Oh Dear - When Marketing People Do Science

Discussion in 'Power Training' started by Roadie_scum, Aug 13, 2008.

  1. Roadie_scum

    Roadie_scum New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,288
    Likes Received:
    0
    A little off topic but I thought people here would enjoy it. Possibly the stupidest attempt to quantify aerodynamic drag improvements yet:

    "Avanti also has a new time trial and triathlon frame, the Chrono, and a track frame, the Pista. Wind tunnel testing of the Chrono has resulted in a bike that's 57 seconds/hour faster than the 2008 model, according to Avanti, thanks to slotted Jetstream stays, internal cable routing and other refinements. "

    :rolleyes:

    (from http://cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2008/features/2009_avanti08)
     
    Tags:


  2. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    10,011
    Likes Received:
    176
    "Avanti worked with Morgan Nicol of Oval Concepts in the San Diego Low Speed Wind Tunnel on the design of the Chrono. Managing director John Struthers admitted he wasn't sure the company would ever recoup the development cost of the Chrono, but it was clear everyone at Avanti was immensely proud of the very slippery-looking result. "

    Hmmm... looks like someone may have some data to actually validate that claim ;)
     
  3. Roadie_scum

    Roadie_scum New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,288
    Likes Received:
    0
    You are going along with the joke or you need to read it again?
     
  4. frenchyge

    frenchyge New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,687
    Likes Received:
    4
    That bike just uses metric time, which will certainly be outlawed by the UCI before it hits the streets. ;)
     
  5. simplyred

    simplyred New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2007
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    0
    LOLers.

    My brother is a marketing major and I'm a scientist. Now you wonder why we don't get along? ;) :D
     
  6. velomanct

    velomanct New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2003
    Messages:
    1,054
    Likes Received:
    0
    Marketers know the power of a placebo.
     
  7. Alex Simmons

    Alex Simmons Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    2,471
    Likes Received:
    19
    presumably in order to have time go faster, Avanti have also been able to lessen the impact of gravity making the gains in a hill climb TT even greater :D

    I can't believe I'm not in marketing:p
     
  8. fergie

    fergie Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    1,920
    Likes Received:
    7
    Avanti is a NZ company and this is just the latest in hype from a company that is full of talk and short on delivery. Their greatest contribution to the industry is to overstock their bikes and have to flood the market with cheap bikes where no one wins.
     
  9. waterrockets

    waterrockets New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah, I don't see it as being much worse than the efficiency claims made by Specialized, Trek, C'dale, and others regarding stiffer frames. Funny how nobody has ever been able to tell us how many watts are saved by increasing stiffness by X%.
     
  10. Alex Simmons

    Alex Simmons Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    2,471
    Likes Received:
    19
    I think you're missing roadie's point.

    You can't save seconds off an hour. An hour is an hour. 3,600 seconds. Unless you run on Avanti time then an hour is 3,503 seconds.
     
  11. waterrockets

    waterrockets New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm with you (and roadie). Just sayin'... :D
     
  12. frenchyge

    frenchyge New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,687
    Likes Received:
    4
    Alex, you take smart/nerdy humor to a whole new level! I wonder how many folks even 'get' what you're saying here or the brilliance of turning it into a cycling joke. Once again, very nice. <clap, clap, clap> :cool:

    Much too smart for marketing, I'm afraid.
     
  13. Roadie_scum

    Roadie_scum New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,288
    Likes Received:
    0
    I actually was looking at that wiki link and trying to work it into the start of this thread. I just wasn't quite smart enough to do it coherently. Well done Alex!

    :D
     
  14. Tri Tigger

    Tri Tigger New Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2006
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think 57 seconds per hour make sense.

    57s per 3,600s is just another way of saying 1.58% faster.

    If the marketing people had said, hey, it makes you 1.58% faster you would have had to think, I wonder how much quicker that is for my 40k TT. Oh, that's about 57s.
     
  15. Julian G.

    Julian G. New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2006
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ya, to the average person at the LBS buying a bike, 57s per hour would make a lot more sense than 1.58%. Even though it really doesn't make any sense, if you think about it at all.
     
  16. Roadie_scum

    Roadie_scum New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,288
    Likes Received:
    0
    Um... :eek:

    Speed1 = x = d/t1
    t2 = (100-1.58)/100 X t1

    Speed2 = d/t2

    Speed change = (d/t1)/(d/t2) X 100 - 100
    =t2/t1 X 100 - 100
    =3600/3543 X 100 - 100
    = 1.61%

    Avanti have undersold!!!!!!!

    Oh, that's about 52s. :D




    And we haven't even started talking about how aerodynamic improvements affect slower and faster riders differently and the magnitude of the gain for a given ability depends on whether you express distance improvement, given time, or time improvement, given distance. (Talking about this would be giving marketing too much credit... they don't deserve that discussion from what they've provided.)
     
  17. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    10,011
    Likes Received:
    176
    Bell, when they lauched their "Vortex" helmet years ago (which I'm wearing in my little avatar), they had similar blurb with pretty graphs 'n shit that "showed" how much faster their helmet was compared to others with the reference being a rider who could ride at 25mph for an hour with a standard road skullbucket.

    I know it's physically impossible to go 50 something seconds faster and still ride an hour for the same distance but we 'get it'.... Or at least some of us do.

    Would you drop $5,000 on a 1.something% improvement? No, probably not. Mention "this piece of kit will shave off 2 seconds per mile" and all of a sudden it's "wallet emptying, small mortgage" time.
     
Loading...
Loading...