Eldron said:The drug wheel goes round and round on this board but nobody actually says how bad they think the problem is.
Soooo what percentage of riders at the 2007 TdF do you think are doping?
I say <5%
Your thoughts?
One thing I've noted this year and similar to last year is that the riders are not backing themselves to go on a break up the mountains (solo)...... with the exception of Contador no rider is prepared to go on a break (im not including Rasmussen as I don’t seem him as a contender).... ie they look back when they attack... they slow.... they always want someone to come with them or they want someone to share the work (which the other rider won’t do)..... I think we are seeing that the riders aren’t willing to back themselves without EPO…. They are a little scared of blowing up going out alone…… now look back at the mid 90’s and through the Armstrong years……. You had 100kg riders shooting up the mountain off into the distance and not slowing until the end…….Eldron said:The drug wheel goes round and round on this board but nobody actually says how bad they think the problem is.
Soooo what percentage of riders at the 2007 TdF do you think are doping?
I say <5%
Your thoughts?
Eagle of Toledo said:I would say there's a 99% chance this thread will be locked and you will be asked to carry on the discussion in the Doping section of the forum. I'm vehemently anti-doping, but personally I've had a gutful of these unsubstantiated speculations.
Well that’s another one of life’s great questions answered. Case close. Thanks Snood. We can close this thread now. Let me know when you finish the formula for cold fusion.snood said:All the top GC guys dope. Its hard to put a percentage to the rest. Obviously its different programs for different levels. There are some completely clean guys though.
whiteboytrash said:Well that’s another one of life’s great questions answered. Case close. Thanks Snood. We can close this thread now. Let me know when you finish the formula for cold fusion.
Oh...Okay, well backed claim you make there. Glad you could clear that one up for us.snood said:All the top GC guys dope. .
I don't know that the doping has stopped amongst some of the top GC riders, just think they might have toned it down. The way some people are riding it is either that they are actually off their old 'programmes' and aren't quite sure how they can race/last 3 weeks without it - or that they don't want to look too impressive and raise any eyebrows.Eldron said:Sheesh! Does nobody have a number? A gut instinct maybe? A rough guesstimate maybe? Even an order of magnitude would work!
Come on people - whip out the proverbials and put them on a block!
Pick a number and type it out...
I have a bridge to sell you...Eldron said:I say <5%
Your thoughts?
I agree with that........ Menchov is the same...... he can barely talk and looks like somebody has punched him in the guts....... world class athlete or not its farking hard riding up a mountain for 5 hours...Bro Deal said:Looking at the condition Evans was in after stage 9 was interesting. He really looked like he was wasted. It was a huge difference to what dopers like Armstrong and Basso would look like when they finished a mountain stage.
It didn't used to be so hard for George Hincapie. He used to ride no-handed up the mountains fixing his shades and chatting whilst smaller guys hung onto the back of their train pleading for mercy. Now George rides a few inches off the front of the bus. Popo used to ride on the front on the climbs too, and he was going to replace Lance as all-conquering team leader. Now he has to try and sneak away in breaks to be at the front on the climbs. There is no connection between these statements and doping.whiteboytrash said:I agree with that........ Menchov is the same...... he can barely talk and looks like somebody has punched him in the guts....... world class athlete or not its farking hard riding up a mountain for 5 hours...
I read this 5 minutes ago and still laughing...... the change has been staggering...... EPO works best for bigger guys.... there problems on the mountains is that they can't get the oxygen to the muscles fast enough.... but with EPO BOOM ! they become machines and the skinny climber is no more.... Hincapie is your classic example of this……Rolfrae said:It didn't used to be so hard for George Hincapie. He used to ride no-handed up the mountains fixing his shades and chatting whilst smaller guys hung onto the back of their train pleading for mercy. Now George rides a few inches off the front of the bus. Popo used to ride on the front on the climbs too, and he was going to replace Lance as all-conquering team leader. Now he has to try and sneak away in breaks to be at the front on the climbs. There is no connection between these statements and doping.
The change has been sudden and huge.Rolfrae said:It didn't used to be so hard for George Hincapie. He used to ride no-handed up the mountains fixing his shades and chatting whilst smaller guys hung onto the back of their train pleading for mercy. Now George rides a few inches off the front of the bus. Popo used to ride on the front on the climbs too, and he was going to replace Lance as all-conquering team leader. Now he has to try and sneak away in breaks to be at the front on the climbs. There is no connection between these statements and doping.
Armstrong had the balls (or ball) to resport to Nasa level doping - he had the desire to win at all costs but I don't think any of the current DC riders have that drive, to risk all, and I guess the prevailing conditions and altered culture wouldn't allow it. Can you imagine if that lot were riding hard tempo on the front like the old days, but this time for the embryo Levi instead of Lance, dropping everyone off the back whilst playing eye-spy to pass the time? Even Phil and Paul wouldn't put up with it! Yesterday Harman the ES commentator was pondering aloud why Popo hadn't lived up to his GC contender expectations and I needed a shot of EPO just to help me cope with shouting "he's off the EPO you ****!" at the TV.Bro Deal said:The change has been sudden and huge.
It looks like the team stopped their heavy duty doping support after Armstrong retired. If the team were busted receiving their blood then it would do huge damage to Armstrong's reputation. Maybe they dope during training but are no longer willing to risk transporting blood into France like they did in the last few year's of Armstrong's career.
BD I think the bottom line here is money..... Armstrong was more than willing to bank roll the doping for his top 5 riders knowing his ROE would be huge.... without Armstrong Hincapie and co. have gone back to garden variety school boy doping of cortisone and testy patches...Bro Deal said:The change has been sudden and huge.
It looks like the team stopped their heavy duty doping support after Armstrong retired. If the team were busted receiving their blood then it would do huge damage to Armstrong's reputation. Maybe they dope during training but are no longer willing to risk transporting blood into France like they did in the last few year's of Armstrong's career.
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