Nutrient during pregnancy 'super-charges' brain



D

Diarmid Logan

Guest
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994771

Nutrient during pregnancy 'super-charges' brain

NewScientist.com news service

Taking a nutrient called choline during pregnancy could
"super-charge" children's brains for life, suggests a
study in rats.

Offspring born to pregnant rats given the supplement were
known to be faster learners with better memories. But the
new work, by Scott Swartzwelder and colleagues at Duke
University Medical Center in North Carolina, US, shows this
is due to having bigger brain cells in vital areas.

Choline, a member of the vitamin B family, is found in egg
yolks, liver and other meats - "exactly the kind of things
people were told not to eat" due to their high cholesterol
content, says Swartzwelder.

He believes their results in the rats could translate to
humans, and indeed the US Institute of Medicine added
choline to the list of essential nutrients, particularly for
pregnant women, in its 2003 recommendations.

The implications of the study's findings are "potentially
huge" Swartzwelder believes: "If it turns out that it's true
in humans and can make people smarter their whole lives and
forestall age-related memory decline - that's potentially a
very exciting prospect."

Behavioural studies have shown giving choline to pregnant
rats improves learning and memory in their offspring. The
pups also suffer significantly less from failing memories as
they get old.

However, it was not known whether choline's effects were on
the general brain environment or whether it fundamentally
changed the brain's cells.

"Our study is the first time anyone has shown that
prenatal choline supplementation actually changes the
anatomy and physiology of single brain cells,"
Swartzwelder told New Scientist. No adverse effects could
be seen in the rats, he adds.

The team gave pregnant rats three to four times their normal
intake of choline for six days. Gestation lasts about 21
days in rats, and the period during which the rats were fed
extra choline roughly corresponds to the start of the third
trimester in women.

The pups born were raised to adulthood and then their brains
were examined, in particular the hippocampus - the area of
the brain critical for learning.

This part of the brain was sliced in a way that preserved
its internal circuitry and kept it alive. A tiny electrode
was then used to recording the behaviour of each cell.

The neurons of rats born to mothers given extra choline
fired electrical signals more rapidly and for longer
periods, indicating a capacity to communicate more easily.

The team then injected a biological dye into the neurons to
look at their shape and structure. The cells from rats
receiving prenatal choline supplements were substantially
bigger than those from rats that did not.

"We are looking at consistent changes in the range of 20 to
25 per cent," says Swartzwelder. "These are bigger cells
with more dendrites, the areas of the cell specific to
receiving incoming signals." He says the combined changes
induced by choline in the physiology and anatomy of the
brain cells would "hotwire" the system.

The team does not know exactly how choline boosts brains,
but it is known to contribute to the building of cell
membranes during the embryo stage of development. "My bet is
it has something to do this," Swartzwelder says.

Previous work by Steven Zeiser at the University of North
Carolina has shown choline alters a crucial gene by adding a
methyl group on to it. This switches off the gene, CDKN-3,
which usually inhibits cell division in the memory regions
of the brain.

There is little information on how much choline women
currently take. "But don't be afraid of eggs," Swartzwelder
suggests. "I used to eat a low fat diet - I've started
eating eggs and I'm not even pregnant!"

Journal reference: Journal of Neurophysiology (vol 91
April issue)

Shaoni Bhattacharya
 
R

Rarmant

Guest
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14645379

J Neurophysiol. 2004 Apr;91(4):1545-55. Epub 2003 Nov 26.

Dietary prenatal choline supplementation alters postnatal
hippocampal structure and function.

Li Q, Guo-Ross S, Lewis DV, Turner D, White AM, Wilson WA,
Swartzwelder HS.

Neurobiology Research Laboratory, Veterans Affairs Medical
Center, Durham 27705.

Choline, a compound present in many foods, has recently
been classified as an essential nutrient for humans.
Studies with animal models indicate that the availability
of choline during the prenatal period influences neural and
cognitive development. Specifically, prenatal choline
supplementation has been shown to enhance working memory
and hippocampal long-term potentiation (LTP) in adult
offspring. However, the cellular mechanisms underlying
these effects remain unclear. Here we report that choline
supplementation, during a 6-day gestational period, results
in greater excitatory responsiveness, reduced slow
afterhyperpolarizations (sAHPs), enhanced afterdepolarizing
potentials (ADPs), larger somata, and greater basal
dendritic arborization among hippocampal CA1 pyramidal
cells studied postnatally in juvenile rats (20-25 days of
age). These data indicate that dietary supplementation with
a single nutrient, choline, during a brief, critical period
of prenatal development, alters the structure and function
of hippocampal pyramidal cells.

PMID: 14645379

On 12 Mar 2004 08:40:13 -0800, [email protected]
(Diarmid Logan) wrote:

>http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994771
>
>Nutrient during pregnancy 'super-charges' brain
>
>NewScientist.com news service
>
>Taking a nutrient called choline during pregnancy could
>"super-charge" children's brains for life, suggests a
>study in rats.
>
>Offspring born to pregnant rats given the supplement were
>known to be faster learners with better memories. But the
>new work, by Scott Swartzwelder and colleagues at Duke
>University Medical Center in North Carolina, US, shows this
>is due to having bigger brain cells in vital areas.
>
>Choline, a member of the vitamin B family, is found in egg
>yolks, liver and other meats - "exactly the kind of things
>people were told not to eat" due to their high cholesterol
>content, says Swartzwelder.
>
>He believes their results in the rats could translate to
>humans, and indeed the US Institute of Medicine added
>choline to the list of essential nutrients, particularly
>for pregnant women, in its 2003 recommendations.
>
>The implications of the study's findings are "potentially
>huge" Swartzwelder believes: "If it turns out that it's
>true in humans and can make people smarter their whole
>lives and forestall age-related memory decline - that's
>potentially a very exciting prospect."
>
>Behavioural studies have shown giving choline to pregnant
>rats improves learning and memory in their offspring. The
>pups also suffer significantly less from failing memories
>as they get old.
>
>However, it was not known whether choline's effects were on
>the general brain environment or whether it fundamentally
>changed the brain's cells.
>
>"Our study is the first time anyone has shown that
>prenatal choline supplementation actually changes the
>anatomy and physiology of single brain cells,"
>Swartzwelder told New Scientist. No adverse effects could
>be seen in the rats, he adds.
>
>The team gave pregnant rats three to four times their
>normal intake of choline for six days. Gestation lasts
>about 21 days in rats, and the period during which the rats
>were fed extra choline roughly corresponds to the start of
>the third trimester in women.
>
>The pups born were raised to adulthood and then their
>brains were examined, in particular the hippocampus - the
>area of the brain critical for learning.
>
>This part of the brain was sliced in a way that preserved
>its internal circuitry and kept it alive. A tiny electrode
>was then used to recording the behaviour of each cell.
>
>The neurons of rats born to mothers given extra choline
>fired electrical signals more rapidly and for longer
>periods, indicating a capacity to communicate more easily.
>
>The team then injected a biological dye into the neurons to
>look at their shape and structure. The cells from rats
>receiving prenatal choline supplements were substantially
>bigger than those from rats that did not.
>
>"We are looking at consistent changes in the range of 20 to
>25 per cent," says Swartzwelder. "These are bigger cells
>with more dendrites, the areas of the cell specific to
>receiving incoming signals." He says the combined changes
>induced by choline in the physiology and anatomy of the
>brain cells would "hotwire" the system.
>
>The team does not know exactly how choline boosts brains,
>but it is known to contribute to the building of cell
>membranes during the embryo stage of development. "My bet
>is it has something to do this," Swartzwelder says.
>
>Previous work by Steven Zeiser at the University of North
>Carolina has shown choline alters a crucial gene by adding
>a methyl group on to it. This switches off the gene, CDKN-
>3, which usually inhibits cell division in the memory
>regions of the brain.
>
>There is little information on how much choline women
>currently take. "But don't be afraid of eggs," Swartzwelder
>suggests. "I used to eat a low fat diet - I've started
>eating eggs and I'm not even pregnant!"
>
>Journal reference: Journal of Neurophysiology (vol 91
>April issue)
>
>Shaoni Bhattacharya
 
R

Rarmant

Guest
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14645379

J Neurophysiol. 2004 Apr;91(4):1545-55. Epub 2003 Nov 26.

Dietary prenatal choline supplementation alters postnatal
hippocampal structure and function.

Li Q, Guo-Ross S, Lewis DV, Turner D, White AM, Wilson WA,
Swartzwelder HS.

Neurobiology Research Laboratory, Veterans Affairs Medical
Center, Durham 27705.

Choline, a compound present in many foods, has recently
been classified as an essential nutrient for humans.
Studies with animal models indicate that the availability
of choline during the prenatal period influences neural and
cognitive development. Specifically, prenatal choline
supplementation has been shown to enhance working memory
and hippocampal long-term potentiation (LTP) in adult
offspring. However, the cellular mechanisms underlying
these effects remain unclear. Here we report that choline
supplementation, during a 6-day gestational period, results
in greater excitatory responsiveness, reduced slow
afterhyperpolarizations (sAHPs), enhanced afterdepolarizing
potentials (ADPs), larger somata, and greater basal
dendritic arborization among hippocampal CA1 pyramidal
cells studied postnatally in juvenile rats (20-25 days of
age). These data indicate that dietary supplementation with
a single nutrient, choline, during a brief, critical period
of prenatal development, alters the structure and function
of hippocampal pyramidal cells.

PMID: 14645379

On 12 Mar 2004 08:40:13 -0800, [email protected]
(Diarmid Logan) wrote:

>http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994771
>
>Nutrient during pregnancy 'super-charges' brain
>
>NewScientist.com news service
>
>Taking a nutrient called choline during pregnancy could
>"super-charge" children's brains for life, suggests a
>study in rats.
>
>Offspring born to pregnant rats given the supplement were
>known to be faster learners with better memories. But the
>new work, by Scott Swartzwelder and colleagues at Duke
>University Medical Center in North Carolina, US, shows this
>is due to having bigger brain cells in vital areas.
>
>Choline, a member of the vitamin B family, is found in egg
>yolks, liver and other meats - "exactly the kind of things
>people were told not to eat" due to their high cholesterol
>content, says Swartzwelder.
>
>He believes their results in the rats could translate to
>humans, and indeed the US Institute of Medicine added
>choline to the list of essential nutrients, particularly
>for pregnant women, in its 2003 recommendations.
>
>The implications of the study's findings are "potentially
>huge" Swartzwelder believes: "If it turns out that it's
>true in humans and can make people smarter their whole
>lives and forestall age-related memory decline - that's
>potentially a very exciting prospect."
>
>Behavioural studies have shown giving choline to pregnant
>rats improves learning and memory in their offspring. The
>pups also suffer significantly less from failing memories
>as they get old.
>
>However, it was not known whether choline's effects were on
>the general brain environment or whether it fundamentally
>changed the brain's cells.
>
>"Our study is the first time anyone has shown that
>prenatal choline supplementation actually changes the
>anatomy and physiology of single brain cells,"
>Swartzwelder told New Scientist. No adverse effects could
>be seen in the rats, he adds.
>
>The team gave pregnant rats three to four times their
>normal intake of choline for six days. Gestation lasts
>about 21 days in rats, and the period during which the rats
>were fed extra choline roughly corresponds to the start of
>the third trimester in women.
>
>The pups born were raised to adulthood and then their
>brains were examined, in particular the hippocampus - the
>area of the brain critical for learning.
>
>This part of the brain was sliced in a way that preserved
>its internal circuitry and kept it alive. A tiny electrode
>was then used to recording the behaviour of each cell.
>
>The neurons of rats born to mothers given extra choline
>fired electrical signals more rapidly and for longer
>periods, indicating a capacity to communicate more easily.
>
>The team then injected a biological dye into the neurons to
>look at their shape and structure. The cells from rats
>receiving prenatal choline supplements were substantially
>bigger than those from rats that did not.
>
>"We are looking at consistent changes in the range of 20 to
>25 per cent," says Swartzwelder. "These are bigger cells
>with more dendrites, the areas of the cell specific to
>receiving incoming signals." He says the combined changes
>induced by choline in the physiology and anatomy of the
>brain cells would "hotwire" the system.
>
>The team does not know exactly how choline boosts brains,
>but it is known to contribute to the building of cell
>membranes during the embryo stage of development. "My bet
>is it has something to do this," Swartzwelder says.
>
>Previous work by Steven Zeiser at the University of North
>Carolina has shown choline alters a crucial gene by adding
>a methyl group on to it. This switches off the gene, CDKN-
>3, which usually inhibits cell division in the memory
>regions of the brain.
>
>There is little information on how much choline women
>currently take. "But don't be afraid of eggs," Swartzwelder
>suggests. "I used to eat a low fat diet - I've started
>eating eggs and I'm not even pregnant!"
>
>Journal reference: Journal of Neurophysiology (vol 91
>April issue)
>
>Shaoni Bhattacharya
 
