Off topic: overtraining

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Derk, Sep 30, 2004.

  1. Derk

    Derk Guest

    Hi,

    I know it's not exactly TECH, but I don't know where else to ask it.

    Could anyone give a complete list of physical phenomena that occur when one
    suffers from serious overtraining?

    TIA, Derk
     
    Tags:


  2. DRS

    DRS Guest

    "Derk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Hi,
    >
    > I know it's not exactly TECH, but I don't know where else to ask it.


    Google is your friend.
    http://www.google.com.au/search?as_q=overtraining+symptoms gets over 14,000
    hits.

    > Could anyone give a complete list of physical phenomena that occur
    > when one suffers from serious overtraining?


    Mild leg soreness, general achiness
    Pain in muscles & joints
    Washed-out feeling, tired, drained, lack of energy
    Sudden drop in ability to run 'normal' distance or times
    Insomnia
    Headaches
    Inability to relax, twitchy, fidgety
    Insatiable thirst, dehydration
    Lowered resistance to common illnesses; colds, sore throat, etc.

    --

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  3. Jay Beattie

    Jay Beattie Guest

    "DRS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "Derk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > Hi,
    > >
    > > I know it's not exactly TECH, but I don't know where else to

    ask it.
    >
    > Google is your friend.
    > http://www.google.com.au/search?as_q=overtraining+symptoms gets

    over 14,000
    > hits.
    >
    > > Could anyone give a complete list of physical phenomena that

    occur
    > > when one suffers from serious overtraining?

    >
    > Mild leg soreness, general achiness
    > Pain in muscles & joints
    > Washed-out feeling, tired, drained, lack of energy
    > Sudden drop in ability to run 'normal' distance or times
    > Insomnia
    > Headaches
    > Inability to relax, twitchy, fidgety
    > Insatiable thirst, dehydration
    > Lowered resistance to common illnesses; colds, sore throat,

    etc.

    No social life, angry spouse or significant other, messy home,
    weed-filled garden, dog does not recognize you. -- Jay Beattie.
     
  4. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Derk <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Hi,
    >
    >I know it's not exactly TECH, but I don't know where else to ask it.


    rec.bicycles.racing ?

    Okay, you can stop laughing now.

    >
    >Could anyone give a complete list of physical phenomena that occur when one
    >suffers from serious overtraining?
    >


    _ The short answer is no. Everyone is different and has different
    manifestations. Probably the most common is a chronic cough or
    cold, since your immune system is weakened. Sleeplessness and
    depression are also common.

    Generally, if you think you're overtraining, you probably are and
    the sooner you rest the faster you'll recover. One day or a week
    off is not going to make you slower, it might make you a lot
    faster. Once you get beyond a certain point, learning when to
    rest is the hardest thing. Serious training is an addiction, the
    trick is to learn when the addiction is helping you and when it
    isn't. A coach can help a lot with this.

    _ Booker C. Bense


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  5. DRS

    DRS Guest

    "Booker C. Bense"
    <[email protected]> wrote
    in message news:[email protected]

    [...]

    > Generally, if you think you're overtraining, you probably are and


    In fact, most people don't know the difference between overtraining and
    merely having an off day. It's harder than they think to genuinely be
    overtraining. The symptoms have to persist over an extended period of about
    a fortnight. Overtraining can be quite serious.

    --

    A: Top-posters.
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  6. Weisse Luft

    Weisse Luft New Member

    Joined:
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    Surprised no one mentioned elevated heart rate. I have had OT only once and the HR of 85 beats/minute at night frightened me. I now know what it feels like and back off before tachycardia sets in. Just log your resting HR (morning is best) and if it jumpsmore than 10 BPM, back off!
     
