of all the moronic nanny-state nonsense...

Discussion in 'The Bike Cafe' started by CAMPYBOB, Jun 20, 2012.

  1. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    11,945
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    By ERIN McLAUGHLIN
    June 19, 2012

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/family-suing-website-cyclists-death/story?id=16605785

    Negligence Suit Filed Against Cycling Website Over Accidental Death

    Two years ago, William "Kim" Flint died while riding his bike down a Bay Area hill more than 10 miles over the speed limit, in an attempt to reclaim his title as "King of Mountain" on the cycling website Strava. Now, his family is suing the website for negligence, arguing Strava is partly responsible for his death.

    On June 19, 2010, Flint, 40, was killed while riding down South Park Drive in Tilden Park, Berkeley. He was trying to break the speed record for that stretch of road on the cycling website www.strava.com.

    Flint was a very active user of Strava, a sort of interactive social network for cycling enthusiasts. Routes are posted on Strava, and users try to top each others' speeds on specific courses. On certain paths, the fastest rider is named "King of Mountain." Flint regularly posted links to his Strava profile on his Twitter account, along with pictures of his speedometer clocking top speeds and routes on which he became "KOM."

    Flint held that title for South Park Drive, until another user beat his time. When he was alerted he'd lost his KOM title, he headed back to the hill to try to reclaim it.

    The speed limit on the road is 30 mph, and Flint was clocked going over 40 mph down the hill. He had to brake suddenly in front of a car, causing his bike to flip over, fatally injuring him.

    His family's lawsuit claims Strava should assume at least partial responsibility for Flint's death, because at the time of his death, there were no warnings on the site about dangerous courses, including the one he died on. That changed after Flint's death, and now South Park Drive Descent has been "flagged as hazardous."

    "For a user to get a KOM title, they have to go really fast and break the law," Susan Kang, the Flint family's attorney told ABC News, "and Strava creates a wild, wild West culture where that is encouraged and rewarded with no warnings about the risks."
    In a statement, Strava spokesman Mark Riedy said the company expressed condolences to Flint's family when he died, and they plan to fight the case.

    "Based on the facts involved in the accident and the law, there is no merit to this lawsuit," Riedy said. "We again express our condolences to the Flint family, but we will defend the company vigorously through the legal process ahead."
    In the Terms of Use section on Strava's website, the company lists a number of disclaimers.

    "You expressly agree that your athletic activities, which generate the content you post or seek to post on the site…carry certain inherent and significant risks of property damage, bodily injury or death, and that you voluntarily assume all known and unknown risks associated with these activities even if cause in whole or part by the action, inaction or negligence of Strava," the Disclaimer of Warranties and Liability section reads in part.

    Kang agrees that Flint, as an adult and avid cyclist, is responsible for his actions, but she also maintains that Strava needs to do more to prevent similar accidents.

    "Is it 100 percent Strava's fault? No, of course not," Kang said. "Do they have a responsibility to the public to encourage safety and take down the more dangerous routes from their website? We think so."

    Another high-profile accident is being tied to the website, ABC News affiliate KGO reports. A cyclist who killed a 71-year-old pedestrian in San Francisco's busy Castro District was reportedly tracking his time on Strava.

    Steve Bollman has cycled the road that Flint died on before, and he told KGO he has mixed feelings about the lawsuit.
    "On the one hand, I could see why you would think they should have some responsibility," Bollman told KGO. "On the other hand, descending on a bicycle is very dangerous business."
     
    Tags:
    airmaxtn likes this.


  2. danfoz

    danfoz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,432
    Likes Received:
    92
    I'm just waiting for the day someone decides a Big Mac is too big.

    Edit: Our fine mayor just banned XL sized soda's. As tragic as this fellows untimely demise, at some point a level of personal responsibility has to prevail. At least he was doing something he loved.
     
    airmaxtn likes this.
  3. jpr95

    jpr95 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    870
    Likes Received:
    30
    "Is it 100 percent Strava's fault? No, of course not," Kang said. "Do they have a responsibility to the public to encourage safety and take down the more dangerous routes from their website? We think so."

    Since when, in a country with a strong right to free speech do they have a "responsibility" to anything? Judges need to step up and start throwing this crap out so that it never sees a courtroom.

