older dura-ace crank, newer pedals



Status
Not open for further replies.
that really is an interesting design of crank - extreme fatigue paranoia.

massively oversize pedal threads are one way of tackling that common breakage point. the asymmetric
spider is a way to address the other common break initiated on the loaded side of the crank arm.

great pic!

jb

Sheldon Brown wrote:
> Mike S. wrote:
>
>> I'm not so sure about that. IIRC spindles were pretty standard till Shimano tried the low profile
>> stuff with the ?7410? series. Not sure about the exact # of the first low profile D/A...
>
>
> I've been meaning to put up the 1982 Shimano catalogue I recently scanned, this thread gave me the
> push to do the needed Photoshopping.
>
> Looks like 107 mm.
>
> See: http://sheldonbrown.com/shimano1982/pages/15.html
>
> Sheldon "Scanner" Brown +------------------------------------------------+
> | If you don't want your message to get to me, |
> | insert **NO-SPAM** into my email address. |
> +------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
> Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
> http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
"Bill Putnam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Jay Beattie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > ... Put it together with some Rigida 13-20s. These are solid
parts that will
> > last you a lifetime! -- Jay Beattie.
>
> Jay,
>
> In my experience Rigida 13-20's are prone to cracking. These
were
> very common on early TREK bicycles that were the rage in my
area
> (Madison WI) back some 25 years ago. The 13-20 has single
eyelets
> only, unlike the MAVIC E3 or MA-2, and with enough miles, the
13-20's
> will crack.

Bill, I was joking about the component selection. I crushed several 13-20s (they had exceptionally
soft sidewalls) and thought they were the weakest rims among their peers, e.g., the
E2/Gentleman. I see that Benjamin has had good luck with them, and I wish him continued good luck.
-- Jay Beattie.
 
"Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike S. wrote:
>
> > I'm not so sure about that. IIRC spindles were pretty
standard till
> > Shimano tried the low profile stuff with the ?7410? series.
Not sure about
> > the exact # of the first low profile D/A...
>
> I've been meaning to put up the 1982 Shimano catalogue I
recently
> scanned, this thread gave me the push to do the needed
Photoshopping.
>
> Looks like 107 mm.

It is interesting to me that Shimano had three Dura Ace groups, including the "classic" group with
the same Campy NR knock-off crank they had been selling since '73, IIRC (I bought one in '76). --
Jay Beattie.
 
Bless your bandwidth Mr. Brown.

I remember picking up that very catalog at RRB Cycles in Evanston? Illinois. I took it to high
school and showed all of my friends. I bought the Shimano 600 EX short cage deraileur (with
arabesque) and a Sheimano 600 EX crankset (also with arabesque) and 39 x 48 rings.

Those were some of my first high quality cycling purchases. The crankset is still in use
on my fixer.

Thank you

Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> I've been meaning to put up the 1982 Shimano catalogue I recently scanned, this thread gave me the
> push to do the needed Photoshopping.
>
> Looks like 107 mm.
>
> See: http://sheldonbrown.com/shimano1982/pages/15.html
>
> Sheldon "Scanner" Brown +------------------------------------------------+
> | If you don't want your message to get to me, |
> | insert **NO-SPAM** into my email address. |
> +------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
> Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
> http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I've been meaning to put up the 1982 Shimano catalogue I recently scanned, this thread gave me the
> push to do the needed Photoshopping.
>
> Looks like 107 mm.
>
> See: http://sheldonbrown.com/shimano1982/pages/15.html
>
> Sheldon "Scanner" Brown

Holy LSD flashback, Batman!

I can recall finding a couple (that is, *2*) 11-tooth cogs for the original Dura-Ace freehubs on the
shelf at Euro-Asia Imports. I wonder if anyone ever had the guts to run an 11 to 16 corncob
cassette. It was certainly possible with available parts.

Speaking of scanners, my head just exploded.