  7. > I know it's not exactly TECH, but I don't know where else to ask it.
    >
    > Could anyone give a complete list of physical phenomena that occur when
    > one
    > suffers from serious overtraining?
    >
    > TIA, Derk


    In addition to the answers already provided, I think another important,
    though not technically "physical" phenomenon, is plain & simple boredom. If
    it's not fun and/or interesting, it's no better than a bad job. Riding a
    bike should never fit into that category (unless you're a pro making a whole
    lot of money, maybe... but even then, what have a bad job instead of a good
    one?).

    --Mike Jacoubowsky
    Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReaction.com
    IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member
     
  8. Michael Fuhr

    Michael Fuhr Guest

    Weisse Luft <[email protected]> writes:

    > Surprised no one mentioned elevated heart rate.


    That's elevated *resting* heart rate. In contrast, while exercising,
    you might notice a decrease in heart rate for a given perceived
    effort. For example, if "hard" is normally 170bpm, you might notice
    that "hard" is now 160 or lower and reaching 170 is impossible.

    --
    Michael Fuhr
    http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/
     
  9. Derk

    Derk Guest

    Michael Fuhr wrote:

    > For example, if "hard" is normally 170bpm, you might notice
    > that "hard" is now 160 or lower and reaching 170 is impossible.

    That's exactly what I'm experiencing.

    I haven't found a site yet, that lists *ALL* possible symptoms. Most sites
    just the most frequently occuring ones.

    Thank you all.

    Derk
     
  10. Michael Fuhr

    Michael Fuhr Guest

    Derk <[email protected]> writes:

    > Michael Fuhr wrote:
    >
    > > For example, if "hard" is normally 170bpm, you might notice
    > > that "hard" is now 160 or lower and reaching 170 is impossible.

    >
    > That's exactly what I'm experiencing.
    >
    > I haven't found a site yet, that lists *ALL* possible symptoms. Most sites
    > just the most frequently occuring ones.


    "There is no such thing as overtraining. There is only undereating,
    undersleeping, and failure of will."
    -The Barbarian Brothers

    Expecting a list of *all* possible symptoms is unrealistic: there might
    be subtle physiological or psychological reactions to overtraining that
    haven't even been identified yet or that are more likely indicators of
    other problems. That being said, here are lists of symptoms from
    several different sources:

    From _High-Performance Cycling_, Asker E. Jeukendrup, editor, p. 17:

    * Unexplained underperformance
    * Prolonged recovery
    * Reduced maximal heart rate
    * Reduced maximal blood lactate concentration
    * Increased sleeping heart rate
    * Excessive fatigue
    * "Heavy" muscles
    * Upper respiratory tract infections or other frequently recurring
    infections, such as colds
    * Increased susceptibility to illnesses and allergies
    * Sleep disturbances
    * Changes in appetite
    * Depression
    * Loss of competitive drive
    * Increased anxiety and irritation
    * Decreased ability to narrow concentration

    From _Serious Cycling_, 2nd ed., Edmund R. Burke, p. 229:

    Emotional and behavioral changes:
    * Loss of enthusiasm and drive; generalized apathy
    * Loss of joy in, and thirst for, competition
    * Desire to quit
    * Lethargy, listlessness, tiredness
    * Feeling peevish; easily irritated, anxious, ill-humored, bored
    * Inability to concentrate at work; poor academic performance
    * Changes in sleeping patterns; insomnia; sleep does not refresh
    * Loss of appetite
    * Loss of libido
    * Poor coordination; general clumsiness
    * Increased fluid intake at night; feeling thirsty

    Physical Changes:
    * Impaired physical performance; inability to complete training
    * Gradual weight loss
    * Looks drawn, sallow, and dejected
    * Early morning heart rate increases by more than 5 beats per minute;
    abnormal rise in standing heart rate and during and after a standard
    workout; slower recovery in heart rate after exertion
    * Heavy-leggedness; sluggishness that persists 24 hours or more after
    a workout
    * Muscle and joint pains; persistent muscle soreness from session to
    session
    * Swelling of lymph glands
    * Gastrointestinal disturbances, in particular diarrhea
    * Increased susceptibility to infections, allergies, headache
    * Minor scratches heal slowly
    * In women, loss of menstruation (amenorrhea)

