old suntour vs. new low level shimano

[Sheldon Brown]

I reported:

>>There's a cool, little known trick if you have Sun Tour 6-speed indexing
>>stuff:
>>
>>Install a Shimano rear derailer and a 7-speed freewheel (new chain, too)
>>and it will all index just fine!
>
A shy person asked:
>
> Does this imply that a Shimano 7-speed freewheel will fit onto a wheel
> that is spaced for a Sun Tour 6-speed freewheel without any changes to
> the spacing or dishing?

It's not a brand-related issue.

Generally, a 7-speed freewheel can replace a normal-width 6-speed
freewheel with little modification.

Sometimes, you _might_ need to add a washer or two to the axle.

Sheldon "Cheap Upgrade" Brown
+----------------------------------------------+
| My mind is aglow with whirling, transient |
| nodes of thought careening through a cosmic |
| vapor of invention! --Mel Brooks |
+----------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[g.daniels]

the shim deray has a double pivot, the suntour a single.this is
like...tp? further, the shim is simply disentangled for pulley lube
AND provides an expletive dleted blowup on the shim website in case
roght?
but with that frame(and you linseeded or rusto-ed the
innernerds?)getta extra cog from harris-brown cyclery with spacer and
up to an 8!
i have an extra index shifter-ridden once by an old woman in palm
beach-send $$ and a small box.

They our burden not?

 

[Evan Evans]

[email protected]unged (Phil Brown) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >> if you can cite one instance of old fatigued prts putting anyone in
> >> the hospital I will publically retract this post. > Phil Brown
> >
> >http://www.campyonly.com/mypages/retrobike.html
>
> Sorry, I thought we were talking about sudden failures here. The cited crank
> had a a crack through about a third of the crank-the dark area-before it
> failed. The owner of these cranks put himself in the hospital by not checking
> his equipment every once in a while. And I have never seen a broken crank that
> didn't exibit signs of abuse, usually grounded pedal eyes.
> Phil Brown

Nice save!

 

[RonSonic]

On 22 Jul 2004 13:48:23 GMT, [email protected]unged (Phil Brown) wrote:

>>> if you can cite one instance of old fatigued prts putting anyone in
>>> the hospital I will publically retract this post. > Phil Brown
>>
>>http://www.campyonly.com/mypages/retrobike.html
>
>Sorry, I thought we were talking about sudden failures here. The cited crank
>had a a crack through about a third of the crank-the dark area-before it
>failed. The owner of these cranks put himself in the hospital by not checking
>his equipment every once in a while. And I have never seen a broken crank that
>didn't exibit signs of abuse, usually grounded pedal eyes.

Bingo.

Even though the text that goes with that picture says there was no sign of
failure, the discolored portion tells us there was a significant crack there to
be seen by anyone looking.

Ron

 

[RonSonic]

On 21 Jul 2004 16:14:43 -0700, [email protected] (Evan Evans) wrote:

>Gonzo Bob <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>> Which SunTour group is it? If it's Superbe, that stuff is terrible.
>> You should replace with ShimaNO and send the SunTour stuff to me
>>
>> Seriously though, SunTour indexing is good stuff. I've got GPX 7-speed
>> stuff on one of my bikes and I like it a lot.
>The cheepest of the new is 100 times better than the best of the old
>no question.

Oh, ********.

> If you like vintage stuff keep the bianchi as is. But buy
>a new bike. Besides if you plan to ride much at all you will be
>putting yourself at risk riding old fatigued parts. Bikes are not
>ment to last forever & they won't. Not worth the emergancy room visit.

More ********.

Ron

 

[big Pete]

Hi all Thank you very much for the good info.

I think I will leave the bike as is because all the components are working well and not causing me issues ... but that 7-speed upgrade that Sheldon motioned might be cool (I think I have the parts to do that ... somewhare).

Pete

 

[gwhite]

David Damerell wrote:
>

> ...the latter will be index-only and it will constantly get
> mis-indexed.

I don't adjust my indexing. It just keeps working.

 

[David Damerell]

gwhite <[email protected]> wrote:
>David Damerell wrote:
>>...the latter will be index-only and it will constantly get
>>mis-indexed.
>I don't adjust my indexing. It just keeps working.

And do you use the very cheapest parts available? Read the thread.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> flcl?

 

[Peter Cole]

"David Damerell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
newsTi*[email protected]...
> gwhite <[email protected]> wrote:
> >David Damerell wrote:
> >>...the latter will be index-only and it will constantly get
> >>mis-indexed.
> >I don't adjust my indexing. It just keeps working.
>
> And do you use the very cheapest parts available? Read the thread.

I don't know what the "cheapest" Shimano is, but I've used some pretty cheap
stuff. I have indexed bar-ends (8-sp) which I paid about $40 for, they have
lasted for several years and 10's of K miles without problems of any sort,
including no mis-indexing; I never adjust them. I also have put several pairs
of MTB-style, "Rapid Fire" shifter/brake lever combos on flat bar bikes (I
think I paid $15/pr); they also shift flawlessly and don't require adjustment.
Most of the bikes also have low(ish)-end (Alivio) rear derailers, which were
also very inexpensive, yet seem to be holding up very well. I think Shimano
stuff has really gotten better over the past several years, even the cheap
stuff.

 

[Erik Brooks]

John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote >
> >the Simplex stuff were some of the finest parts ever produced
> I've got Simplex retrofriction levers on some of my bikes and they are
> great, but other than that what Simplex part was so good?
>JT

The SImplex Super LJ rear derailer has been called one of the finest
RDs of all time, and better than the Campy of the period. I've got
one my early 70's Gitane TdF, and it still shifts like a dream. I'm
not going to ask it to index with a newer cassette, but for friction
shifting a freewheel of it's period, it's a real pleasure.