P

Pearl

Guest
"Diarmid Logan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994771
>
> Nutrient during pregnancy 'super-charges' brain
>
> NewScientist.com news service
>
> Taking a nutrient called choline during pregnancy could
> "super-charge" children's brains for life, suggests a
> study in rats.
<..>
> Choline, a member of the vitamin B family, is found in egg
> yolks, liver and other meats - "exactly the kind of things
> people were told not to eat" due to their high cholesterol
> content, says Swartzwelder.
<..>
> There is little information on how much choline women
> currently take. "But don't be afraid of eggs,"
> Swartzwelder suggests. "I used to eat a low fat diet -
> I've started eating eggs and I'm not even pregnant!"

'Lecithin, found in foods such as eggs, soybeans, peanuts,
and liver, is the predominant source of choline in the human
diet. The normal intake of lecithin and choline has been
estimated to be approximately 6 grams and 800 milligrams per
day respectively. Commercial soy lecithin is defatted from
soy bean oil to contain dominantly (± 95%) acetone insolubles-
the most important of which are the phospholipids
phosphatidylcholine, inositol and ethanolamine. Commercial
lecithin is about 23% phosphatidylcholine (PC), and PC
contains about 14% choline. Due to space limitations,
choline sources like choline bitartrate and choline citrate
have been used as the predominant source of choline in
vitamin supplements. However, the increasing evidence that
lecithin is a source of choline that may have benefits
beyond simply being a choline source, has provided a reason
for supplementing with both choline and lecithin itself. '
http://www.aabhealth.com/lecithincholine.htm
 
K

Katie

Guest
"pearl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Diarmid Logan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994771
> >
> > Nutrient during pregnancy 'super-charges' brain
> >
> > NewScientist.com news service
> >
> > Taking a nutrient called choline during pregnancy could
> > "super-charge" children's brains for life, suggests a
> > study in rats.
> <..>
> > Choline, a member of the vitamin B family, is found in
> > egg yolks, liver and other meats - "exactly the kind of
> > things people were told not to eat" due to their high
> > cholesterol content, says Swartzwelder.
> <..>
> > There is little information on how much choline women
> > currently take. "But don't be afraid of eggs,"
> > Swartzwelder suggests. "I used to eat a low fat diet -
> > I've started eating eggs and I'm not even pregnant!"
>
> 'Lecithin, found in foods such as eggs, soybeans, peanuts,
> and liver, is the predominant source of choline in the
> human diet. The normal intake of lecithin and choline has
> been estimated to be approximately 6 grams and 800
> milligrams per day respectively. Commercial soy lecithin
> is defatted from soy bean oil to contain dominantly (±
> 95%) acetone insolubles- the most important of which are
> the phospholipids phosphatidylcholine, inositol and
> ethanolamine. Commercial lecithin is about 23%
> phosphatidylcholine (PC), and PC contains about 14%
> choline. Due to space limitations, choline sources like
> choline bitartrate and choline citrate have been used as
> the predominant source of choline in vitamin supplements.
> However, the increasing evidence that lecithin is a source
> of choline that may have benefits beyond simply being a
> choline source, has provided a reason for supplementing
> with both choline and lecithin itself. '
> http://www.aabhealth.com/lecithincholine.htm
>
mmm...yeah, i read that about lecithin a while back, and
picked up some soy lecithin granules...emulsifiers, so
you can mix em' into stuff that you're cooking for good
memory stuff.
 
P

Pearl

Guest
"katie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "pearl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Diarmid Logan" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns9999-
> > > 4771
> > >
> > > Nutrient during pregnancy 'super-charges' brain
> > >
> > > NewScientist.com news service
> > >
> > > Taking a nutrient called choline during pregnancy
> > > could "super-charge" children's brains for life,
> > > suggests a study in rats.
> > <..>
> > > Choline, a member of the vitamin B family, is found in
> > > egg yolks, liver and other meats - "exactly the kind
> > > of things people were told not to eat" due to their
> > > high cholesterol content, says Swartzwelder.
> > <..>
> > > There is little information on how much choline women
> > > currently take. "But don't be afraid of eggs,"
> > > Swartzwelder suggests. "I used to eat a low fat diet -
> > > I've started eating eggs and I'm not even pregnant!"
> >
> > 'Lecithin, found in foods such as eggs, soybeans,
> > peanuts, and liver, is the predominant source of choline
> > in the human diet. The normal intake of lecithin and
> > choline has been estimated to be approximately 6 grams
> > and 800 milligrams per day respectively. Commercial soy
> > lecithin is defatted from soy bean oil to contain
> > dominantly (± 95%) acetone insolubles- the most
> > important of which are the phospholipids
> > phosphatidylcholine, inositol and ethanolamine.
> > Commercial lecithin is about 23% phosphatidylcholine
> > (PC), and PC contains about 14% choline. Due to space
> > limitations, choline sources like choline bitartrate and
> > choline citrate have been used as the predominant source
> > of choline in vitamin supplements. However, the
> > increasing evidence that lecithin is a source of choline
> > that may have benefits beyond simply being a choline
> > source, has provided a reason for supplementing with
> > both choline and lecithin itself. '
> > http://www.aabhealth.com/lecithincholine.htm
> >
> mmm...yeah, i read that about lecithin a while back, and
> picked up some soy lecithin granules...emulsifiers, so
> you can mix em' into stuff that you're cooking for
> good memory stuff.