Jeff "Boom!" Wills
 
jim beam <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> that really is an interesting design of crank - extreme fatigue paranoia.
>
> massively oversize pedal threads are one way of tackling that common breakage point. the
> asymmetric spider is a way to address the other common break initiated on the loaded side of the
> crank arm.
>
> great pic!
>
> jb
>
> Sheldon Brown wrote:
> > I've been meaning to put up the 1982 Shimano catalogue I recently scanned, this thread gave me
> > the push to do the needed Photoshopping.
> >
> > Looks like 107 mm.
> >
> > See: http://sheldonbrown.com/shimano1982/pages/15.html
> >
> > Sheldon "Scanner" Brown

Dear Jim and Sheldon,

I was wondering about those giant holes for the pedals. While I can see how this might prevent the
pedals themselves from breaking, how does it stop the pedal eye from breaking?

(Assuming that it does.)

Are coarse, monstrous thread grooves less likely to initiate cracks? Does the huge hole spread the
load out and thus avoid concentrating local stresses? If it worked, why'd they stop doing that?

At first glance, it looks as if those skinny metal hoops at the ends of the cranks would bust if
Chalo Colina just rested one foot on the pedal while waiting at a traffic light.

What gives? (Or rather, what doesn't give, and why?)

Perplexed as usual,

Carl Fogel
 
Carl Fogel wrote:

> I was wondering about those giant holes for the pedals. While I can see how this might prevent the
> pedals themselves from breaking, how does it stop the pedal eye from breaking?
>
> (Assuming that it does.)

I've never heard of such breakage on one a Dyna Drive crank. The leverage is much less.

> Are coarse, monstrous thread grooves less likely to initiate cracks?

Actually, the thread pitch is finer, 24 tpi for Dyna Drive, vs 20 tpi for standard pedals.

> Does the huge hole spread the load out and thus avoid concentrating local stresses? If it worked,
> why'd they stop doing that?

Crank breakage wasn't the problem Dyna Drive was intended to solve. Shimano believed there was a
biomechanical advantage to getting the sole of the foot below the pedal's axis of rotation.

Picture pedaling in thick platform shoes, not good, right? Dyna Drive was intended to eliminate this
"problem."

Time also makes a bit of a point about getting the sole of the foot to be lower with respect to the
pedals axis, but they never went to the extreme that Shimano did.

The reason for the big holes is that the pedals' bearings are inside the threaded spindle, and the
foot platform hangs down below.

This was also the principal failing of Dyna Drive, the bearings were troublesome.

I've got a couple of sets of these squirreled away myself, I keep meaning to put 'em on a bike
someday, only I can't bear to go back to traps & straps.

Sheldon "SPDoholic" Brown +----------------------------------------+
| Promote the institution of marriage: |
| Make it available to all adults! |
+----------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-
9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
Sheldon Brown wrote:
> Carl Fogel wrote:
>
>> I was wondering about those giant holes for the pedals. While I can see how this might prevent
>> the pedals themselves from breaking, how does it stop the pedal eye from breaking?
>>
>> (Assuming that it does.)
>
>
> I've never heard of such breakage on one a Dyna Drive crank. The leverage is much less.
>
>> Are coarse, monstrous thread grooves less likely to initiate cracks?
>
>
> Actually, the thread pitch is finer, 24 tpi for Dyna Drive, vs 20 tpi for standard pedals.
>
>> Does the huge hole spread the load out and thus avoid concentrating local stresses? If it worked,
>> why'd they stop doing that?
>
>
> Crank breakage wasn't the problem Dyna Drive was intended to solve.

correct, the pedal spindle doesn't address it, but the asymmetric spider does if it is connected in
the right way to the crank arm - less leverage.

> Shimano believed there was a biomechanical advantage to getting the sole of the foot below the
> pedal's axis of rotation.
>
> Picture pedaling in thick platform shoes, not good, right? Dyna Drive was intended to eliminate
> this "problem."
>
> Time also makes a bit of a point about getting the sole of the foot to be lower with respect to
> the pedals axis, but they never went to the extreme that Shimano did.
>
> The reason for the big holes is that the pedals' bearings are inside the threaded spindle, and the
> foot platform hangs down below.
>
> This was also the principal failing of Dyna Drive, the bearings were troublesome.

shame. shimano come up with some great ideas every now & again. both these crank features seem to
have had potential, but bad execution would definitely have stopped them in their tracks, especially
in view of the huge inertia in consumer tastes. i still hanker after their 10mm drive personally.

