A
Anonymous
Guest
"Dave Bird" <[email protected]> wrote in message news
[email protected]...
> In >Looking at your words "the (conscious) choice not to exercise", I think you have the wrong end
> of the stick: there isn't one. What causes the conscious choice not to exercise if you are
> lying on your bed with a severe dose of influenza? You feel exhausted and weak, you haven't
> the energy, and you JUST DON'T FEEL LIKE getting up and rushing around. That's the "choice"
> you feel like making. Not surprising, really, as your brain is in a fairly altered state. Most
> of these viruses are dopamine lowering. You feel like you could really murder a dose of mild
> opiate to blank the dull ache in the centre of your back which has spread into your limbs, and
> dry up all the saliva and mucus pouring out of you.
Dopamine may well be a downstream effect but with respect to viruses and systemic inflammation a
number of other factors need to be taken into account.
1.
Tnf a released during fever has the effect of downregulating G protein coupling thereby reducing
overall cerebral metabolic activity. This effect on G proteins, I think, will impact on Da
production but Da itself is only one player in the field.
2.
il 1 released under a wide variety of stressors and can generate NO via iNOS. This impacts on a
number of metabolic processes but more particularly excess NO can inhibit neuronal energy production
via NO competing with O2 for occupation on the electron chain transport elements. As il 1 and tnfa
are often released concurrently, this constitutes a double whammy on cerebral metabolism.
3.
Immunological activation will lead to increased IDO production by various immune cells including
microglia. IDO catabolizes tryptophan (useful in fighting microbes which often need that amino) and
this may be why people on interferon therapy(hep c and MS) and cytokine therapy (cancer) experience
depression. Robbed of extra cellular tryptophan, serotonin synthesis is inhibited.
4.
The generic pain often experienced in fevers is via cox 2 generation, many painkillers are cox 2
inhibitors. Again, immunological activation generally raises cox 2 levels in a variety of cells.
---
You can get all muddled up trying to understand the weight gain in relation to your drug regime. I
suggest an alternative approach.
Exercise in the morning, light to moderate, as exercise increases overall metabolic rate and if
intense enough will maintain the increase for a number of hours.
You could very well be under estimating the amount of sugars, especially via alcohol, think about
this. Try and do an accurate analysis of your total caloric intake, it can be upsettingly surprising
sometimes. Fact is: if you reduce your caloric intake and maintain exercise then weight must fall. I
know this from my gym days, would starve myself and train like mad. Very difficult to do, may not be
advisable for you, but it works. You need to be bloody determined though ... .
Try to develop a fasting habit. As with caloric restriction, fasting can have significant health
benefits and both have been demonstrated to have favourable impacts on cerebral health
(neuroprotective) and metabolism. You see, those old mystics weren't that stupid ... . It takes time
and in my case at least I now find it very difficult to eat a full meal. Don't eat full meals,
rather half meals throughout the day. Healthy ones! I think my stomach must have shrunk over the
years. It will take many months to do this but the effects may well last a very long time. Caloric
restriction is the only proven method for improving longevity in lab studies. Reducing caloric
intake doesn't necessarily reduce overall activity. I can easily go for 24 hours without eating, and
put in a 12 hour day on the books.
Vaguely, I recall reading an abstract indicating that administration of vitamin E can help reduce
tardive dyskinesia. How is your anti-oxidant status generally? If you are drinking alcohol are you
taking a vit B group s upplement (another study stated administration of B groups slightly improved
anti-depressant drug response). L-carnitine supplement may help in weight problems. With regard to
this paragraph see your doctor first! Eg. in a manic phase, though doubtful, L-carnitine may not be
such a good idea as it increases ATP production and overall energy availability. Also consider omega
3 supplementation, though not demonstrated for bipolar these fats have shown efficacy in a number of
conditions, including mental health ones.
The choice not to exercise is part of the human condition, trust me you're not unique on this one.
One way to overcome it is to coax yourself into exercise, beyond a certain level exercise becomes
natural and fun. I saw this so often at the gym, people became addicted to exercise. But then if you
like pot that ain't gonna happen. A lot of **** is said about pot but the one thing I have noticed
in myself and others time and again is that pot makes life too good, who wants to struggle when just
a cone away is another relaxing evening ... . Damn I've run out again. Maintain the meditation,
recent research shows it can have significant benefits. One recent study claimed it elevated left
cerebral activity over right, hence help in ameliorating depression. Also , some meditation types
boost melatonin production, good endogenous anti oxidant. See, told you those mystics weren't that
dumb. Tell me, can you meditate in the manic phases? Have your tried vispassana meditation during
these times? Hmmm, what an interesting show that would be ... .
The comments re moon, weather and sunspot activity are interesting. One of my side projects for a
number of years now. Something subtle may be going on here but having searched the literature I have
never been able to find anything convincing. However, on the weather side I'm sure there is some
subtle effect. No idea why though.
Learn to stay hungry, you'll get used to it.
John H.
PS: No more pot for you sunny Jim! Too dangerous.
> >But with free will, you can overcome this.
If free will is free then explain:
multitude of separated twin studies showing v. similiar preferences re mates, jobs, lifestyles,
haircuts, political leanings ... . The list goes on and on. Very little of our choices are actually
"free", often we make choices because of constraints imposed upon us. That doesn't sound like
freedom to me. "Free will" is a concept that has its origins in religious thinking, particularly
christianity and 'choosing' salvation; though a brief reading of theology (cf predestination,
calvinism, arminianism) quickly reveals how much grief the concept of free will has created. "Free
will" explains nothing about human behaviour, it is essentially a 'black box' concept revealing more
about our ignorance of our decision making processes than our personal and collective awareness of
our decision making processes. Free will is one of the greatest straw men ideas of history. As the
Buddha would say, "Throw it down!"
