Old Raleigh with French components?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Dougc, Jan 22, 2003.

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  1. Dougc

    Dougc Guest

    This is a real head scratcher. I have disassembled an old Raleigh Record road bike to overhaul it
    and am evaluating what to do with it. I picked it up at a yard sale last summer, so I don't know
    much about its history, but based on the serial number, it appears to have been built around 1973. I
    am inferring from the total lack of lubrication throughout the bike that it didn't see a lick of
    maintenance in 30 years. Fortunately, it doesn't appear to have seen much use, either, since there
    is little or no wear on the various bearing surfaces and the chainwheels. It has cottered Nervar
    cranks and chainwheels, Huret deraillers, and Altenburger centerpull brakes. This being an old
    Raleigh, I fully expected the bottom bracket to be 26 tpi, but that does not appear to be the case.
    My calipers tell me that the BB is 35mm and the thread gauge indicates that it is a 1 mm thread. The
    bottom bracket shell is 71 mm wide. I have only removed the adjustable cup, so I am not sure whether
    the fixed cup is a left or right hand thread. I was not aware that Raleigh made any bikes with
    French (or Swiss?) BBs. The French drivetrain components are also a bit of a surprise. Has anyone
    seen this combination before?
     
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  2. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "dougc" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > This is a real head scratcher. I have disassembled an old Raleigh Record road bike to overhaul it
    > and am evaluating what to do with it. I picked it up at a yard sale last summer, so I don't know
    > much about its history, but based on the serial number, it appears to have been built around 1973.
    > I am inferring from the total lack of lubrication throughout the bike that it didn't see a lick of
    > maintenance in 30 years. Fortunately, it doesn't appear to have seen much use, either, since there
    > is little or no wear on the various bearing surfaces and the chainwheels. It has cottered Nervar
    > cranks and chainwheels, Huret deraillers, and Altenburger centerpull brakes. This being an old
    > Raleigh, I fully expected the bottom bracket to be 26 tpi, but that does not appear to be the
    > case. My calipers tell me that the BB is 35mm and the thread gauge indicates that it is a 1 mm
    > thread. The bottom bracket shell is 71 mm wide. I have only removed the adjustable cup, so I am
    > not sure whether the fixed cup is a left or right hand thread. I was not aware that Raleigh made
    > any bikes with French (or Swiss?) BBs. The French drivetrain components are also a bit of a
    > surprise. Has anyone seen this combination before?

    The Raleigh Record of the era used Altenberger and Weinmann Vainquer centerpulls interchangeably. If
    the right side cup is flush with the frame and has 16mm=5/8" flats it's a 1.37x26tpi BB. I don't
    know of any similar bike that's _not_ 26tpi.

    How did you measure the cup? A Raleigh 26tpi cup is 34.85mm which looks a lot like 35mm with a
    ruler. A caliper would resolve more closely.

    The Record was an "economy" model and less expensive that the "standard" sport bike of the era which
    used aluminum quick release hubs for example. The Record did have a Wright's leather saddle in most
    incarnations but was otherwise unremarkable. The next model up, the Gran Prix had much nicer
    equipment but a higher price tag too. The frames of both are quite similar, being a high-carbon
    tube, lugged with a workmanlike finish and pressed ends.
    1/2 chromed fork on a Gran Prix. The Gran Prix used French Simplex Prestige equipment. Other models
    (Competition with Simplex Competition and later Huret Jubilee, Super Course with various Huret
    over the years) of Raleigh were French-equipped as well. Heck, even the Sprite came with an
    Allvit changer.

    There's no reason this couldn'tbe a nice riding bike with a little cleanup. There's room for
    mudguards and provison for a carrier so you're way ahead of many new bikes for practicality.
    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  3. David Ornee

    David Ornee Guest

    According to Sutherland's Handbook "A Raleigh with 71 mm bottom bracket shell generally uses 26
    TPI." Sheldon writes about this frames and says the following: "Generally speaking, Raleighs that
    use cottered cranks will also have Raleigh 26 TPI threading for both the bottom bracket and the
    headset. Although the diameters of these parts are the same as B.S.C., the different thread pitch
    makes them incompatible. This article will provide strategies for getting around this problem."

    I suggest that you check with Sheldon Brown's article on this at URL:
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/raleigh26.html

    David Ornee, Western Springs, IL

    "dougc" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > This is a real head scratcher. I have disassembled an old Raleigh Record road bike to overhaul it
    > and am evaluating what to do with it. I picked it up at a yard sale last summer, so I don't know
    > much about its history, but based on the serial number, it appears to have been built around 1973.
    > I am inferring from the total lack of lubrication throughout the bike that it didn't see a lick of
    > maintenance in 30 years. Fortunately, it doesn't appear to have seen much use, either, since there
    > is little or no wear on the various bearing surfaces and the chainwheels. It has cottered Nervar
    > cranks and chainwheels, Huret deraillers, and Altenburger centerpull brakes. This being an old
    > Raleigh, I fully expected the bottom bracket to be 26 tpi, but that does not appear to be the
    > case. My calipers tell me that the BB is 35mm and the thread gauge indicates that it is a 1 mm
    > thread. The bottom bracket shell is 71 mm wide. I have only removed the adjustable cup, so I am
    > not sure whether the fixed cup is a left or right hand thread. I was not aware that Raleigh made
    > any bikes with French (or Swiss?) BBs. The French drivetrain components are also a bit of a
    > surprise. Has anyone seen this combination before?
     
  4. Dougc

    Dougc Guest

    Thanks for the info. I think this one goes into the deep freeze until I find a cheap (or free)
    crankset for it, since I dont' really want to put the cottered cranks back on. Can't anyway, since
    one cotter is now bent and the other had to be drilled out to remove it.
     
  5. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "dougc" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Thanks for the info. I think this one goes into the deep freeze until I find a cheap (or free)
    > crankset for it, since I dont' really want to put the cottered cranks back on. Can't anyway, since
    > one cotter is now bent and the other had to be drilled out to remove it.

    If there's a greybeard bicycle mechanic in your neighborhood, setting a pair of crank pins is a
    trivially simple job with the appropriate pins, tool and software (old guy needed). Nothing wrong
    with a steel crank for an urban errand bike once it's installed well.

    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  6. Dougc

    Dougc Guest

    [email protected] (Jeff Wills) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > [email protected] (dougc) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Thanks for the info. I think this one goes into the deep freeze until I find a cheap (or free)
    > > crankset for it, since I dont' really want to put the cottered cranks back on. Can't anyway,
    > > since one cotter is now bent and the other had to be drilled out to remove it.
    >
    > Any reasonable "old-school" bike shop should be able to get replacement cotters for you. Or you
    > can order them yourself: http://www.bikepartsusa.com/product_info.phtml?p=01-98774
    > http://www.bikepartsusa.com/product_info.phtml?p=01-98775
    > http://www.bikepartsusa.com/product_info.phtml?p=01-98604
    > http://www.bikepartsusa.com/product_info.phtml?p=01-98554
    >
    > The cotters should be pressed in - support the crank so you don't damage the bearings and them
    > hammer the cotter in. The nut's really only there to keep it from working loose.
    >
    > As always, Sheldon tells all: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cotters.html
    >
    > Jeff

    Thanks for the BikeParts links. I could have sworn that I looked for cotters there, but it has been
    a stressful week, so it may have been a hallucination.
     
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