    From _The Cyclist's Training Bible_, 2nd ed., by Joe Friel, pp 213-14:

    Behavioral indicators
    * Apathy
    * Lethargy
    * Depression
    * Poor concentration
    * Sleep pattern changes
    * Irritability
    * Decreased libido
    * Clumsiness
    * Increased thirst
    * Sluggishness
    * Craving for sugar

    Physical indicators
    * Reduced performance
    * Weight change
    * Morning heart rate change
    * Muscle soreness
    * Swollen lymph glands
    * Diarrhea
    * Injury
    * Infection
    * Amenorrhea
    * Decreased exercise heart rate
    * Slow-healing cuts

    Blood marker indicators -- significant decreases in any of the following:
    * albumin
    * ammonium
    * ferritin
    * free fatty acids
    * glycerin
    * hemoglobin
    * iron
    * LDL cholesterol
    * leukocytes
    * magnesium
    * triglycerides
    * VLDL cholesterol

    --
    Michael Fuhr
    http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/
     
  11. Derk

    Derk Guest

    Thank you very much, Michael.

    I did 12750 km this year till this day and have just come back from France,
    where I didn't notice any signs of overtraining. Back here, however, I
    noticed that my heart rate went up slower then usually and that after
    training my recovery was slower. I also felt small climbs in the upper leg
    muscles: my legs hurt.

    So I wondered if I could be suffering from overtraining. According to what I
    read that could easily be the case. I just can't believe that 2 hours of
    cycling/day could lead to overtraining, whilst pro riders train for 6-8
    hours/day without this problem.

    I did some slow rides the last 2 days and cycling went a lot better today.
    If I really am overtrained I'll be forced to do some more slow cycling from
    time to time....

    Did any of you ever do the Rusko test?

    Greets, Derk
     
  12. Terry Morse

    Terry Morse Guest

    Derk wrote:

    > I did 12750 km this year till this day and have just come back from France,
    > where I didn't notice any signs of overtraining. Back here, however, I
    > noticed that my heart rate went up slower then usually and that after
    > training my recovery was slower. I also felt small climbs in the upper leg
    > muscles: my legs hurt.


    If you just came back from France, you might have some travel
    induced fatigue. Long travel wipes me out for a few days.
    --
    terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
     
  13. DRS

    DRS Guest

    "Terry Morse" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Derk wrote:
    >
    >> I did 12750 km this year till this day and have just come back from
    >> France, where I didn't notice any signs of overtraining. Back here,
    >> however, I noticed that my heart rate went up slower then usually
    >> and that after training my recovery was slower. I also felt small
    >> climbs in the upper leg muscles: my legs hurt.

    >
    > If you just came back from France, you might have some travel
    > induced fatigue. Long travel wipes me out for a few days.


    Long travel? It's only 6 hours from France to the east coast.

    --

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  14. Derk

    Derk Guest

    DRS wrote:

    > Long travel? It's only 6 hours from France to the east coast.

    Since I live in Holland I travel by car: a 12 hour drive.

    Greets, Derk
     
  15. Derk

    Derk Guest

    By the way: while in France, I had my bike serviced by an ex Pro rider and
    former TdF mechanic. In his shop I met Pascal Chanteur who just ended his
    career as a pro-rider.

    Greets, Derk
     
  16. DRS

    DRS Guest

    "Derk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > DRS wrote:
    >
    >> Long travel? It's only 6 hours from France to the east coast.

    > Since I live in Holland I travel by car: a 12 hour drive.


    LOL. My bad. But that must be to the south of France. Paris is only about
    5 hours or so from Amsterdam, if I remember rightly.