    I remember my parents asking me after I did something stupid at the behest of a fellow miscreant, "Would you jump off a cliff if so-and-so told you to?" "Uhhh, no..."
     
    airmaxtn likes this.
  4. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    11,945
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    You live in NYC? My condolences. Your Rino mayor is out-of-control.

    We had Cleveland recently ban trans-fats. Blatently unconstitutional in both instances.

    I don't use Strava, but I can see no reason to sue it. Will Bike Journal be next? There's more butthurt morons on this planet...
     
  5. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    11,945
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    Since when, in a country with a strong right to free speech do they have a "responsibility" to anything?

    Ah...I see you apply common sense to the situation.

    I'm sorry to inform you that you will never have a career in politics.

    Remember: IT'S ALWAYS SOMEONE ELSE'S FAULT!

    Can YOU help it you lost your King of the Hill title? No!


    Weird...when did they start awarding titles to folks that went DOWN the hill fastest? I thought it was the climbers that won the accolades for suffering going UP?
     
  6. jpr95

    jpr95 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    870
    Likes Received:
    30
    Sorry. I can't help but use common sense. My folks just gave me so much of it, that it's all I know. The thing is, I'd be happy to share plenty of it with the libtards, but they don't seem to want it.
     
  7. devil94

    devil94 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    I currently hold 11 KOMs on Strava, and not one of them required me to exceed the speed limit. I agree with CB ... the climbing segments are the ones I go after.
     
  8. jhuskey

    jhuskey Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Messages:
    10,606
    Likes Received:
    340
    Law suits can be filed but they must run through the process of discovery and then maybe a motion for summary judgment will be filed. Doesn't mean it will ever get to a jury. We have a no fault system here the US as far as paying expenses, and I live with it every day, Plantiff loses but loses nothing in a frivilous claim. It's a lot better than the lottery since it may be cheaper to settle out of court in mediation or just settle between the parties without mediation.
    Money won't bring back a loved one, if it would I would have filed a hell of a claim in 2001.
     
  9. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    11,945
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    Money won't bring back a loved one, if it would I would have filed a hell of a claim in 2001.

    My condolences. Been there, done that.

    A man without an accountant and an attorney is running naked IMO.

    I'm on several firearm forums, used to admin on one and still mod on two of them. Threats come in every now and again, letters from Esq. types very infrequently and no suits filed that I can remember in my time on Al Gore's intarwebz (Compuserve 4-digit member in...'88 IIRC) from the old dial-in mailing list days.

    Crashing a bike sucks. Someone dying at 40+ MPH flying off one sucks even harder. Suing the website where the rider logged his miles? Frackin' beyond insane!

    Well, I still have a racoon swiping my catfood and re-distributing my wealth! Time to take the Zastava Precision .22 LR out on the deck in wait silently for the Varmint Cong to come stealing into the back yard.
     
  10. Dave Cutter

    Dave Cutter Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2012
    Messages:
    603
    Likes Received:
    27
    Personal responsibility... is the forgotten liberty. Without the freedom to make [what some might call] poor choices... we become slaves to bureaucratic rules. Thank God we're [still] free to live our life's in a manner as we may feel fit.... even if it may be with an element of risk.
     
  11. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    11,945
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    I would subscribe to both of your newsletters! Dave & Dan...has a nice ring to it!

    The trouble with life is that the socialists, with the aide of a few moron conservatives, have made life somewhat safe from the effects of Darwinian Evolutionary rules & regulations.

    The Stoopid SHOULD be painful.

    The pain (hopefully...for those with twelve functioning brain cells) should remind members of the human race to NOT do stoopid things too often.

    I've got a friend that's a seriously fearless descender. For him, speed thrills. I'm much the same until it comes to them thar blind turns. Unless it's a closed course there's no way in hell I'm bombing them with bragging rights only on the line...not even for some $5 sleazy 'medal'. After another friend vaulted a guardrail on a fast sweeper, broke his neck and DIED...and anymore I'm even less inclined leave my front wheel & fork on one side of the guardrail and my bike and busted body on the other...like he did.

