obesity, diabetes, etc is result of diet

Discussion in 'Health Nutrition and Supplements' started by vlad, Aug 18, 2003.

  1. vlad

    vlad New Member

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    The Modern Scourge of Obesity:
    Dogs and Cats, Carbs and Fats, and the Evolution of the Human Race By Barry Groves, PhD <mailto:[email protected]>, article first publ on Redflagsweekly.com <http://redflagsweekly.com> Sept 9, 2002

    Why does obesity not afflict any other animal species? Why does obesity not affect primitive humans?
    As far as obesity is concerned, it is very noticeable that in their natural environment, animals may vary in size, but never in shape. The simple fact is that in their natural habitat, animals do not get fat: no rabbit gets fat by eating too much grass; no lion gets fat by eating too much antelope; no hawk gets fat by eating too many mice; no herring gets fat by eating too much plankton, and no wolf or wild dog gets fat from eating too many rabbits.
    Indeed, if we look around the animal kingdom, we find a striking absence of obesity in all species. It is also noticeably absent in primitive cultures of mankind. In ‘civilized’ man and his domesticated animals, however, obesity is all too common. This is highly significant.
    As a direct descendant of the wolf, the modern domestic dog is a pure carnivore. In its natural environment, it would catch and eat rabbits and other small mammals. Even if it were starving, it would never dream of eating ears of wheat or digging up potatoes. Man, however, has largely turned the dog into a herbivore. Meat is relatively expensive, so the domestic dog now survives largely on wheat, in the form of dog biscuits, and bread. It is little wonder, therefore, that man’s best friend suffers diseases that are totally unknown in its wild relatives but are found in civilized man: dental caries, cancers, heart disease, hypertension, diabetes and, most noticeably, obesity.
    The cat too is a pure carnivore that lives with man. But the cat does not usually suffer the diseases of civilization as the dog does. This is because it still hunts and eats mice and birds - its natural diet. Most prepared cat foods, unlike those for the dog, are also wholly meat- and fish-based. Thus, unlike the dog, a cat’s life and diet are still relatively natural. Indeed, the only time a domestic cat gets fat, or suffers other diseases, is when it is fed cat biscuits or other farinaceous food.
    We can make similar comparisons between human cultures. A study by Drs. W. S. McClellan and E. F. Du Bois found that the Eskimos in Baffin Island and Greenland living on a diet composed almost entirely of meat and fish, and eating no starchy or sugary foods were almost completely free from disease. This was not the case with the Labrador Eskimos. They had been ‘civilized’ and lived on preserved foods, dried potatoes, flour, canned foods and cereals. Among them the diseases of civilization were rife.
    A comparison between the Maasai tribes of East Africa, who live alongside the Kikuyu, shows a similar pattern. The Maasai, when wholly carnivorous, drinking only the blood and milk of their cattle, were tall, healthy, long-lived and slim. The Kikuyu, when wholly vegetarian, were stunted, diseased, short-lived and pot-bellied. Over the last few decades, the Kikuyu have started to eat meat - and their health has improved. Since 1960 the Maasai diet has also changed, but in the opposite direction. They are now eating less blood and milk, replacing them with maize and beans. Their health has deteriorated. The same is true of every primitive tribe that has had contact with civilization.
    What may be a good modern example of this tendency is the difference in the fact that African-Americans have a unique metabolic tendency to become obese quickly in current America, as well as a greater tendency to become diabetic. While Caucasian Americans roots are largely in Eurasia, where tens of thousands of years of ice ages were followed by the farming of grain for some nine millennia, Americans whose roots are in Africa have an entirely different dietary evolution up to the time of the slave trade. It is not surprising therefore, that their response to unnatural foods are so different from that of their white peers.
    Here is another example. Asian Indians are normally vegetarian or very close to it; they eat a more ‘healthy’ diet, according to mainstream medicine. With only one-fifth as much obesity, they are also slimmer and have lower cholesterol levels than Caucasians. Yet in the USA they have nearly eight times more diabetes than Caucasians! Remarkably, in some studies, the rate of type II diabetes in emigrant Asian Indians, amongst adult males, has topped 60%. In the UK, the rate of type II diabetes in Asian Indians is estimated at nearly 30%.
    The reason we (humans) alone suffer from obesity, diabetes, heart disease, cancers, etc, is our increasingly "unnatural" lifestyle. This includes our increasingly unnatural diet - for whether we want to admit it or not - we are basically a carnivorous species.
    As such, our bodies recognize dietary fat and protein and will control the amount we eat. But with no evolutionary history of consumption of the concentrated carbohydrates we now eat, our bodies don't recognize these as food and can't adequately control our intake. In other words, contrary to the popular beliefs, all calories are NOT created equal.
    Barry Groves, PhD, is an independent health researcher and expert on nutritional science. Amember of The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics, he has written for several British publications and has also been published in several medical journals, including The Lancet and Science. He is the author of Eat Fat, Get Thin, a slimming diet book based on the low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet his family has lived on for 40 years. For more information, see website Second Opinions <http://www.second-opinions.co.uk <http://easydiagnosis.com>
     
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  2. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

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    An interesting article, but some strange links made.

