Nutrition on Audaxes

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by vernon levy, Feb 26, 2006.

  1. vernon levy

    vernon levy Guest

    Got several questions about nutrition on longer rides. I came close to
    bonking today - my own fault as know I did not eat enough to get me through
    the ride at a pace that I am capable of. However, I don't want to overdo the
    calories as I am trying to lose weight.

    What is considered to be an adequate supply of calories for 100km Audaxes?

    Is it possible to ride with a calorie deficit i.e expend more calories than
    are consumed?

    I get through three litres of an energy drink with around 300 kcal/litre on
    the ride plus some water - I don't think I have a problem with hydration.

    Comments please....

    Cheers

    Vernon
     
    Tags:


  2. Arthur Clune

    Arthur Clune Guest

    vernon levy wrote:
    >
    > What is considered to be an adequate supply of calories for 100km Audaxes?
    >
    > Is it possible to ride with a calorie deficit i.e expend more calories than
    > are consumed?


    My tips:

    Stop thinking about distance, and start thinking about time. Some people
    will do 100km in 3 hours and not need anything except a couple of bottles
    and a banana or two. If you are out there for six hours you are going to
    need rather more food. As you get faster you will then automatically eat
    less per 100km as well.

    Personally I'm not a big fan of energy drinks on anything except
    very intense rides where it's hard to hold solid food down. You'll be
    stopping at cafes anyway, so why drink sugary drinks as well? A cafe
    stop, some beans on toast, energy bars/ceral bars (I use geobars) and/or
    some bananas on the ride.

    I work on one bit of food per hour - so one banana or a energy bar. Add
    food at the stops and you should be fine. Make sure that what you eat at
    the stops is easily digested. Beans on wholewheat toast or similar.

    Arthur

    --
    Arthur Clune
     
  3. Keeff57

    Keeff57 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2005
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    >>What is considered to be an adequate supply of calories for 100km Audaxes?


    You should not need an enormous number of additional calories on a 100. Half strength energy drink (or less) is enough. Perhaps one energy bar at half way. Keeps the digestive system working, which is very important, otherwise everything you take in stays in your stomach instead of being absorbed. You probably got near to bonking because you were working a bit too hard.


    I used to eat loads on audaxes until I started riding with an East German girl who thought nothing of doing a 300 on 4 or 5 rounds of dry rye bread washed down with plain water. I was shamed into trying it and it worked just as well as sitting in cafes all day.

    You got round. Keep getting the miles in and next time you'll get round a bit easier.

    Keith Harrison
     
  4. Dunno. But you should be eating something at least every 1 1/2 hrs. Isn't
    that about the maximum amount of energy the body can store as glycogen? Or
    something.
     
  5. Simon Mason

    Simon Mason Guest

    "Simon Bennett" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:[email protected]
    > Dunno. But you should be eating something at least every 1 1/2 hrs. Isn't
    > that about the maximum amount of energy the body can store as glycogen? Or
    > something.


    You have about 2 hrs exercise worth of glycogen stored in your muscles, plus
    a bit in the blood and liver. After that is used up, you have to replace it
    with a regular carb intake. Of course, you have an enormous reserve of
    calories stored as fat, but despite what the Atkins lot advise, your body
    doesn't like running on fat alone. Personally, I like fajitas, bananas, fig
    rolls, go bars, plus jelly babies for a quick hit of sugar.


    --
    Simon Mason
    http://www.simonmason.karoo.net
     
  6. Jon is Away!

    Jon is Away! Guest

    Simon Mason wrote:
    > You have about 2 hrs exercise worth of glycogen stored in your muscles, plus
    > a bit in the blood and liver. After that is used up, you have to replace it
    > with a regular carb intake. Of course, you have an enormous reserve of
    > calories stored as fat, but despite what the Atkins lot advise, your body
    > doesn't like running on fat alone. Personally, I like fajitas, bananas, fig
    > rolls, go bars, plus jelly babies for a quick hit of sugar.


