OK so how many 2007 TdF riders are doped?



Eldron

New Member
Jan 24, 2002
968
2
0
The drug wheel goes round and round on this board but nobody actually says how bad they think the problem is.

Soooo what percentage of riders at the 2007 TdF do you think are doping?

I say <5%

Your thoughts?
 

Eagle of Toledo

New Member
Sep 7, 2005
258
0
0
Eldron said:
The drug wheel goes round and round on this board but nobody actually says how bad they think the problem is.

Soooo what percentage of riders at the 2007 TdF do you think are doping?

I say <5%

Your thoughts?

I would say there's a 99% chance this thread will be locked and you will be asked to carry on the discussion in the Doping section of the forum. I'm vehemently anti-doping, but personally I've had a gutful of these unsubstantiated speculations.
 

whiteboytrash

New Member
Mar 9, 2005
5,402
0
0
Eldron said:
The drug wheel goes round and round on this board but nobody actually says how bad they think the problem is.

Soooo what percentage of riders at the 2007 TdF do you think are doping?

I say <5%

Your thoughts?
One thing I've noted this year and similar to last year is that the riders are not backing themselves to go on a break up the mountains (solo)...... with the exception of Contador no rider is prepared to go on a break (im not including Rasmussen as I don’t seem him as a contender).... ie they look back when they attack... they slow.... they always want someone to come with them or they want someone to share the work (which the other rider won’t do)..... I think we are seeing that the riders aren’t willing to back themselves without EPO…. They are a little scared of blowing up going out alone…… now look back at the mid 90’s and through the Armstrong years……. You had 100kg riders shooting up the mountain off into the distance and not slowing until the end…….
 

Eldron

New Member
Jan 24, 2002
968
2
0
Eagle of Toledo said:
I would say there's a 99% chance this thread will be locked and you will be asked to carry on the discussion in the Doping section of the forum. I'm vehemently anti-doping, but personally I've had a gutful of these unsubstantiated speculations.

I'm with you on the gutful of unsubstantiated claims - which is exactly why I'm keen to see how bad everyone thinks the problem is.

Personally I reckon doping is mostly under control. There will always be a minority that think the risk vs. reward is worth it - hence my <5% feeling.

It's also why I asked about the 2007 TdF - I feel in previous years the problem has been much bigger.

The 2007 TdF is mostly clean I think.
 

snood

New Member
Aug 2, 2006
154
0
0
All the top GC guys dope. Its hard to put a percentage to the rest. Obviously its different programs for different levels. There are some completely clean guys though.
 

olo

New Member
Jun 24, 2006
24
0
0
Sinkewitz was tested positive for testosterone on june 8th.
 

whiteboytrash

New Member
Mar 9, 2005
5,402
0
0
snood said:
All the top GC guys dope. Its hard to put a percentage to the rest. Obviously its different programs for different levels. There are some completely clean guys though.
Well that’s another one of life’s great questions answered. Case close. Thanks Snood. We can close this thread now. Let me know when you finish the formula for cold fusion.
 

Eldron

New Member
Jan 24, 2002
968
2
0
whiteboytrash said:
Well that’s another one of life’s great questions answered. Case close. Thanks Snood. We can close this thread now. Let me know when you finish the formula for cold fusion.

Sheesh! Does nobody have a number? A gut instinct maybe? A rough guesstimate maybe? Even an order of magnitude would work!

Come on people - whip out the proverbials and put them on a block!

Pick a number and type it out...
 

dm69

New Member
Jan 24, 2006
533
0
0
snood said:
All the top GC guys dope. .
Oh...Okay, well backed claim you make there. Glad you could clear that one up for us.

Im waiting for Dr House to come in and say 100% of them dope but before he does i would GUESS! maybe 10-15% dope. Its certainly harder to dope this year than other years but there will always be a people trying to take the advantage.

I actually think this years racing had been quite aggressive. The top GC guys are attacking they just seem to be of similar ability and they all think they can win so they are keen to chase anyone down.
 

Rolfrae

New Member
Sep 15, 2006
983
0
0
Eldron said:
Sheesh! Does nobody have a number? A gut instinct maybe? A rough guesstimate maybe? Even an order of magnitude would work!

Come on people - whip out the proverbials and put them on a block!

Pick a number and type it out...
I don't know that the doping has stopped amongst some of the top GC riders, just think they might have toned it down. The way some people are riding it is either that they are actually off their old 'programmes' and aren't quite sure how they can race/last 3 weeks without it - or that they don't want to look too impressive and raise any eyebrows.
 

snood

New Member
Aug 2, 2006
154
0
0
The doping culture hasn't changed overnight, with so many undetectable methods out there. Transfusions, micro dosing EPO, experimental EPO, IGF, Testosterone, Doctor House's favorite Hemopure, Actovegin, etc.... You still have Valverde up there, Vino has used shady docs, Kloden was at Telekom, Contador and Pereiro may be in Puerto, Sastre rode three grand tours last year, Mayo is riding well. Fuentes is said to still be active. Verbruggen wants to make Relax Pro Tour. As long as he's around the UCI is shady. Believe whatever you want, I don't care. I agree with Rolfae that it may be toned down but its not gone. Far from it.
 

Bro Deal

New Member
Jun 26, 2006
6,698
4
0
Eldron said:
I say <5%

Your thoughts?
I have a bridge to sell you...

I guess that during training it's around 60 - 70%. During the TdF there are risks of getting caught by police so the percentage that dare risk having their stash discovered is lower. There are still whole teams like Disco, Astana, the Spanish teams, and such that appear to have team supported doping programs.