    If I ever whack my dumb azz and it's pretty easy for a third grader to know 'I' was the doofus that screwed the pooch...my wife knows to engrave my headstone with: CampyBob: Cyclist. And let it be.
     
  12. jpr95

    jpr95 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    870
    Likes Received:
    30
    I've come to notice that those most vocal about the merits of evolution seem to also be the most determined to prevent it.
     
  13. AlanG

    AlanG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2010
    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    21
    What does this have to do with a "nanny state?" A right to bring a suit is similar to freedom of speech and is a basic right. If it has no merit nothing will come of it but if someone feels they have been done wrong they have a right to say why even if it does not make sense to you or me.

    On the other hand, here is a dry cleaner being sued for $67 million for a lost pair of pants and of course the process can be abused. That's part of the cost for our freedom just as are countless deaths from gun violence.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearson_v._Chung
     
  14. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    10,057
    Likes Received:
    185
    http://abcnews.go.com/US/family-suing-website-cyclists-death/story?id=16605785

    Negligence Suit Filed Against Cycling Website Over Accidental Death

    Two years ago, William "Kim" Flint died while riding his bike down a Bay Area hill more than 10 miles over the speed limit, in an attempt to reclaim his title as "King of Mountain" on the cycling website Strava. Now, his family is suing the website for negligence, arguing Strava is partly responsible for his death.

    On June 19, 2010, Flint, 40, was killed while riding down South Park Drive in Tilden Park, Berkeley. He was trying to break the speed record for that stretch of road on the cycling website www.strava.com.

    Flint was a very active user of Strava, a sort of interactive social network for cycling enthusiasts. Routes are posted on Strava, and users try to top each others' speeds on specific courses. On certain paths, the fastest rider is named "King of Mountain." Flint regularly posted links to his Strava profile on his Twitter account, along with pictures of his speedometer clocking top speeds and routes on which he became "KOM."

    Flint held that title for South Park Drive, until another user beat his time. When he was alerted he'd lost his KOM title, he headed back to the hill to try to reclaim it.

    The speed limit on the road is 30 mph, and Flint was clocked going over 40 mph down the hill. He had to brake suddenly in front of a car, causing his bike to flip over, fatally injuring him.

    His family's lawsuit claims Strava should assume at least partial responsibility for Flint's death, because at the time of his death, there were no warnings on the site about dangerous courses, including the one he died on. That changed after Flint's death, and now South Park Drive Descent has been "flagged as hazardous."

    "For a user to get a KOM title, they have to go really fast and break the law," Susan Kang, the Flint family's attorney told ABC News, "and Strava creates a wild, wild West culture where that is encouraged and rewarded with no warnings about the risks."
    In a statement, Strava spokesman Mark Riedy said the company expressed condolences to Flint's family when he died, and they plan to fight the case.

    "Based on the facts involved in the accident and the law, there is no merit to this lawsuit," Riedy said. "We again express our condolences to the Flint family, but we will defend the company vigorously through the legal process ahead."
    In the Terms of Use section on Strava's website, the company lists a number of disclaimers.

    "You expressly agree that your athletic activities, which generate the content you post or seek to post on the site…carry certain inherent and significant risks of property damage, bodily injury or death, and that you voluntarily assume all known and unknown risks associated with these activities even if cause in whole or part by the action, inaction or negligence of Strava," the Disclaimer of Warranties and Liability section reads in part.

    Kang agrees that Flint, as an adult and avid cyclist, is responsible for his actions, but she also maintains that Strava needs to do more to prevent similar accidents.

    "Is it 100 percent Strava's fault? No, of course not," Kang said. "Do they have a responsibility to the public to encourage safety and take down the more dangerous routes from their website? We think so."

    Another high-profile accident is being tied to the website, ABC News affiliate KGO reports. A cyclist who killed a 71-year-old pedestrian in San Francisco's busy Castro District was reportedly tracking his time on Strava.

    Steve Bollman has cycled the road that Flint died on before, and he told KGO he has mixed feelings about the lawsuit.
    "On the one hand, I could see why you would think they should have some responsibility," Bollman told KGO. "On the other hand, descending on a bicycle is very dangerous business."


    King of the Mountain - isn't that supposed to be the guy that rides UP the farking hill the fastest? *forehead slap*

    If it takes a website app to make you go downhill faster than you've done before then Darwinism won this battle.