    And from what I remember (I really should know for certain -
    Biochemistry degree an' all that!) after a certain period of using not
    much other glycogen, your body will start using fat as a proportion of
    the fuel anyway. This was something I worried about for a while, but
    eventually I discovered that it was better to eat more while riding and
    ride more, than to worry about the food intake and thus bonk on rides.
    If you want to lose weight you're as well to be looking at your overall
    calorie intake on a (for example) weekly basis vs energy expenditure in
    the same period than worrying about intake while riding.

    [Important note: This advice comes with no guarantees and is based on
    personal experience and a possibly faulty memory - you have been
    warned!!!] You might want to consider eating lower levels of carbs at
    normal meals (ie not carbo loading before rides) and upping your food
    intake while riding. If you carry some highly sugary stuff for
    emergencies (Mars bar if you can stomach it) and the bananas / dried
    fruit / muesli bars etc of choice for general consumption, you can be
    reasonably sure that you're using te energy as it becomes available and
    not putting it down as fats.

    Jon
     
  7. JBB

    JBB Guest

    "Arthur Clune" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > vernon levy wrote:
    >>
    >> What is considered to be an adequate supply of calories for 100km
    >> Audaxes?
    >>
    >> Is it possible to ride with a calorie deficit i.e expend more calories
    >> than
    >> are consumed?

    >
    > My tips:
    >
    > Stop thinking about distance, and start thinking about time. Some people
    > will do 100km in 3 hours and not need anything except a couple of bottles
    > and a banana or two. If you are out there for six hours you are going to
    > need rather more food. As you get faster you will then automatically eat
    > less per 100km as well.
    >
    > Personally I'm not a big fan of energy drinks on anything except
    > very intense rides where it's hard to hold solid food down. You'll be
    > stopping at cafes anyway, so why drink sugary drinks as well? A cafe
    > stop, some beans on toast, energy bars/ceral bars (I use geobars) and/or
    > some bananas on the ride.
    >
    > I work on one bit of food per hour - so one banana or a energy bar. Add
    > food at the stops and you should be fine. Make sure that what you eat at
    > the stops is easily digested. Beans on wholewheat toast or similar.
    >
    > Arthur
    >
    > --
    > Arthur Clune


    My sister and I did the kKnnet valley 100k on sSaturday. not being quite as
    fast as Arthur we took six hours. I had tea and a hot cross bun for
    breakfast at 7.00 and tea before the start. We stopped at the first info
    about 10.30 and had another bun then tea and a flapjack at the halfway.
    Beans/spaghetti at the finish. I got through nearly 2 bottles of drink a
    60/40 mix of orange juice and water ( in summer its 50/50) and that did me
    until an evening meal at home. So for me it's little and fairly often. I
    think it's probably more important to drink enough than eat enough even in
    the cold weather. As regards the calorie expenditure think of it as part of
    the exercise you need to up your basal metabolic rate rather than what you
    need on the day to keep moving.

    HTH
    Julia
     
  8. vernon levy

    vernon levy Guest

    > Stop thinking about distance, and start thinking about time. Some people
    > will do 100km in 3 hours and not need anything except a couple of bottles
    > and a banana or two. If you are out there for six hours you are going to
    > need rather more food. As you get faster you will then automatically eat
    > less per 100km as well.


    100km and six hours go hand in hand at the moment .......

    I got things wrong today. A decent breakfast, two bananas, a chunk of flap
    jack and a third of a malt loaf was not enough. The malt loaf put some
    oomph back in my legs for the last 10 miles.
    >
    > Personally I'm not a big fan of energy drinks on anything except
    > very intense rides where it's hard to hold solid food down. You'll be
    > stopping at cafes anyway, so why drink sugary drinks as well? A cafe
    > stop, some beans on toast, energy bars/ceral bars (I use geobars) and/or
    > some bananas on the ride.