    I am sure that food availability, calorie density, lower activity levels, life style, culture, advertising, 'refined' and fast foods, smoking, drinking, cars, etc. all play a part in these illnesses.

    This applies to (refering to the text above);

    Animals - i.e. domestic dogs don't walk as far as wild dogs and receive a nutrient dense diet supplemented with snacks from their owners hence obesity. The cat on the other hand is more active and still eats a nutrient poor diet (cats must have meat as they are carnivorus while dogs are not) hence less obesity.

    Human's Kikuyu/Maasai probably eat a nutrient poor diet and meat probably adds to their diets nutritional content hence increased health. In the western world vegans don't have the same health problems (i.e. they are normal height and not pot bellied) because the quality of their diet is better and often healthier than the average McDonalds eater.

    I also don't think that the slave trade existed for long enough to cause black and white americans to have a different response to eating, because that would require evolution. Rather than the slave trade I think it was the fact that the european, african and american gene pools were seperated by geographical features for so long.

    I think this guy justs wants to sell books! If people got off their bums and exercised/eat well there would be less obesity, diabetes, etc. I think the obesity issue is an education problem not a misseducation problem!
     
  3. Trekn48

    Trekn48 New Member

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    Get off your butt, start dieting and start riding instead of hammering on the keyboard looking for pity!!
     
  4. Shabby

    Shabby New Member

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    Isn't it funny how it's always someone elses fault, and the answer is always by a radical change in diet?

    I got fat by eating badly and doing no exercise, and lost the weight again by eating well and doing lots of exercise.

    The other thing this dude forgot to mention is:

    Fat animals don't catch prey, they are prey. If had to catch my own food, I'd chase the fattest, slowest animal around. Hence, natural selection gets rid of obese animals.
     
  5. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs Guest

    I'm a doctor and it ain't a magique pill that's gonna' do it. Don't blame diet alone, in other words. Get off of your rear end and metabolize. BIKE. RUN.

    It's around the turn of the 20'th century that heart disease became paramount as the major COD (cause of death) in America. That's about the time when the demise of the farm coincided with an increase in automobile production. Get the message?
     
  6. sarablack

    sarablack New Member

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    Maybe part of the rise in heart disease/diabetes is because we aren't dying of other things first (TB, infections, starvation...)
     
  7. HellonWheels

    HellonWheels New Member

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    Generally I agree. But not all diabetics are fat. My father in law and my husband are both diagnosed type 2 diabetics...and neither are fat or ever were fat. I'm fat (size 14, anyway), used to be a LOT bigger before I got back to eating right (NOT dieting), and cycling...and I have always been in perfect health (thank God)..even tho I once weighed 305 lbs (I'm now well under 200 lbs).

    Its not always the weight. Studies from the Cooper Aerobics Center in Dallas actually found that what makes people unhealthy is NOT their weight but their level of activity. They found that a heavy person who is active will live longer than a thin person who is sedentary.
     
  8. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

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    I agree. Most illnesses are multi factorial as you suggest and it would be daft to think otherwise (i.e. like the original post). Exercise also has many effects on the body in health apart from weight management and benefits a whole range of illnesses. perhaps one of the greatest benefits of having a healthy lifestyle (its dificult to choose your environment and ginetics) is a better quality of life.
     
  9. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs Guest

    People are diabetic for one of two reasons:

    1. An insulin or insulin receptor defect;
    2. Lack of activity.
     
  10. fabs

    fabs New Member

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    may be someone should invent a 'pedaling seat' that would supply power to our computers in the office instead of just seating all day browsing on the internet!
    And if you stop pedaling you'd get fat and be eaten by a lion...
     
  11. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

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    Agreed, but there are many factors that contribute to 1 & 2.
     
  12. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs Guest

    Two things contrubute to item 1: genetics and viruses.
     
  13. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

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    Do your 1 & 2 refer to type 1 & 2 diabetes? Thought you were a chiropractor rather than medical doctor?
     
  14. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs Guest

    They refer to item 1 and yes I am a D.C., Diabetic Chiropractor and have taught this stuff for several in the community college system.
     
  15. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

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    kokopuffs, you are obviously more qualified than me on this one.

    Its just that you take quite a simplistic view, ignoring the interactions of things like obesity, smoking, diet, etc. on the prevention and management of the illness (particularly type 2).
     