As lecithin is destroyed by high temperatures, it's best to
take it 'raw'.
 
U

Usual Suspect

Guest
the village idiot wrote:
>>>>http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994771
>>>>
>>>>Nutrient during pregnancy 'super-charges' brain
>>>>
>>>>NewScientist.com news service
>>>>
>>>>Taking a nutrient called choline during pregnancy could
>>>>"super-charge" children's brains for life, suggests a
>>>>study in rats.
>>>
>>><..>
>>>
>>>>Choline, a member of the vitamin B family, is found in
>>>>egg yolks, liver and other meats - "exactly the kind of
>>>>things people were told not to eat" due to their high
>>>>cholesterol content, says Swartzwelder.
>>>
>>><..>
>>>
>>>>There is little information on how much choline women
>>>>currently take. "But don't be afraid of eggs,"
>>>>Swartzwelder suggests. "I used to eat a low fat diet -
>>>>I've started eating eggs and I'm not even pregnant!"
>>>
>>>'Lecithin, found in foods such as eggs, soybeans,
>>>peanuts, and liver, is the predominant source of choline
>>>in the human diet. The normal intake of lecithin and
>>>choline has been estimated to be approximately 6 grams
>>>and 800 milligrams per day respectively. Commercial soy
>>>lecithin is defatted from soy bean oil to contain
>>>dominantly (± 95%) acetone insolubles- the most important
>>>of which are the phospholipids phosphatidylcholine,
>>>inositol and ethanolamine. Commercial lecithin is about
>>>23% phosphatidylcholine (PC), and PC contains about 14%
>>>choline. Due to space limitations, choline sources like
>>>choline bitartrate and choline citrate have been used as
>>>the predominant source of choline in vitamin supplements.
>>>However, the increasing evidence that lecithin is a
>>>source of choline that may have benefits beyond simply
>>>being a choline source, has provided a reason for
>>>supplementing with both choline and lecithin itself. '
>>>http://www.aabhealth.com/lecithincholine.htm
>>>
>>
>>mmm...yeah, i read that about lecithin a while back, and
>> picked up some soy lecithin granules...emulsifiers, so
>> you can mix em' into stuff that you're cooking for
>> good memory stuff.
>
> As lecithin is destroyed by high temperatures,

Is it? Viscosity is affected by heat, but its chemical
properties remain.

> it's best to take it 'raw'.

Katie's granules are dried, possibly by heat, lecithin.
Aside from the absence of moisture, how else are they
chemically distinct from liquid lecithin?
 
P

Pearl

Guest
the village idiot "usual suspect" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...

pearl wrote: <..>
> > As lecithin is destroyed by high temperatures,
>
> Is it? Viscosity is affected by heat, but its chemical
> properties remain.
>
> > it's best to take it 'raw'.
>
> Katie's granules are dried, possibly by heat, lecithin.
> Aside from the absence of moisture, how else are they
> chemically distinct from liquid lecithin?

' Temperature-sensitive food and pharmaceutical products
with the highest quality standards can be successfully
concentrated by thin-film processors. Diluted feedstocks can
be concentrated to final specification in seconds without
recirculation, thereby preserving quality and yield. As the
solids content of the stream increases, temperature
sensitivity and viscosity generally increase, creating the
need for short residence time. Agitated thin-film technology
fulfills these needs while inducing high heat transfer.

Typical applications are: "Drying" of lecithin to 99.5%
Concentration of sugar solutions to99.9% Concentration of
enzymes, vitaminsand proteins; Concentration of fruit and
vegetablepurees; Concentration of cheesebase; Concentration
of biological solutions; Stripping of solvents from
vegetable and plant extracts; Removal of water and solvents
fromfermentation broths (e.g., antibiotics).

http://www.lcicorp.com/evap/chem%20proc%20paper.pdf
 
U

Usual Suspect

Guest
the village idiot pearl wrote:
> <..>
>
>>>As lecithin is destroyed by high temperatures,
>>
>>Is it? Viscosity is affected by heat, but its chemical
>>properties remain.
>>
>>
>>>it's best to take it 'raw'.
>>
>>Katie's granules are dried, possibly by heat, lecithin.
>>Aside from the absence of moisture, how else are they
>>chemically distinct from liquid lecithin?
>
> ' Temperature-sensitive food and pharmaceutical products
> with the highest quality standards can be successfully
> concentrated by thin-film processors. Diluted feedstocks
> can be concentrated to final specification in seconds
> without recirculation, thereby preserving quality and
> yield. As the solids content of the stream increases,
> temperature sensitivity and viscosity generally increase,
> creating the need for short residence time. Agitated thin-
> film technology fulfills these needs while inducing high
> heat transfer.
>
> Typical applications are: "Drying" of lecithin to 99.5%
> Concentration of sugar solutions to99.9% Concentration of
> enzymes, vitaminsand proteins; Concentration of fruit and
> vegetablepurees; Concentration of cheesebase;
> Concentration of biological solutions; Stripping of
> solvents from vegetable and plant extracts; Removal of
> water and solvents fromfermentation broths (e.g.,
> antibiotics).
>
> http://www.lcicorp.com/evap/chem%20proc%20paper.pdf

STUPID moron Lesley, that doesn't answer my question, but it
is useful. It further proves you cite sources you don't
comprehend. You know why I say that? Look at the pictures
and note that *HEAT* is used to process lecithin from liquid
to granules.