    [​IMG]

    ... a warning on a website about being able to do what 5 year old kids do - ie ride a bike and make it home.
     
  15. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    11,945
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    What does this have to do with a "nanny state?"

    The laws of the state have been subverted so that anyone and everyone can be held responsible for the decisions made by morons.

    The "state"...that's you and I, by the way...will pay for and take care of the mess made millions of idjuts every year. All done legally, by proscriptions handed down by judges and legislators acting without mandate.

    The state becomes the nanny that turns the right of petition into the "right of the people to pay gazillions just to plow thru frivolous cases that clog the legal (not justice) system, pay the inflated salaries and fees of all involved, pay outrageous and baseless awards and penalties, pay for the implementation, enforcement and prosecution of new, useless and unnecessary laws and to actually live with the unintended consequences of the effect on our country.

    If you actually believe that the naming of a cycling website that functions as a mileage log (all website serve as forums for bragging rights, whether it be the posting of a tight 5-shot target grouping, a restored farm tractor winning a pulling event, a fast quarter mile drag strip time slip .jpg or for some guy bombing off a hill known only to residents in a three-county region) is NOT a form of statism or nanny sate behavior...there's not much I can offer to change your mind.

    But...that is what it has to do with the ever-increasing reach of the nanny state. JMNSHO. One more lawsuit...one more law...one more unrelated party with $50 in its pocket named as 'at fault', one more law firm hoping to hit the lotto, one new 44-page section of code added to USC 18, one more...

    [​IMG]

    The trial lawyers association is currently painting the red circle/cross with a little pictogram of a bicycle on a downhill angle inside it as we speak...

    In all honesty, i doubt much will come of the lawsuit. Hopefully, it will be tossed.

    It is just the idea that some legal eagle would even think to name a website as being "responsible" for the unfortunate and accidental death that stinks to high heaven as the ultimate symbol of cycling nanny statism.

    Now, someone post the "If it only saves the life of just one small child!!!" demotivational poster. Thanks.
     
  16. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    11,945
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    King of the Mountain - isn't that supposed to be the guy that rides UP the farking hill the fastest? *forehead slap*

    [​IMG]
     
  17. jhuskey

    jhuskey Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Messages:
    10,606
    Likes Received:
    340
    The problem is that an individual can make a claim without an investment. If they lose they lose nothing. On the other hand the defendant must spend money to defend the claim. Most other, I'll use the term Democracies, have a system whereas if you lose you pay the costs of the claim. This would reduce a lot of the unmerited claims.It can cost anywhere from $10,000.00 to $150,000.00 or more just to defend a claim in a jury trial, win or lose. Some states have enacted laws to limit th eamount of recovery in claims especially when dealing with punitive damages.
    BTW: If you are not familiar with the process it is nothing like you see on TV. I just settled a claim that went on fot over 10 years. It was ultimately cheaper to settle than go to trial.
     
    lance_armstrong likes this.
  18. jpr95

    jpr95 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    870
    Likes Received:
    30
    Therein lies a huge portion of the problem, especially with medical claims. Someone sues, baselessly, a doctor for $5M, and the doc's insurance settles for $1M, but then hikes his rates. Do this multiple times to that doctor and many others, and suddenly over half of a doctor's revenue goes towards malpractice insurance--even for the best ones who make few, if any, mistakes.
     
  19. jhuskey

    jhuskey Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Messages:
    10,606
    Likes Received:
    340
    It was a 7 million claim but they settled for $50,000.00. It would have cost at least $125,000.00 plus time to try the suit. That is just one example and one of the problems. We live in a very letigious society and I blame a lot of it on the media which only reports a portion of the facts or their spin of the facts.
    You are correct about insurance except policies have underwriter on te hsecond or third tier of the liabiality hierarchy. There are only a few underwriters so we are all affected by these claims since these large companies are investment and holding companies that drive the economy.
     
  20. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    11,945
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    There are only a few underwriters so we are all affected by these claims since these large companies are investment and holding companies that drive the economy.

    "Too big to fail!"
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - moronic nanny state
  1. BassDave
    Replies:
    16
    Views:
    4,388
Loading...