>
> I've got a couple of sets of these squirreled away myself, I keep meaning to put 'em on a bike
> someday, only I can't bear to go back to traps & straps.
>
> Sheldon "SPDoholic" Brown

spd is /definitely/ awesome.

> +----------------------------------------+
> | Promote the institution of marriage: |
> | Make it available to all adults! |
> +----------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-
> 9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
> http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote:

> Crank breakage wasn't the problem Dyna Drive was intended to solve. Shimano believed there was a
> biomechanical advantage to getting the sole of the foot below the pedal's axis of rotation.

what about aerodynamics? think of the savings if you can lower the whole body by 5mm or so? it'd
probably be enough to allow cipo to finally compete for the GC in the tour!

fc
 
> jim beam <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>>that really is an interesting design of crank
-snip DA AX-
>>>See: http://sheldonbrown.com/shimano1982/pages/15.html

Carl Fogel wrote: -snip-> Are coarse, monstrous thread grooves less likely
> to initiate cracks? Does the huge hole spread the load out and thus avoid concentrating local
> stresses? If it worked, why'd they stop doing that?
>
> At first glance, it looks as if those skinny metal hoops at the ends of the cranks would bust if
> Chalo Colina just rested one foot on the pedal while waiting at a traffic light.
>
> What gives? (Or rather, what doesn't give, and why?)

The material outside the pedal eye is as thick as anything and the thread is much less deep (9/16x20
being standard, these were 1"x24).

That crank is not known for torn pedal eyes at all. The usual fatal complaint is a crashed pedal and
lack of spares, or desire to go clipless- the $40 adapters were a barrier to that as new cranks
seemed a better value to some.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>... Surprise at the bottom...
> Crank breakage wasn't the problem Dyna Drive was intended to solve. Shimano believed there was a
> biomechanical advantage to getting the sole of the foot below the pedal's axis of rotation.
>
> Picture pedaling in thick platform shoes, not good, right? Dyna Drive was intended to eliminate
> this "problem."
>
> Time also makes a bit of a point about getting the sole of the foot to be lower with respect to
> the pedals axis, but they never went to the extreme that Shimano did.
>
> The reason for the big holes is that the pedals' bearings are inside the threaded spindle, and the
> foot platform hangs down below.
>
> This was also the principal failing of Dyna Drive, the bearings were troublesome.
>
> I've got a couple of sets of these squirreled away myself, I keep meaning to put 'em on a bike
> someday, only I can't bear to go back to traps & straps.
>
> Sheldon "SPDoholic" Brown

How about clipless *and* super-low pedal platform? Take a look:
http://www.revolutionpedal.com/Technology/index.html better pictures at
http://www.revolutionpedal.com/Benefits/index.html

Dunno about the bearings, but these aren't vaporware. Steve's been working on these for three or
four years.

The website could sure use a tune-up, though.

Jeff
 
> Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
-snip AX-
>>The reason for the big holes is that the pedals' bearings are inside the threaded spindle, and the
>>foot platform hangs down below. This was also the principal failing of Dyna Drive, the bearings
>>were troublesome. I've got a couple of sets of these squirreled away myself, I keep meaning to put
>>'em on a bike someday, only I can't bear to go back to traps & straps.

Jeff Wills wrote:
> How about clipless *and* super-low pedal platform? Take a look:
> http://www.revolutionpedal.com/Technology/index.html better pictures at
> http://www.revolutionpedal.com/Benefits/index.html Dunno about the bearings, but these aren't
> vaporware. Steve's been working on these for three or four years.