Now try again. With your claims that it is best to consume
lecithin 'raw' and that it is 'destroyed by high
temperatures,' aside from the absence of moisture, how
else are lecithin granules *chemically distinct* from
liquid lecithin?
 
P

Pearl

Guest
the village idiot "usual suspect" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> pearl wrote:
> > <..>
> >
> >>>As lecithin is destroyed by high temperatures,
> >>
> >>Is it? Viscosity is affected by heat, but its chemical
> >>properties remain.
> >>
> >>>it's best to take it 'raw'.
> >>
> >>Katie's granules are dried, possibly by heat, lecithin.
> >>Aside from the absence of moisture, how else are they
> >>chemically distinct from liquid lecithin?
> >
> > ' Temperature-sensitive food and pharmaceutical products
> > with the highest quality standards can be successfully
> > concentrated by thin-film processors. Diluted feedstocks
> > can be concentrated to final specification in seconds
> > without recirculation, thereby preserving quality and
> > yield. As the solids content of the stream increases,
> > temperature sensitivity and viscosity generally
> > increase, creating the need for short residence time.
> > Agitated thin-film technology fulfills these needs while
> > inducing high heat transfer.
> >
> > Typical applications are: "Drying" of lecithin to 99.5%
> > Concentration of sugar solutions to99.9% Concentration
> > of enzymes, vitamins and proteins; Concentration of
> > fruit and vegetable purees; Concentration of cheese
> > base; Concentration of biological solutions; Stripping
> > of solvents from vegetable and plant extracts; Removal
> > of water and solvents fromfermentation broths (e.g.,
> > antibiotics).
> >
> > http://www.lcicorp.com/evap/chem%20proc%20paper.pdf
>
> STUPID moron Lesley, that doesn't answer my question, but
> it is useful. It further proves you cite sources you don't
> comprehend. You know why I say that?

Yes, we know- smear is your modus operandum.

> Look at the pictures and note that *HEAT* is used to
> process lecithin from liquid to granules.

How much heat? I wrote 'high temperatures'- in the context
of cooking. Note also 'need for short residence time'.

> Now try again. With your claims that it is best to consume
> lecithin 'raw' and that it is 'destroyed by high
> temperatures,' aside from the absence of moisture, how
> else are lecithin granules *chemically distinct* from
> liquid lecithin?

What part of 'temperature-sensitive food' don't you
understand, 'usual suspect'?
 
P

Pearl

Guest
"pearl" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:...
> the village idiot "usual suspect" <[email protected]>
> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > pearl wrote:
> > > <..>
> > >
> > >>>As lecithin is destroyed by high temperatures,
> > >>
> > >>Is it?

'Lecithin is a complex mixture of phospholipids and other
materials. They vary greatly in their physical form, from
viscous semiliquids to powders, depending upon their free
fatty acid content. They are almost odorless and will vary
in color from brown to light yellow. Lecithins are used as
dispersing, emulsifying and stabilizing agents. They will
decompose at extreme pH, are hygroscopic and will oxidize,
darken and *decompose at high temperatures*. Lecithin should
be stored at room temperature protected from light.
Refrigeration may cause the material to separate.'
http://www.rx4u.com/lecithn.htm *emphasis added.

<..
 
U

Usual Suspect

Guest
the village idiot Lesley wrote:
>>><..>
>>>
>>>>>As lecithin is destroyed by high temperatures,
>>>>
>>>>Is it? Viscosity is affected by heat, but its chemical
>>>>properties remain.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>it's best to take it 'raw'.
>>>>
>>>>Katie's granules are dried, possibly by heat, lecithin.
>>>>Aside from the absence of moisture, how else are they
>>>>chemically distinct from liquid lecithin?
>>>
>>>' Temperature-sensitive food and pharmaceutical products
>>>with the highest quality standards can be successfully
>>>concentrated by thin-film processors. Diluted feedstocks
>>>can be concentrated to final specification in seconds
>>>without recirculation, thereby preserving quality and
>>>yield. As the solids content of the stream increases,
>>>temperature sensitivity and viscosity generally increase,
>>>creating the need for short residence time. Agitated thin-
>>>film technology fulfills these needs while inducing high
>>>heat transfer.
>>>
>>>Typical applications are: "Drying" of lecithin to 99.5%
>>>Concentration of sugar solutions to99.9% Concentration of
>>>enzymes, vitamins and proteins; Concentration of fruit
>>>and vegetable purees; Concentration of cheese base;
>>>Concentration of biological solutions; Stripping of
>>>solvents from vegetable and plant extracts; Removal of
>>>water and solvents fromfermentation broths (e.g.,
>>>antibiotics).
>>>
>>>http://www.lcicorp.com/evap/chem%20proc%20paper.pdf
>>
>>STUPID moron Lesley, that doesn't answer my question, but
>>it is useful. It further proves you cite sources you don't
>>comprehend. You know why I say that?
>
> Yes, we know- smear is your modus operandum.

Your MO is stupidity. Mine is truth.

>>Look at the pictures and note that *HEAT* is used to
>>process lecithin from liquid to granules.
>
> How much heat? I wrote 'high temperatures'- in the context
> of cooking.

Cooking doesn't make any difference, either, at least
with respect to changing its state. Lecithin remains
lecithin, regardless of heat. All you do is exchange
(add, subtract) moisture.

> Note also 'need for short residence time'.

How long does it take to dry, regardless of method? Heat is
applied. It doesn't destroy any property of lecithin aside
to change its physical state from liquid to granule. The
same occurs whether processing lecithin from soy oil or even
cooking (which only puts lecithin in solution with other
ingredients) with lecithin, dummy.

