imaginary truck. ;-)
>
> If indeed you're not swerving on the road bike and swerving on the s/b
> bike, then you've got a substantial difference in pressure.
>
> IMO, you should really not be 'leaning' on the handlebars anyway. The
> larger amount of pressure should be on the pedals, not the saddle or the
> bars.


Only if you are pedaling hard enough to be near racing speed and not all
of us are in that 20 something state anymore. Sitting I will still have
some weight on the bars even if pushing up a hill and the only way I
pull up on the bars is if I stand to attack. Again, an age related and
training intensity related question.
Bill Baka
>
> jet
>
 
"jj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 17:01:32 -0400, "Ken"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> While it's not uncommon to trim the bar width on straightbar handlebars

a
> >> few inches on each end, but I can't really recommend such a solution

since
> >> it's not reversible. Might be worth measuring the distance between your
> >> hands on each bike as you take the most common grip and go from there.
> >>
> >> jet
> >>

> >
> >I had thought of that. The bars being too wide. Fortunately, this bike

came
> >with some *spare* parts including a spare set of bars! So I was thinking

of
> >chopping a few inches off the ends of the bars and see if that makes a
> >difference.
> >
> >Ken

>
> If you had to guess, just how much pressure are you putting on the
> handlebars of your roadbike?
>
> How much pressure are you putting on the straightbar bike, by comparison?
>
> Without altering position, can you easily remove one hand, say, to wave at
> a passing truck without swerving? That's one of the tests I use. If I'm
> gripping too hard, the bike tries to swerve. Obviously do the first test
> with an imaginary truck. ;-)
>
> If indeed you're not swerving on the road bike and swerving on the s/b
> bike, then you've got a substantial difference in pressure.
>
> IMO, you should really not be 'leaning' on the handlebars anyway. The
> larger amount of pressure should be on the pedals, not the saddle or the
> bars.
>
> jet
>


Well I will have to try that next, I just did a little experiment, I moved
everything, shifters, brake levers and grips much further in towards the
stem, and took a short 3.5 mile ride, it feels better, but I think I will
need a longer ride to really tell.

Ken
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email protected]>, bbaka <[email protected]> wrote:
>Ken wrote:
>> I just started riding a hardtailed mtb with flat bars and I have far more
>> pain while riding this bike than when riding a road bike, but I like the
>> wide bars and the more upright position of the flat bars. My thumbs go numb,
>> my left more than my right. I have tried with cycling gloves, without
>> cycling gloves. With my elbows kept low and bent, with them straight and
>> locked. With hands in several different positions, on the bars, on the end
>> bars. I am running out of ideas. There is only a couple of other things I
>> can think of to try. (1) new grips? The ones I have are the originals I
>> think, not to high quality. (2) raising the bars higher using a stem
>> extender that I have hanging around.
>>
>> Any suggestions?


_ The first thing to check is the angle of the seat. It may be
tipped to far forward so that you are forced to push yourself
off the bars. There are lot's of other positioning hints about
this problem here.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/pain.html#fingers


>>
>> Ken
>>

>That sounds like my experience with long trips on a MTB. If I can find a
>good stretch of road I just sit up and ride no hands for a while during
>which time I shake my hands to get some blood going again. Our road bike
>friends may have a point that more positions are better but I don't want
>to put those silly looking horns back on the bike. Some of my numbness
>comes from having a death grip on the bars on some of my off road stuff
>but I still get it when just pedaling down the asphalt. On the other end
>I have had to pedal fast then stand while coasting back down to get
>blood going there too, so maybe it is an individual thing. I normally
>have fairly cold hands and feet, according to my wife, so it may be
>genetic, who knows?


>I'm still going to ride, numb or not.


_ That's a really bad idea. You can do permanent damage to the
nerves in your hands. Numb hands are a warning sign that should
not be ignored. There are a few common causes, too much weight
on the hands, bad angles or overgripping too thick a
bar. Regardless, you need to figure it out and fix it ASAP. It
won't go away and it won't get better.

>
>BTW, you might want to try some of those way over padded bar grips if
>you can find them or make some so you won't be forced to wear gloves in
>the summer.


_ Over padding will probably make it worse not better. I would
suggest trying bar ends to get a different grip, narrower grips
and getting weight off the handlebars. Pay attention to how hard
you are gripping the bars, with a new bike in new situations you
make be gripping when you really don't need to. Bars with some
sweep angle to them will also help. You can get riser bars to
test with fairly cheap at places like

www.cambriabike.com

_ Lastly, you might try a pair of trekking bars. Nashbar sells
them dirt cheap and they work with all your current shifters
and levers.

www.nashbar.com

_ You can get a wide grip and upright position with drop bars,
most bikes just don't come that way out of the shop.

_ Booker C. Bense

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"bbaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> jj wrote:
> > On Tue, 10 May 2005 17:01:32 -0400, "Ken"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>While it's not uncommon to trim the bar width on straightbar handlebars

a
> >>>few inches on each end, but I can't really recommend such a solution

since
> >>>it's not reversible. Might be worth measuring the distance between your
> >>>hands on each bike as you take the most common grip and go from there.
> >>>
> >>>jet
> >>>
> >>
> >>I had thought of that. The bars being too wide. Fortunately, this bike

came
> >>with some *spare* parts including a spare set of bars! So I was thinking

of
> >>chopping a few inches off the ends of the bars and see if that makes a
> >>difference.
> >>
> >>Ken

> >
> >
> > If you had to guess, just how much pressure are you putting on the
> > handlebars of your roadbike?
> >
> > How much pressure are you putting on the straightbar bike, by

comparison?
> >
> > Without altering position, can you easily remove one hand, say, to wave

at
> > a passing truck without swerving? That's one of the tests I use. If I'm
> > gripping too hard, the bike tries to swerve. Obviously do the first test
> > with an imaginary truck. ;-)
> >
> > If indeed you're not swerving on the road bike and swerving on the s/b
> > bike, then you've got a substantial difference in pressure.
> >
> > IMO, you should really not be 'leaning' on the handlebars anyway. The
> > larger amount of pressure should be on the pedals, not the saddle or the
> > bars.