  16. vlad

    vlad New Member

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  17. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs Guest

    Differentiating between types 1 and 2 are confusing to most people. One is either insulin or non-insulin dependent.
     
  18. vlad

    vlad New Member

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    Sir,

    I am now 71. I wish to be healthy, and to extend my useful lifetime through diet high in proteins and fats, and low in carbohydrates; and exercise.

    The info taught in my semester of Nutriton in college was largely contrary to Dr Herman Taller MD "Calories Don't Count" published 1961, and the remarkably similar Dr Atkins Diet Revolution published much later.

    your responce is a non sequitor that does not answer the question: In your opinion is the following information substantially correct?

    page 22 Let's eat right to keep fit by Adelle Davis

    a similar study was made at Harvard University by Dr Thorn and co-workers who determined blood sugar levels for six hours after meals high in carbohydrates.

    A high-carbohydrate breakfast consisted of orange juice, bacon, toast, jelly, a packaged cereal and coffee, both with sugar and milk. The blood sugar rose rapidly but fell to an extremely low level, causing fatigue and inefficiency. A packaged cereal eaten only with whipping cream for the high-fat breakfast, after which the blood sugar inceased slightly, then remained at the fasting level throughout the morning.

    The high protein meal consisted of skim milk, lean ground beef, and cottage cheese; the blood sugar rose to the high level of 120 milligrams and remained there throughout the entire following six hours.

    To determine the effects of different types of food on energy production, metabolism tests were taken at fcrequent intervals. The metabolism, or energy production, increased only slightly after the meals high in fat or carbohydrate. After the high-protein meal, however , the metabolism rose more quickly than did the blood sugar and stayed high throughout the entire six hour study period.

    p 23 sugar, cereals, hotcakes fruit, fruit juice quickly changes to sugar during digestion . in minutes blood sugar may increase from 80 to 155 milligrams ..stimulates pancreas to pour forth insulin; the insulin in turn causes the liver and muscles to withdraw sugar and store it as a form of sugar, or glycogen or change it into fat, thus preventing it being lost in urine. The tremendous amounts of sugar defeat the purpsoe for which sugar is needed -- to produce enegy efficiently. Too much sugar is withdrawn due to the oversupply of insulin; the result, ironically, is fatigue

    p 24 in studies mentioned, efficiency for three hours was produced by only 22 grams or more of protein. Meals furnishing 55 grams protein sustained a high level of energy and a high metabolism for six hours afterward.


    p35 "Let's eat right to keep fit" Adelle Davis

    When you eat more protein than your body can use immediately, your liver withdraws amino acids from your blood and changes them temporarily into protein storage. As your cells use amino acids the supply is replenished from the breakdown of stored protein. As long as your diet is adeduate, the amount of amino acids in your blood is thereby kept relatively constant.

    If you ignore your health to the extent of eating insufficient protein, the stored protein is quickly exhausted. From that time on, the less important body tissues are destroyed to free amino acids needed to rebuild more vital structures. Such a process can go on month after month, year after year. Your body continues to function after a fashion. Useen abnormalities set in because blood proteins, hormones, enzymes, and antibodies can no longer be formed in amounts needed. Muscles lose tone, wrinkles appear, aging creeps on , and you, my dear, are going to pot.

    It is possible, though not probable, that you may eat more protein than your body needs. After the storage depots are filled, the leftover protein is changed by the liver into glucose and fat, the nitrogen being excreted in urine; the sugar and fat may be used immediately to produce energy or may be stored as fat. Proteins are also used to produce energy whenever too few other foods are eaten to produce calorie requirments.
     
  19. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

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    Aren't you concerned about high fat/high protein diets also, as these carry their own risks.

    True high carbohydrate diets; particularly those that induce a high insulineamic response carry their own risks (and there is only limited evidence of this). Research looking at the interaction between exercise and high carbohydrate diets has shown that exercise reduces risks through a number of mechanisms.

    Even so, the recomendations for a healthy diet are far from high carbohydrate and far from 'Atkin's' type diets. Actualy somewhere in the middle.

    Why don't you eat a 'normal' balanced diet instead of a high carbohydrate or high fat diet and avoid refined fats and sugars?

    There are far more reliable sources of information out there other than the Atkins books!
     
  20. vlad

    vlad New Member

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    If I correctly understand what I read in Vilhjalmuir Stafansson "Arctic Manual" the Eskimo living north of the Arctic Circle ate land and marine animals, fish and fats. They had no diabetes, tuberculosis, heart disease or dental decay.

    sounds good to me

    Please see also
    Peter Freuchen Book of the Eskimo
    Farley Mowat People of the Deer


    plese tell me the names of sources of information more reliable than Dr Atkins books.
     
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