>>Now try again. With your claims that it is best to consume
>>lecithin 'raw' and that it is 'destroyed by high
>>temperatures,' aside from the absence of moisture, how
>>else are lecithin granules *chemically distinct* from
>>liquid lecithin?
>
> What part of 'temperature-sensitive food' don't you
> understand, 'usual suspect'?

You're the one not comprehending or supporting your claim
that "lecithin is destroyed by high temperatures; it's best
to take it raw." The lecithin you purchase -- liquid or
granule -- as a supplement or a food additive has been
subjected to heat. Lots of heat over long periods of time.
It's *still* lecithin, it'll *still* work as an emulsifier
in either state, and it *still* contains choline.

Just how is lecithin separated from soy oil anyway? Lecithin
is a combination of naturally-occurring phospholipids, which
are extracted during the processing of soybean oil. The
soybeans are tempered by keeping them at a consistent
temperature and moisture level for approximately seven to 10
days. This process hydrates the soybeans and loosens the
hull. The soybeans are then cleaned and cracked into small
pieces and the hulls are separated from the cracked beans.
Next, the soybean pieces are heated and pressed into flakes.
Soybean oil is extracted from the flakes through a
distillation process and lecithin is separated from the oil
by the addition of water and centrifugation or steam
precipitation.
http://www.talksoy.com/pdfs/SoyLecithinFactSheet3.pdf

Did someone say distillation? That involves heat, LOTS of
heat for a LONG period of time. So does steam precipitation
-- that happens at 100c over time: distillation, process
used to separate the substances composing a mixture. It
involves a change of state, as of liquid to gas, and
subsequent condensation. The process was probably first used
in the production of intoxicating beverages. Today, refined
methods of distillation are used in many industries,
including the alcohol and petroleum industries.
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0815646.html (read the
part about distillation processes, dummy)

BTW, I'm surprised you advocate the use of a soy byproduct.
When soy lecithin supplements were given throughout
perinatal development, they reduced activity in the cerebral
cortex and "altered synaptic characteristics in a manner
consistent with disturbances in neural function."
http://www.mercola.com/2000/sept/17/soy_brain.htm

Which loonie source will you rely upon this time? You are
the lowest-grade moron in usenet history.
 
P

Pearl

Guest
the village idiot "usual suspect" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

pearl wrote:
> >>><..>
> >>>
> >>>>>As lecithin is destroyed by high temperatures,
> >>>>
> >>>>Is it? Viscosity is affected by heat, but its chemical
> >>>>properties remain.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>it's best to take it 'raw'.
> >>>>
> >>>>Katie's granules are dried, possibly by heat,
> >>>>lecithin. Aside from the absence of moisture, how else
> >>>>are they chemically distinct from liquid lecithin?
> >>>
> >>>' Temperature-sensitive food and pharmaceutical
> >>>products with the highest quality standards can be
> >>>successfully concentrated by thin-film processors.
> >>>Diluted feedstocks can be concentrated to final
> >>>specification in seconds without recirculation, thereby
> >>>preserving quality and yield. As the solids content of
> >>>the stream increases, temperature sensitivity and
> >>>viscosity generally increase, creating the need for
> >>>short residence time. Agitated thin-film technology
> >>>fulfills these needs while inducing high heat transfer.
> >>>
> >>>Typical applications are: "Drying" of lecithin to 99.5%
> >>>Concentration of sugar solutions to99.9% Concentration
> >>>of enzymes, vitamins and proteins; Concentration of
> >>>fruit and vegetable purees; Concentration of cheese
> >>>base; Concentration of biological solutions; Stripping
> >>>of solvents from vegetable and plant extracts; Removal
> >>>of water and solvents fromfermentation broths (e.g.,
> >>>antibiotics).
> >>>
> >>>http://www.lcicorp.com/evap/chem%20proc%20paper.pdf
> >>
> >>STUPID moron Lesley, that doesn't answer my question,
> >>but it is useful. It further proves you cite sources you
> >>don't comprehend. You know why I say that?
> >
> > Yes, we know- smear is your modus operandum.
>
> Your MO is stupidity. Mine is truth.

LOL!!

> >>Look at the pictures and note that *HEAT* is used to
> >>process lecithin from liquid to granules.
> >
> > How much heat? I wrote 'high temperatures'- in the
> > context of cooking.
>
> Cooking doesn't make any difference, either, at least with
> respect to changing its state. Lecithin remains lecithin,
> regardless of heat. All you do is exchange (add, subtract)
> moisture.
>
> > Note also 'need for short residence time'.
>
> How long does it take to dry, regardless of method? Heat
> is applied. It doesn't destroy any property of lecithin
> aside to change its physical state from liquid to granule.
> The same occurs whether processing lecithin from soy oil
> or even cooking (which only puts lecithin in solution with
> other ingredients) with lecithin, dummy.
>
> >>Now try again. With your claims that it is best to
> >>consume lecithin 'raw' and that it is 'destroyed by high
> >>temperatures,' aside from the absence of moisture, how
> >>else are lecithin granules *chemically distinct* from
> >>liquid lecithin?
> >
> > What part of 'temperature-sensitive food' don't you
> > understand, 'usual suspect'?
>
> You're the one not comprehending or supporting your claim
> that "lecithin is destroyed by high temperatures; it's
> best to take it raw." The lecithin you purchase -- liquid
> or granule -- as a supplement or a food additive has been
> subjected to heat. Lots of heat over long periods of time.
> It's *still* lecithin, it'll *still* work as an emulsifier
> in either state, and it *still* contains choline.
>
> Just how is lecithin separated from soy oil anyway?
> Lecithin is a combination of naturally-occurring
> phospholipids, which are extracted during the processing
> of soybean oil. The soybeans are tempered by keeping them
> at a consistent temperature and moisture level for
> approximately seven to 10 days. This process hydrates the
> soybeans and loosens the hull. The soybeans are then
> cleaned and cracked into small pieces and the hulls are
> separated from the cracked beans. Next, the soybean pieces
> are heated and pressed into flakes. Soybean oil is
> extracted from the flakes through a distillation process
> and lecithin is separated from the oil by the addition of
> water and centrifugation or steam precipitation.
> http://www.talksoy.com/pdfs/SoyLecithinFactSheet3.pdf
>
> Did someone say distillation? That involves heat, LOTS of
> heat for a LONG period of time. So does steam
> precipitation -- that happens at 100c over time:
> distillation, process used to separate the substances
> composing a mixture. It involves a change of state, as of
> liquid to gas, and subsequent condensation. The process
> was probably first used in the production of intoxicating
> beverages. Today, refined methods of distillation are used
> in many industries, including the alcohol and petroleum
> industries.
> http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0815646.html (read the
> part about distillation processes, dummy)

Apparently much commercial soy-derived lecithin is rancid.