>
> Only if you are pedaling hard enough to be near racing speed and not all
> of us are in that 20 something state anymore. Sitting I will still have
> some weight on the bars even if pushing up a hill and the only way I
> pull up on the bars is if I stand to attack. Again, an age related and
> training intensity related question.
> Bill Baka
> >

I try not to put too much pressure on my hands elbows and shoulders, and
more weight on the saddle. I am not riding to break any speed records.
Ken


> > jet
> >
 
"bbaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ken wrote:
> > I just started riding a hardtailed mtb with flat bars and I have far

more
> > pain while riding this bike than when riding a road bike, but I like the
> > wide bars and the more upright position of the flat bars. My thumbs go

numb,
> > my left more than my right. I have tried with cycling gloves, without
> > cycling gloves. With my elbows kept low and bent, with them straight and
> > locked. With hands in several different positions, on the bars, on the

end
> > bars. I am running out of ideas. There is only a couple of other things

I
> > can think of to try. (1) new grips? The ones I have are the originals I
> > think, not to high quality. (2) raising the bars higher using a stem
> > extender that I have hanging around.
> >
> > Any suggestions?
> >
> > Ken
> >

> That sounds like my experience with long trips on a MTB. If I can find a
> good stretch of road I just sit up and ride no hands for a while during
> which time I shake my hands to get some blood going again. Our road bike
> friends may have a point that more positions are better but I don't want
> to put those silly looking horns back on the bike. Some of my numbness
> comes from having a death grip on the bars on some of my off road stuff
> but I still get it when just pedaling down the asphalt. On the other end
> I have had to pedal fast then stand while coasting back down to get
> blood going there too, so maybe it is an individual thing. I normally
> have fairly cold hands and feet, according to my wife, so it may be
> genetic, who knows?
> I'm still going to ride, numb or not.
> Bill Baka
>

Yeah well I really just noticed it last week when I started doing mulitple
back to back laps (which I measured today with the cyclo-computer purchased
at Wally World and 1 lap is 11.94 miles) I don't mind the numb thumb so
much, but read that it can cause permanent nerve damage!! I don't want that
if I can avoid it. But I have been trying to do that one had riding thing
while getting the blood to flow in the other hand. It works somewhat. I
will ride anyway.
Ken


> BTW, you might want to try some of those way over padded bar grips if
> you can find them or make some so you won't be forced to wear gloves in
> the summer.
 
Ken wrote:
>
> Yeah well I really just noticed it last week when I started doing mulitple
> back to back laps (which I measured today with the cyclo-computer purchased
> at Wally World and 1 lap is 11.94 miles) I don't mind the numb thumb so
> much, but read that it can cause permanent nerve damage!! I don't want that
> if I can avoid it. But I have been trying to do that one had riding thing
> while getting the blood to flow in the other hand. It works somewhat. I
> will ride anyway.
> Ken
>

Riding with one hand seems to work OK for me as long as it is on good
straight pavement and it does give one hand a chance to get some blood
flow going. It is just a little bit hard to do a speed run and do that,
and speed runs are what I need to build back up from this rainy indoor
winter. All riding is good, but some is just sooo much better.
Bill Baka
 
On Tue, 10 May 2005 19:56:36 -0400, "Ken"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Yeah well I really just noticed it last week when I started doing mulitple
>back to back laps (which I measured today with the cyclo-computer purchased
>at Wally World and 1 lap is 11.94 miles) I don't mind the numb thumb so
>much, but read that it can cause permanent nerve damage!! I don't want that
>if I can avoid it.


The Dark Side is calling! Resistance is futile! Give in to your
laid-back side.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
 
On Tue, 10 May 2005 14:28:29 -0700, bbaka wrote:

> That sounds like my experience with long trips on a MTB. If I can find a
> good stretch of road I just sit up and ride no hands for a while during
> which time I shake my hands to get some blood going again. Our road bike
> friends may have a point that more positions are better but I don't want
> to put those silly looking horns back on the bike.


Never mind the pain - cycling is all about looking good, right?

--
bpo gallery at http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/mvw1/bpo
 
"Booker C. Bense"
<[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
>
> _ You can get a wide grip and upright position with drop bars,
> most bikes just don't come that way out of the shop.
>
> _ Booker C. Bense


?? How? The only way I have ever seen a a wide upright position is with some
sort of high rise stem / stem extender / or the drop bars flipped upside
down, Which looks really, really stupid!

Ken
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email protected]>,
Ken <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Booker C. Bense"
><[email protected]> wrote in
>message news:[email protected]...
>>
>> _ You can get a wide grip and upright position with drop bars,
>> most bikes just don't come that way out of the shop.
>>
>> _ Booker C. Bense

>
>?? How? The only way I have ever seen a a wide upright position is with some
>sort of high rise stem / stem extender / or the drop bars flipped upside
>down, Which looks really, really stupid!


_ 46cm Nitto Noodle bar on a 45 degree stem with an uncut steerer fork
with at least 40mm of spacers. It may still look stupid, but it's
wide and high...

_ Booker C. Bense










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