    Things were looking a bit too tight for me to linger in cafes
    today....missed the cake...oops I confess - I am a member of the CTC ....
    >
    > I work on one bit of food per hour - so one banana or a energy bar. Add
    > food at the stops and you should be fine. Make sure that what you eat at
    > the stops is easily digested. Beans on wholewheat toast or similar.


    Right, that's six 'nanas plus emergency rations for next weekend's mesh
    ride.....
    >

    cheers

    vernon
     
  9. vernon levy

    vernon levy Guest


    > You have about 2 hrs exercise worth of glycogen stored in your muscles,
    > plus a bit in the blood and liver. After that is used up, you have to
    > replace it with a regular carb intake. Of course, you have an enormous
    > reserve of calories stored as fat, but despite what the Atkins lot advise,
    > your body doesn't like running on fat alone. Personally, I like fajitas,
    > bananas, fig rolls, go bars, plus jelly babies for a quick hit of sugar.


    I already 'do' bananas but jelly babies.....I could go for those
     
  10. vernon levy

    vernon levy Guest

    > And from what I remember (I really should know for certain -
    > Biochemistry degree an' all that!) after a certain period of using not
    > much other glycogen, your body will start using fat as a proportion of
    > the fuel anyway. This was something I worried about for a while, but
    > eventually I discovered that it was better to eat more while riding and
    > ride more, than to worry about the food intake and thus bonk on rides.
    > If you want to lose weight you're as well to be looking at your overall
    > calorie intake on a (for example) weekly basis vs energy expenditure in
    > the same period than worrying about intake while riding.


    I am looking at my weekly eating habits as well as my riding diet. I though
    that I'd have lost weight last year on my LEJOG but was so preoccupied with
    avoiding the bonk that I lost only a few pounds. i'm sure though that I'd
    gained more muscle tissue and lost some fat.....

    I now want to lose more fat and am hoping to stick with moving more and
    eating less as a general guidline.

    cheers

    vernon
     
  11. vernon levy

    vernon levy Guest

    "Keeff57" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > You should not need an enormous number of additional calories on a 100.
    > Half strength energy drink (or less) is enough. Perhaps one energy bar
    > at half way. Keeps the digestive system working, which is very
    > important, otherwise everything you take in stays in your stomach
    > instead of being absorbed. You probably got near to bonking because you
    > were working a bit too hard.
    >

    That's a starvation diet!

    I have to work hard, I'm hauling a barrow load of lard around with me - I
    weigh 130kg
    >
    > I used to eat loads on audaxes until I started riding with an East
    > German girl who thought nothing of doing a 300 on 4 or 5 rounds of dry
    > rye bread washed down with plain water. I was shamed into trying it and
    > it worked just as well as sitting in cafes all day.


    That's German efficiency for you ;-)

    > You got round. Keep getting the miles in and next time you'll get round
    > a bit easier.
    >

    I got round but it was a bit of a struggle when I didn't expect it to be.
    I've started my audax rides this year 14 weeks earlier than last year and
    I've had a longer than anticipated layoff. I'm prepared to write off some
    of the leaden legs feelings to unfitness but I know I came close to bonking
    today...the symptoms were all there...

    I'll certainly be getting the miles in - I'll be riding an Audax just about
    every wekend between now and July with five or six 200km ones from May
    onwards

    Me losing some lard will be a great aid to upping the pace....
     
  12. davek

    davek Guest

    vernon levy wrote:
    > What is considered to be an adequate supply of calories for 100km Audaxes?


    I don't know - I'm not sure there is a simple answer to a question like
    that. "Enough to stop you feeling hungry" would be my estimate - pangs
    of hunger are your body's way of telling you to give it more fuel.

    > Is it possible to ride with a calorie deficit i.e expend more calories than
    > are consumed?


    Not unless the laws of physics have changed recently (your body cannot
    create energy).

    You store energy in your body in the form of glycogen. Once you have run
    out of glycogen, you will start to break down the muscle tissue to
    create more.