'Much lecithin on the market is rancid. Thebest form of
lecithin I know is Twin Labs brand "PC 55" - it contains 55%
PC and is always very fresh. http://tinyurl.com/2rnyl

I wonder if they use a different extraction method for "PC
55".

'Lecithin is a complex mixture of phospholipids and other
materials. They vary greatly in their physical form, from
viscous semiliquids to powders, depending upon their free
fatty acid content. They are almost odorless and will vary
in color from brown to light yellow. Lecithins are used as
dispersing, emulsifying and stabilizing agents. They will
decompose at extreme pH, are hygroscopic and will oxidize,
darken and *decompose at high temperatures*. Lecithin should
be stored at room temperature protected from light.
Refrigeration may cause the material to separate.'
http://www.rx4u.com/lecithn.htm *emphasis added.

> BTW, I'm surprised you advocate the use of a soy
> byproduct. When soy lecithin supplements were given
> throughout perinatal development, they reduced activity in
> the cerebral cortex and "altered synaptic characteristics
> in a manner consistent with disturbances in neural
> function."
> http://www.mercola.com/2000/sept/17/soy_brain.htm

- in non-human animals, possibly in excess.

I'm not keen on soy products in general, but I think that
many of the problems discovered may have been due to
contaminants.

<..
 
U

Usual Suspect

Guest
*the* village idiot wrote: <...>
>>>>Look at the pictures and note that *HEAT* is used to
>>>>process lecithin from liquid to granules.
>>>
>>>How much heat? I wrote 'high temperatures'- in the
>>>context of cooking.
>>
>>Cooking doesn't make any difference, either, at least with
>>respect to changing its state. Lecithin remains lecithin,
>>regardless of heat. All you do is exchange (add, subtract)
>>moisture.
>>
>>
>>>Note also 'need for short residence time'.
>>
>>How long does it take to dry, regardless of method? Heat
>>is applied. It doesn't destroy any property of lecithin
>>aside to change its physical state from liquid to granule.
>>The same occurs whether processing lecithin from soy oil
>>or even cooking (which only puts lecithin in solution with
>>other ingredients) with lecithin, dummy.
>>
>>
>>>>Now try again. With your claims that it is best to
>>>>consume lecithin 'raw' and that it is 'destroyed by high
>>>>temperatures,' aside from the absence of moisture, how
>>>>else are lecithin granules *chemically distinct* from
>>>>liquid lecithin?
>>>
>>>What part of 'temperature-sensitive food' don't you
>>>understand, 'usual suspect'?
>>
>>You're the one not comprehending or supporting your claim
>>that "lecithin is destroyed by high temperatures; it's
>>best to take it raw." The lecithin you purchase -- liquid
>>or granule -- as a supplement or a food additive has been
>>subjected to heat. Lots of heat over long periods of time.
>>It's *still* lecithin, it'll *still* work as an emulsifier
>>in either state, and it *still* contains choline.
>>
>>Just how is lecithin separated from soy oil anyway?
>>Lecithin is a combination of naturally-occurring
>>phospholipids, which are extracted during the processing
>>of soybean oil. The soybeans are tempered by keeping them
>>at a consistent temperature and moisture level for
>>approximately seven to 10 days. This process hydrates the
>>soybeans and loosens the hull. The soybeans are then
>>cleaned and cracked into small pieces and the hulls are
>>separated from the cracked beans. Next, the soybean pieces
>>are heated and pressed into flakes. Soybean oil is
>>extracted from the flakes through a distillation process
>>and lecithin is separated from the oil by the addition of
>>water and centrifugation or steam precipitation.
>>http://www.talksoy.com/pdfs/SoyLecithinFactSheet3.pdf
>>
>>Did someone say distillation? That involves heat, LOTS of
>>heat for a LONG period of time. So does steam
>>precipitation -- that happens at 100c over time:
>>distillation, process used to separate the substances
>>composing a mixture. It involves a change of state, as of
>>liquid to gas, and subsequent condensation. The process
>>was probably first used in the production of intoxicating
>>beverages. Today, refined methods of distillation are used
>>in many industries, including the alcohol and petroleum
>>industries.
>>http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0815646.html (read the
>>part about distillation processes, dummy)
>
> Apparently much commercial soy-derived lecithin is rancid.

IPSE DIXIT, DIPSHIT. HOBOES.COM DOES *NOT* COUNT AS A
VALID SOURCE.

> 'Much lecithin on the market is rancid. Thebest form of
> lecithin I know is Twin Labs brand "PC 55" - it contains
> 55% PC and is always very fresh. http://tinyurl.com/2rnyl

hoboes.com??? Mondo 2000??? Surely you can do better than
some Berkeley dork's personal zine.

> I wonder if they use a different extraction method for
> "PC 55".

Yeah, so do I. Not. Lecithin is lecithin.

> 'Lecithin is a complex mixture of phospholipids and other
> materials. They vary greatly in their physical form, from
> viscous semiliquids to powders, depending upon their free
> fatty acid content. They are almost odorless and will vary
> in color from brown to light yellow. Lecithins are used as
> dispersing, emulsifying and stabilizing agents. They will
> decompose at extreme pH, are hygroscopic and will oxidize,
> darken and *decompose at high temperatures*. Lecithin
> should be stored at room temperature protected from light.
> Refrigeration may cause the material to separate.'
> http://www.rx4u.com/lecithn.htm *emphasis added.