[email protected]...> In >Looking at your words "the (conscious) choice not to exercise", I think you have the wrong end
> of the stick: there isn't one. What causes the conscious choice not to exercise if you are
> lying on your bed with a severe dose of influenza? You feel exhausted and weak, you haven't
> the energy, and you JUST DON'T FEEL LIKE getting up and rushing around. That's the "choice"
> you feel like making. Not surprising, really, as your brain is in a fairly altered state. Most
> of these viruses are dopamine lowering. You feel like you could really murder a dose of mild
> opiate to blank the dull ache in the centre of your back which has spread into your limbs, and
> dry up all the saliva and mucus pouring out of you.
Dopamine may well be a downstream effect but with respect to viruses and systemic inflammation a
number of other factors need to be taken into account.
1.
Tnf a released during fever has the effect of downregulating G protein coupling thereby reducing
overall cerebral metabolic activity. This effect on G proteins, I think, will impact on Da
production but Da itself is only one player in the field.
2.
il 1 released under a wide variety of stressors and can generate NO via iNOS. This impacts on a
number of metabolic processes but more particularly excess NO can inhibit neuronal energy production
via NO competing with O2 for occupation on the electron chain transport elements. As il 1 and tnfa
are often released concurrently, this constitutes a double whammy on cerebral metabolism.
3.
Immunological activation will lead to increased IDO production by various immune cells including
microglia. IDO catabolizes tryptophan (useful in fighting microbes which often need that amino) and
this may be why people on interferon therapy(hep c and MS) and cytokine therapy (cancer) experience
depression. Robbed of extra cellular tryptophan, serotonin synthesis is inhibited.
4.
The generic pain often experienced in fevers is via cox 2 generation, many painkillers are cox 2
inhibitors. Again, immunological activation generally raises cox 2 levels in a variety of cells.
---
You can get all muddled up trying to understand the weight gain in relation to your drug regime. I
suggest an alternative approach.
Exercise in the morning, light to moderate, as exercise increases overall metabolic rate and if
intense enough will maintain the increase for a number of hours.
You could very well be under estimating the amount of sugars, especially via alcohol, think about
this. Try and do an accurate analysis of your total caloric intake, it can be upsettingly surprising
sometimes. Fact is: if you reduce your caloric intake and maintain exercise then weight must fall. I
know this from my gym days, would starve myself and train like mad. Very difficult to do, may not be
advisable for you, but it works. You need to be bloody determined though ... .
Try to develop a fasting habit. As with caloric restriction, fasting can have significant health
benefits and both have been demonstrated to have favourable impacts on cerebral health
(neuroprotective) and metabolism. You see, those old mystics weren't that stupid ... . It takes time
and in my case at least I now find it very difficult to eat a full meal. Don't eat full meals,
rather half meals throughout the day. Healthy ones! I think my stomach must have shrunk over the
years. It will take many months to do this but the effects may well last a very long time. Caloric
restriction is the only proven method for improving longevity in lab studies. Reducing caloric
intake doesn't necessarily reduce overall activity. I can easily go for 24 hours without eating, and
put in a 12 hour day on the books.
Vaguely, I recall reading an abstract indicating that administration of vitamin E can help reduce
tardive dyskinesia. How is your anti-oxidant status generally? If you are drinking alcohol are you
taking a vit B group s upplement (another study stated administration of B groups slightly improved
anti-depressant drug response). L-carnitine supplement may help in weight problems. With regard to
this paragraph see your doctor first! Eg. in a manic phase, though doubtful, L-carnitine may not be
such a good idea as it increases ATP production and overall energy availability. Also consider omega
3 supplementation, though not demonstrated for bipolar these fats have shown efficacy in a number of
conditions, including mental health ones.
The choice not to exercise is part of the human condition, trust me you're not unique on this one.
One way to overcome it is to coax yourself into exercise, beyond a certain level exercise becomes
natural and fun. I saw this so often at the gym, people became addicted to exercise. But then if you
like pot that ain't gonna happen. A lot of **** is said about pot but the one thing I have noticed
in myself and others time and again is that pot makes life too good, who wants to struggle when just
a cone away is another relaxing evening ... . Damn I've run out again. Maintain the meditation,
recent research shows it can have significant benefits. One recent study claimed it elevated left
cerebral activity over right, hence help in ameliorating depression. Also , some meditation types
boost melatonin production, good endogenous anti oxidant. See, told you those mystics weren't that
dumb. Tell me, can you meditate in the manic phases? Have your tried vispassana meditation during
these times? Hmmm, what an interesting show that would be ... .
The comments re moon, weather and sunspot activity are interesting. One of my side projects for a
number of years now. Something subtle may be going on here but having searched the literature I have
never been able to find anything convincing. However, on the weather side I'm sure there is some
subtle effect. No idea why though.
Learn to stay hungry, you'll get used to it.
John H.
PS: No more pot for you sunny Jim! Too dangerous.
> >But with free will, you can overcome this.
If free will is free then explain:
multitude of separated twin studies showing v. similiar preferences re mates, jobs, lifestyles,
haircuts, political leanings ... . The list goes on and on. Very little of our choices are actually
"free", often we make choices because of constraints imposed upon us. That doesn't sound like
freedom to me. "Free will" is a concept that has its origins in religious thinking, particularly
christianity and 'choosing' salvation; though a brief reading of theology (cf predestination,
calvinism, arminianism) quickly reveals how much grief the concept of free will has created. "Free
will" explains nothing about human behaviour, it is essentially a 'black box' concept revealing more
about our ignorance of our decision making processes than our personal and collective awareness of
our decision making processes. Free will is one of the greatest straw men ideas of history. As the
Buddha would say, "Throw it down!"