    So, you need to keep your glycogen levels topped up - this is what the
    energy drink is for: supposedly a more efficient way of topping up your
    energy than other forms of calories, such as cake. But I bet it doesn't
    taste nearly as good as cake.

    If I need a fast-acting energy fix, ie when bonking, I use Squeezy gels,
    but most of the time I prefer to eat proper food. You may have noticed
    the fondness for beans on toast and rice pudding among your fellow
    audaxers. This is no coincidence.

    On the Kennett Valley 200 yesterday, the lunch control was in an
    excellent cyclist-friendly cafe (in Bratton, Wiltshire). Plates heavily
    laden with beans on toast were flying out of the kitchen as fast as they
    could spoon them out. They must have got through a dozen catering size
    tins of beans, I reckon.

    > I get through three litres of an energy drink with around 300 kcal/litre on
    > the ride plus some water - I don't think I have a problem with hydration.


    With that much fluid, you're more likely to have a problem with drowning.

    d.
     
  13. David Martin

    David Martin Guest

    vernon levy wrote:
    > "Keeff57" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > You should not need an enormous number of additional calories on a 100.
    > > Half strength energy drink (or less) is enough. Perhaps one energy bar
    > > at half way. Keeps the digestive system working, which is very
    > > important, otherwise everything you take in stays in your stomach
    > > instead of being absorbed. You probably got near to bonking because you
    > > were working a bit too hard.
    > >

    > That's a starvation diet!
    >
    > I have to work hard, I'm hauling a barrow load of lard around with me - I
    > weigh 130kg
    > >


    When I was younger and lighter I'd get up in the morning, down a couple
    of slices of toast and ride 50 miles round the North Downs in three
    hours with a stop for a mars bar.

    These days I'd faint on such a diet as I am significantly heavier,
    slower and less fit.

    It would probably help if those commenting on 'I do X' could give a
    benchmark of just how much they are lugging aorund the roads. My all up
    mass is probably equivalent to a heaviliy laden touring whippet..
    Vernon makes me feel like a svelte lightweight though my times are only
    marginally quicker than his.

    > > You got round. Keep getting the miles in and next time you'll get round
    > > a bit easier.
    > >

    > I got round but it was a bit of a struggle when I didn't expect it to be.
    > I've started my audax rides this year 14 weeks earlier than last year and
    > I've had a longer than anticipated layoff. I'm prepared to write off some
    > of the leaden legs feelings to unfitness but I know I came close to bonking
    > today...the symptoms were all there...


    >
    > I'll certainly be getting the miles in - I'll be riding an Audax just about
    > every wekend between now and July with five or six 200km ones from May
    > onwards


    Goodness me that is a tough schedule. I remember doing a mountains trip
    (walking) every other weekend, and that was about as much as I could
    cope with as a fit and healthy young man.

    > Me losing some lard will be a great aid to upping the pace....


    I can empathise with that..

    ...d
     
  14. soup

    soup Guest

    davek wrote:
    >your body cannot create energy.


    Well "energy can not be created or destroyed" but it can be converted
    (think that's what he means) body fat converted into energy to make up
    the unbalance of input calories to used calories.
    --
    This post contains no hidden meanings, no implications and certainly no
    hidden agendas so it should be taken at face value. The wrong words
    may be used this is due to my limitations with the English language .
     
  15. David Martin

    David Martin Guest

    soup wrote:
    > davek wrote:
    > >your body cannot create energy.

    >
    > Well "energy can not be created or destroyed" but it can be converted
    > (think that's what he means) body fat converted into energy to make up
    > the unbalance of input calories to used calories.


    I have this completely unfounded theory that for short periods (under
    an hour) of moderate to intense activity, the ensuing dehydration aids
    in fat burning. The theory goes that in order for the body to make up
    the loss in water, it will burn fat resulting in carbon dioxide and
    water, with a little bit of phosphate thrown in for good measure. The
    phosphate of course can be recycled into ATP for more energy.