Sort of a modern take on my HiE pedals.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 23:52:10 -0600, A Muzi <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:<[email protected]>...
>-snip AX-
>>>The reason for the big holes is that the pedals' bearings are inside the threaded spindle, and
>>>the foot platform hangs down below. This was also the principal failing of Dyna Drive, the
>>>bearings were troublesome. I've got a couple of sets of these squirreled away myself, I keep
>>>meaning to put 'em on a bike someday, only I can't bear to go back to traps & straps.
>
>Jeff Wills wrote:
>> How about clipless *and* super-low pedal platform? Take a look:
>> http://www.revolutionpedal.com/Technology/index.html better pictures at
>> http://www.revolutionpedal.com/Benefits/index.html Dunno about the bearings, but these aren't
>> vaporware. Steve's been working on these for three or four years.
>
>Sort of a modern take on my HiE pedals.

"The single bearing pedal anticipated the Shimano DD design by some years!"
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/Hi_E.htm
 
Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On 7 Feb 2004 20:19:40 -0800, [email protected] (Jeff Wills) wrote:
> >How about clipless *and* super-low pedal platform? Take a look:
> >http://www.revolutionpedal.com/Benefits/index.html
>
> I love it: :Lightest Pedal System in the World: The Revolution Pedal weighs :approximately
> 44 grams.
>
> What they don't say is: "The Revolution cleat weighs approximately 666 grams."

665 grams at the most- it's titanium. ;-)

Jeff
 
Hey, I still have a pair of those cranks and hubs as well as some Dura Ace ex rear mechs. I had to
machine a adaptor so I could use normal pedals on the cranks, as seals on the Aero pedals didn't
seal properly.

Then I turned up a twin screw on sprocket to turn the original six speed to seven.

8 years ago, while I was touring fully loaded around the Bright area, one of the cranks broke
near the 1" Pedal thread section, I guess it would happen because there was only a 6 mm wall
thickness around the thread. This made me decide to replace the other set on my racing bike,
"just in case I guess".

Cheers Carl, Melbourne AUS.

"Jeff Wills" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > I've been meaning to put up the 1982 Shimano catalogue I recently scanned, this thread gave me
> > the push to do the needed Photoshopping.
> >
> > Looks like 107 mm.
> >
> > See: http://sheldonbrown.com/shimano1982/pages/15.html
> >
> > Sheldon "Scanner" Brown
>
> Holy LSD flashback, Batman!
>
> I can recall finding a couple (that is, *2*) 11-tooth cogs for the original Dura-Ace freehubs on
> the shelf at Euro-Asia Imports. I wonder if anyone ever had the guts to run an 11 to 16 corncob
> cassette. It was certainly possible with available parts.
>
> Speaking of scanners, my head just exploded.
>
> Jeff "Boom!" Wills
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

S
Upating an older Dura Ace 8 Speed Cassette
Replies
4
Views
659
Cycling Equipment
[email protected]
D
G
FA: Older Trek OCLV w' 9spd Dura-ace
Replies
4
Views
667
Australia and New Zealand
Gemma_k
G
W
  • Locked
Older Dura-Ace crankarm dustcaps
Replies
10
Views
1K
Cycling Equipment
Whitney Moyer
W
coelcanth
Look Keo Power vs. older PowerTap P1 pedals
Replies
11
Views
58
Power meters
seim
seim
Z
Older (im guessing 90s) Specialized Hardrock Comp : Need info/Appraisal Please
Replies
7
Views
115
Bike buying advice
Jennifer Abernathy
Jennifer Abernathy
J
What kind of bike for an older person getting started?
Replies
6
Views
2K
Bike buying advice
Keith Merson
K
Novelangel
Older women on bikes
Replies
7
Views
3K
Women's Cycling
Novelangel
Novelangel
biobrandedarmorzet
Any Older Guys Remember Brc Bikes?
Replies
7
Views
8K
Mountain Bikes
ashleya
A
luism
i have 2 older bikes that need maintanance
Replies
3
Views
718
Bike Cafe
alfeng
alfeng
new_rider
Heavier, Older Riders: The Best Thing to Happen To Road Cycling?
Replies
2
Views
4K
Cycling Equipment
Froze
Froze
Top Bottom Back