Looking at the condition Evans was in after stage 9 was interesting. He really looked like he was wasted. It was a huge difference to what dopers like Armstrong and Basso would look like when they finished a mountain stage.
 

whiteboytrash

New Member
Mar 9, 2005
5,402
0
0
Bro Deal said:
Looking at the condition Evans was in after stage 9 was interesting. He really looked like he was wasted. It was a huge difference to what dopers like Armstrong and Basso would look like when they finished a mountain stage.
I agree with that........ Menchov is the same...... he can barely talk and looks like somebody has punched him in the guts....... world class athlete or not its farking hard riding up a mountain for 5 hours...
 

Rolfrae

New Member
Sep 15, 2006
983
0
0
whiteboytrash said:
I agree with that........ Menchov is the same...... he can barely talk and looks like somebody has punched him in the guts....... world class athlete or not its farking hard riding up a mountain for 5 hours...
It didn't used to be so hard for George Hincapie. He used to ride no-handed up the mountains fixing his shades and chatting whilst smaller guys hung onto the back of their train pleading for mercy. Now George rides a few inches off the front of the bus. Popo used to ride on the front on the climbs too, and he was going to replace Lance as all-conquering team leader. Now he has to try and sneak away in breaks to be at the front on the climbs. There is no connection between these statements and doping. :rolleyes:
 

whiteboytrash

New Member
Mar 9, 2005
5,402
0
0
Rolfrae said:
It didn't used to be so hard for George Hincapie. He used to ride no-handed up the mountains fixing his shades and chatting whilst smaller guys hung onto the back of their train pleading for mercy. Now George rides a few inches off the front of the bus. Popo used to ride on the front on the climbs too, and he was going to replace Lance as all-conquering team leader. Now he has to try and sneak away in breaks to be at the front on the climbs. There is no connection between these statements and doping. :rolleyes:
I read this 5 minutes ago and still laughing...... the change has been staggering...... EPO works best for bigger guys.... there problems on the mountains is that they can't get the oxygen to the muscles fast enough.... but with EPO BOOM ! they become machines and the skinny climber is no more.... Hincapie is your classic example of this……
 

Bro Deal

New Member
Jun 26, 2006
6,698
4
0
Rolfrae said:
It didn't used to be so hard for George Hincapie. He used to ride no-handed up the mountains fixing his shades and chatting whilst smaller guys hung onto the back of their train pleading for mercy. Now George rides a few inches off the front of the bus. Popo used to ride on the front on the climbs too, and he was going to replace Lance as all-conquering team leader. Now he has to try and sneak away in breaks to be at the front on the climbs. There is no connection between these statements and doping. :rolleyes:
The change has been sudden and huge.

It looks like the team stopped their heavy duty doping support after Armstrong retired. If the team were busted receiving their blood then it would do huge damage to Armstrong's reputation. Maybe they dope during training but are no longer willing to risk transporting blood into France like they did in the last few year's of Armstrong's career.
 

Rolfrae

New Member
Sep 15, 2006
983
0
0
Bro Deal said:
The change has been sudden and huge.

It looks like the team stopped their heavy duty doping support after Armstrong retired. If the team were busted receiving their blood then it would do huge damage to Armstrong's reputation. Maybe they dope during training but are no longer willing to risk transporting blood into France like they did in the last few year's of Armstrong's career.
Armstrong had the balls (or ball) to resport to Nasa level doping - he had the desire to win at all costs but I don't think any of the current DC riders have that drive, to risk all, and I guess the prevailing conditions and altered culture wouldn't allow it. Can you imagine if that lot were riding hard tempo on the front like the old days, but this time for the embryo Levi instead of Lance, dropping everyone off the back whilst playing eye-spy to pass the time? Even Phil and Paul wouldn't put up with it! Yesterday Harman the ES commentator was pondering aloud why Popo hadn't lived up to his GC contender expectations and I needed a shot of EPO just to help me cope with shouting "he's off the EPO you ****!" at the TV.
 

Dead Star

New Member
Jul 6, 2004
793
0
0
38
I'll always remember that stage to Courchevel in 2005, when Popovych suddenly put in a huge burst of acceleration for his leader on that climb. Unbelievable, in both senses of the word!
 

whiteboytrash

New Member
Mar 9, 2005
5,402
0
0
Bro Deal said:
The change has been sudden and huge.

It looks like the team stopped their heavy duty doping support after Armstrong retired. If the team were busted receiving their blood then it would do huge damage to Armstrong's reputation. Maybe they dope during training but are no longer willing to risk transporting blood into France like they did in the last few year's of Armstrong's career.
BD I think the bottom line here is money..... Armstrong was more than willing to bank roll the doping for his top 5 riders knowing his ROE would be huge.... without Armstrong Hincapie and co. have gone back to garden variety school boy doping of cortisone and testy patches...
 

wolfix

New Member
Mar 11, 2005
2,756
0
0
[QUOE=whiteboytrash] they become machines and the skinny climber is no more.... Hincapie is your classic example of this……[/QUOTE] Hinault, Lemond, Eddy were not skinny riders. Nor was H Kuiper. And they all were great climbers. As good, if not better then anyone climber in the TDF right now except maybe Raz on a one day climb. It's just that skinny riders seem to be good climbers because that is the only time we see them because they usually are a one part act. Hincapie has the same historic build of a typical all around rider that can climb reasonably well. Of course, he may be rather bored with the TDF at this stage. You forgot to mention he has been on the winning team more then all the riders combined in the TDF presently.
 

Similar threads