    ...d
     
  16. vernon levy

    vernon levy Guest

    > When I was younger and lighter I'd get up in the morning, down a couple
    > of slices of toast and ride 50 miles round the North Downs in three
    > hours with a stop for a mars bar.


    A mars bar!? You were lucky! As a lad I had to make do with licking the
    insides of discarded crisp packets on my rides.
    >
    > These days I'd faint on such a diet as I am significantly heavier,
    > slower and less fit.


    It's scary lookng at pictures of me in my youth. I'm literally twice the
    man I used to be....
    >
    >> I'll certainly be getting the miles in - I'll be riding an Audax just
    >> about
    >> every wekend between now and July with five or six 200km ones from May
    >> onwards

    >
    > Goodness me that is a tough schedule. I remember doing a mountains trip
    > (walking) every other weekend, and that was about as much as I could
    > cope with as a fit and healthy young man.


    I've discovered the Eastern Peaks and Plains Mesh and the DIY Audaxes of
    Sheila Simpson. It means that I can organise rides on my doorstep though it
    will not stop my riding in calendered events too. Amazingly, my wife is
    supportive as the rides get me out of the house and from underneath her
    feet, I get fitter and hopefully lighter and our kids have a more peaceful
    life without me around to tease them endlessly.

    Although I winged about today's ride, it was not as challenging as last
    weeks Mini NW 120km Audax it just felt that way caused by poor nutrition. I
    feel a lot fresher than I did last week and should be even fresher next week
    as I know the ride is definitely flatter and will leave me fresh for the
    Birdwell Wheelers Audax the week after that. I might even take my road bike
    instead of my Galaxy for that one.
    >
    >> Me losing some lard will be a great aid to upping the pace....

    >
    > I can empathise with that..
    >

    It's a shame food is sooooooooo tasty and I like everything that I
    cook......
     
  17. davek

    davek Guest

    soup wrote:
    > Well "energy can not be created or destroyed" but it can be converted
    > (think that's what he means) body fat converted into energy to make up
    > the unbalance of input calories to used calories.


    I'm not sure it works like that - AIUI you're more likely to make up the
    energy deficiency by breaking down muscle tissue rather than fat.

    You may be able to get away with putting less into your body than you
    use during the ride, but only if you already have a decent amount of
    energy in your glycogen reserves - ie energy that you have previously
    put into your body, so it doesn't really count as a calorie "deficiency".

    When glycogen runs low, you really do need to top it up by eating and/or
    drinking high-energy food (carbs).

    d.
     
  18. Arthur Clune

    Arthur Clune Guest

    davek wrote:

    >> I get through three litres of an energy drink with around 300 kcal/litre on
    >> the ride plus some water - I don't think I have a problem with hydration.

    >
    > With that much fluid, you're more likely to have a problem with drowning.


    3l in six hours isn't a lot. Except in high summer I work on one 750ml
    bottle/hr so I would easily have 3l in six hours. Of course, liquid
    drunk at cafes would count towards that.


    Arthur

    --
    Arthur Clune
     
  19. Arthur Clune

    Arthur Clune Guest

    vernon levy wrote:
    >
    > I got things wrong today. A decent breakfast, two bananas, a chunk of flap
    > jack and a third of a malt loaf was not enough. The malt loaf put some
    > oomph back in my legs for the last 10 miles.


    Indeed. My my rule of thumb that's four or maybe five bits of food (depending
    on how much malt loaf it is). The other advantage of working things out
    in 'bits per hour' is that it reminds you to eat every hour. Two bananas
    after two hours is not the same as one banana every hour.

    Arthur

    --
    Arthur Clune
     
  20. davek

    davek Guest

    Arthur Clune wrote:
    > 3l in six hours isn't a lot.


    Please allow me my facetious quips!

    No, you're right, it's not excessive at all. I wish I would remember to
    drink as much, but I never do - and often suffer for it.

    d.
     
Loading...
Loading...