Ipse dixit. That site offers no evidence to support such
claims. It also flies in the face of soy processing:
lecithin results from a distillate process followed by centrifuge-
or steam-separation from soy oil. So it goes through at
least one stage in which sustained heat is absolutely
required, and optionally a second.

>>BTW, I'm surprised you advocate the use of a soy
>>byproduct. When soy lecithin supplements were given
>>throughout perinatal development, they reduced activity in
>>the cerebral cortex and "altered synaptic characteristics
>>in a manner consistent with disturbances in neural
>>function."
>>http://www.mercola.com/2000/sept/17/soy_brain.htm
>
> - in non-human animals,

So?

> possibly in excess.

Excess according to what or whom?

> I'm not keen on soy products in general, but I think that
> many of the problems discovered may have been due to
> contaminants.

The feminizing aspects of phytoestrogens are not
contaminants.

Rat pups, exposed to high doses of the plant estrogen
coumestrol (found in sunflower seeds and oil and
alfalfa sprouts) through their mother's milk, suffered
permanent reproductive problems: female pups when grown
did not ovulate, and males had altered mounting
behavior and fewer ejaculations (2). [Whitten, P., C.
Lewis and F. Naftolin. 1993. A Phytoestrogen diet
induces the premature anovulatory syndrome in
lactationally exposed female rats. Biology of
Reproduction 49:1117-21.]

Neonatal and immature rats exposed to coumestrol
experienced estrogen-related responses, such as
premature estrous cycles. Coumestrol also interrupted
ovarian cycles in adult female rats
(3).[Barrett, J. 1996. Phytoestrogens: Friends or Foes?
Environmental Health Perspectives 104:478-82.]

Newborn rats exposed to the phytoestrogen genistein (a
compound found in soy products), experienced altered
hormone secretions and the onset of puberty may have
been delayed because female rats were exposed to the
compound as fetuses (3). [Ibid.]

“In males, levels of 17B-estradiol and testosterone
were not affected, but levels of 3a, 17B-
androstanediol glucuronide (a metabolite of
dihydrotestosterone) and dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate
were decreased by 13% and 14%, respectively, after 2-4
weeks of daily soya ingestion.” [Supported by USPHS
CA56273, CA65628, CA45181, John Sealy Memorial
Endowment Fund for Biomedical Research, American
Institute for Cancer Research grant 95B119, and NIH
NCRR GCRC grant M01 RR00073]

All above lifted from: http://www.cheapbodybuildingsuppleme-
nts.com/articles/soyestrogen.shtml

Additionally, see: http://www.t-mag.com/articles/185soy.html
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/satter6.htm
 
P

Pearl

Guest
*the* village idiot "usual suspect" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> pearl wrote:
<...>
> > I wonder if they use a different extraction method for
> > "PC 55".
>
> Yeah, so do I. Not. Lecithin is lecithin.

“lecithin” differs from “phosphatidylcholine”, however.

'Supplements labeled as “lecithin” usually contain 10–20%
PC. Relatively pure PC supplements are generally labeled as
“phosphatidylcholine.” PC best duplicates supplements used
in medical research.
http://www.vitacost.com/science/hn/Supp/Lecithin.htm

'Impact of Cooking, Storage and Processing How do cooking,
storage & processing affect choline? Although consistent
information is not available on the effects of cooking,
storage, and processing on the choline content of food,
choline’s participation in cell membranes and in the fatty
portion of food renders it susceptible to alteration by
oxygen and heat. While maximizing choline content would not
be a good reason to choose raw egg yolk over cooked egg yolk
(too many safety risks are involved with raw egg yolk),
overcooking of foods high in choline would be a practice
worth avoiding to help preserve choline content. '
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=50

> > 'Lecithin is a complex mixture of phospholipids and
> > other materials. They vary greatly in their physical
> > form, from viscous semiliquids to powders, depending
> > upon their free fatty acid content. They are almost
> > odorless and will vary in color from brown to light
> > yellow. Lecithins are used as dispersing, emulsifying
> > and stabilizing agents. They will decompose at extreme
> > pH, are hygroscopic and will oxidize, darken and
> > *decompose at high temperatures*. Lecithin should be
> > stored at room temperature protected from light.
> > Refrigeration may cause the material to separate.'
> > http://www.rx4u.com/lecithn.htm *emphasis added.
>
> Ipse dixit. That site offers no evidence to support such
> claims. It also flies in the face of soy processing:
> lecithin results from a distillate process followed by centrifuge-
> or steam-separation from soy oil. So it goes through at
> least one stage in which sustained heat is absolutely
> required, and optionally a second.

Lecithin is produced for many different usages, I'm talking
about quality phosphatidylcholine nutritional supplements.

> >>BTW, I'm surprised you advocate the use of a soy
> >>byproduct. When soy lecithin supplements were given
> >>throughout perinatal development, they reduced activity
> >>in the cerebral cortex and "altered synaptic
> >>characteristics in a manner consistent with disturbances
> >>in neural function."
> >>http://www.mercola.com/2000/sept/17/soy_brain.htm
> >
> > - in non-human animals,
>
> So?

So they are completely different species with different
reactions to various substances. And you call others pseudo-
scientific quacks!

> > possibly in excess.
>
> Excess according to what or whom?

According to a RAT's tolerance, ducky.

> > I'm not keen on soy products in general, but I think
> > that many of the problems discovered may have been due
> > to contaminants.
>
> The feminizing aspects of phytoestrogens are not
> contaminants.
>
> Rat

Rats are not humans.

<snip cruel time-wasting 'research'>

> All above lifted from: http://www.cheapbodybuildingsupple-
> ments.com/articles/soyestrogen.shtml
>
> Additionally, see: http://www.t-
> mag.com/articles/185soy.html
> http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/satter6.htm