Erik Brooks, Seattle, who today enjoyed riding to work with mid-80s
Suntour stuff, also a pleasure.

 

[Erik Brooks]

big Pete <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hi all Thank you very much for the good info.
>
> I think I will leave the bike as is because all the components are
> working well and not causing me issues ... but that 7-speed upgrade
> that Sheldon motioned might be cool (I think I have the parts to do
> that ... somewhere).
>
> Pete

Pete - it might be easier and cheaper than Sheldon said:

I have a early to mid 80s Univega Gran Premio with Suntour Sprint
components. It came to me with a 6 spd freewheel - 13/23 and DT
shifters. I had one of the new $20 Shimano 7 speed FWs so I thought
I'd stick it on and just see if it would fit, and it did, barely.
It's a 14/28, and I had to screw in the B adjustment screw all the way
to get the RD to climb up to a 28, but it does.

My rear shifter control has 3 settings - check if yours does too.
Mine are marked:
U (for Uniglide? ) - this setting indexes with Suntour 6 speed
freewheels
F - friction
RE - indexes with non-Suntour (Suntour used unique spacing) .

When I tried indexing with the RE position, it worked just fine! At
least it did for a few months. Lately it's become more finicky - I
suspect I've bent the derailer hanger - but it continues to shift the
7 in the friction setting just fine.

I don't think I gained much from having 7 vs 6 speeds, but I did gain
lots but getting significantly lower gears, which I need for local
hills. YMMV.

I have another bike with STI, and I like that one for various reasons,
but I like the Univega just as much.

 

[gecwhite]

David Damerell wrote:
>
> gwhite <[email protected]> wrote:
> >David Damerell wrote:
> >>...the latter will be index-only and it will constantly get
> >>mis-indexed.
> >I don't adjust my indexing. It just keeps working.
>
> And do you use the very cheapest parts available?

Is an RSX r-der cheap enough?

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On 27 Jul 2004 13:58:12 -0700, [email protected] (Erik Brooks) wrote:

>John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote >
>> >the Simplex stuff were some of the finest parts ever produced
>> I've got Simplex retrofriction levers on some of my bikes and they are
>> great, but other than that what Simplex part was so good?
>>JT
>
>The SImplex Super LJ rear derailer has been called one of the finest
>RDs of all time, and better than the Campy of the period.

I agree it's better than the Campagnolo of the time, but even the
cheapest Shimano derailluer nowadays works just was well, if not
better.

JT

 

[David Damerell]

gecwhite <[email protected]> wrote:
>David Damerell wrote:
>>gwhite <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>David Damerell wrote:
>>>>...the latter will be index-only and it will constantly get
>>>>mis-indexed.
>>>I don't adjust my indexing. It just keeps working.
>>And do you use the very cheapest parts available?
>Is an RSX r-der cheap enough?

Only if it's the very cheapest available (which it's not - it's pricier
than my Tourney rder, which itself is pricier than no-name knockoffs) and
if the part that actually implements the indexing is equally low-end.

The claim I originally disputed was absurd.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!

 

[gecwhite]

David Damerell wrote:
>
> gecwhite <[email protected]> wrote:
> >David Damerell wrote:
> >>gwhite <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>David Damerell wrote:
> >>>>...the latter will be index-only and it will constantly get
> >>>>mis-indexed.
> >>>I don't adjust my indexing. It just keeps working.
> >>And do you use the very cheapest parts available?
> >Is an RSX r-der cheap enough?
>
> Only if it's the very cheapest available (which it's not - it's pricier
> than my Tourney rder, which itself is pricier than no-name knockoffs) and
> if the part that actually implements the indexing is equally low-end.
>
> The claim I originally disputed was absurd.


I didn't take "the cheepest" that literally. I took it more in the line
of "low level," as in the header. If the interpretation is strict, then
perhaps you're correct (I don't use that stuff), but I doubt the OP
would actually go to that low.

I've looked at "the cheepest" in department stores. It indexes
suprisingly well. Whether it holds that adjustment well is something I
may never have first hand experience with.

 

[g.daniels]

maybe the 8 speed cluster is useable? With axle spacers or a set
shifter adjustment easily switched, the cluster can be used in 7
speeds starting with the large cog or 7 beginning with the small cog.
also, consider an atb cluster-no chrome and ten plus bucks cheaper for
it.
buy new bearings all round with the $10 and inspect the cones.lube is
only good for 1-2 years before the stuff dries out.

 

[g.daniels]

we're back! the used bike needs new bearings and lube
so you need the manuals and a few tools
otherwise ura gonna wind up with a $$$ new bike cost with an old bike
real quick
this is not a problem. save your sheckels and buy the stuff mail
odor(nashbar) after xmas
and repack new bearings.
ifn u don't everything will wear out-headset...
and then square one $$$ again opr worse ifn ur still at the LBS
whose demons now know u as pigeon.
also be advised the parts ur riding are vastly inferior to new
shimano.
that may not be knowable to u now butbubtut
YOU WILL LEARN!!paint the frames inside ona hot day

read this stuff:

The dancing chain :
history and development of the derailleur bicycle /
Author: Berto, Frank.; Shepherd, Ron.; Henry, Raymond.

Bicycling magazine's complete guide to upgrading your bike /
Author: Berto, Frank J.
Publication: Emmaus, Pa. : Rodale Press, 1988

www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/page35.htm

search google groups for:suntour frank berto