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  17. Derk

    Derk Guest

    DRS wrote:

    > LOL. My bad. But that must be to the south of France. Paris is only
    > about 5 hours or so from Amsterdam, if I remember rightly.

    That's exactly right: from the North of Holland to the South of France is
    about 1200 km's.

    Greets, Derk
     
  18. DRS

    DRS Guest

    "Derk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > DRS wrote:
    >
    >> LOL. My bad. But that must be to the south of France. Paris is
    >> only about 5 hours or so from Amsterdam, if I remember rightly.

    > That's exactly right: from the North of Holland to the South of
    > France is about 1200 km's.


    Do you take a caravan? :)

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  19. Michael Fuhr

    Michael Fuhr Guest

    Derk <[email protected]> writes:

    > I did 12750 km this year till this day and have just come back from France,
    > where I didn't notice any signs of overtraining. Back here, however, I
    > noticed that my heart rate went up slower then usually and that after
    > training my recovery was slower. I also felt small climbs in the upper leg
    > muscles: my legs hurt.


    Those sound like symptoms of inadequate recovery, which can lead
    to overtraining if not addressed. As several people mentioned, an
    elevated resting heart rate is another easily-detected indicator.
    I take my heart rate every morning as soon as I awaken and before
    I get out of bed; if it's more than 3-4 beats higher than the day
    before then I usually ride short and easy, or perhaps even take the
    day off.

    > So I wondered if I could be suffering from overtraining. According to what I
    > read that could easily be the case. I just can't believe that 2 hours of
    > cycling/day could lead to overtraining, whilst pro riders train for 6-8
    > hours/day without this problem.


    Pros are almost certainly in far better condition than you are and
    their bodies are better able to handle the work load; they also
    have trainers and doctors whose job is to keep them fit. I don't
    know how common it is, but I know of one top pro who has blood work
    done regularly, even as often as daily during the final training
    for a major event (a friend of mine is a sports physiologist who
    has tested this particular rider for years).

    Volume of training alone doesn't say much -- intensity also has to
    be taken into account. A 2-hour interval session might be more
    taxing on your body than a 6-hour endurance ride.

    > I did some slow rides the last 2 days and cycling went a lot better today.
    > If I really am overtrained I'll be forced to do some more slow cycling from
    > time to time....


    Don't think of recovery rides as something you're "forced" to do --
    enjoy them as a time to relax and "take your bike for a walk," as
    one of my friends puts it.

    Recovery is important: if you don't give your body the rest it needs
    to build itself up then you'll just end up tearing it down. Perhaps
    you need to add more easy rides to your regular schedule -- what are
    you doing for those 2 hours each day?

    Some people think that the only way to exercise is to work as hard
    as you can all the time; they don't understand or appreciate the
    need for rest. Their performance suffers so they train harder,
    which makes their performance even worse so they train even harder,
    and so on. They end up digging themselves into a hole so deep that
    it can take months to recover.

    > Did any of you ever do the Rusko test?


    I haven't used the exact protocol, but in addition to taking my
    heart rate every morning before I get out of bed, I usually look
    at it when I put on my HRM as I'm getting ready to ride. If it's
    higher than usual then that tells me I might need to take it easy
    that day.

    --
    Michael Fuhr
    http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/
     
  20. Derk

    Derk Guest

    DRS wrote:

    > Do you take a caravan? :)

    No I don't. Since this year there are MANY policemen checking speed with
    laser guns and many radar cameras were installed. Most people think they
    can drive as fast as they want to, but I have seen that license plates are
    scanned automatically and license numbers are shown on the motorway with
    the mention that "licence number so and so has been caught speeding".

    Speeding tickets are a sure way to throw away a big chunk of your holiday
    budget in France. I'd rather spend that on my bike.

    BtW: 1150 km's in 12 hours is not that bad if you stop from time to time to
    buy petrol, eat something and don't forget: one has to drive a.o. through
    Antwerp (Brussels) and Paris.

    Greets, Derk
     
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