older LeMond ti frame info?

[bpwell]

I'm hoping someone might know who made an older - maybe early '90's - lemond titanium road bike. Metallic blue, fade to grey paint and yellow lemond decals, horizontal rear dropouts, matching painted fork looks like a kestrel ems titanium to me. Seat stays are joined to outside of seat tube and bevelled, like many older steel frames look. Seat tube extends a little and has integrated binder. I've heard litespeed and clark kent both made them but not how to tell the difference. It looks just like a photo I saw in an old Bicycling mag a long time ago, campy record and delta brakes. Thanks for any info.

 

[DesertRider]

I own a very early Columbus SL LeMond, and I was told Trek took over the operations with Greg supervising in '92 or '93. Whether or not Trek tried to produce the ti frames themselves, I don't know.

 

[bpwell]

Originally posted by DesertRider
I own a very early Columbus SL LeMond, and I was told Trek took over the operations with Greg supervising in '92 or '93. Whether or not Trek tried to produce the ti frames themselves, I don't know.

Thanks, do you know who was doing that work before trek?

 

[DesertRider]

Originally posted by bpwell
Thanks, do you know who was doing that work before trek?

Not for sure. I've heard it was definitely a european company, possibly Carrera. I bought mine when it was two years old, but never ridden. All D/A, 7sp w/ downtube shifters.

 

[boudreaux]

Originally posted by DesertRider
I own a very early Columbus SL LeMond, and I was told Trek took over the operations with Greg supervising in '92 or '93. Whether or not Trek tried to produce the ti frames themselves, I don't know.

Trek never made a commercial Ti frame and I'm pretty sure the trek buyout of Lemond was later tan 93,not that it really matters.

 

[DesertRider]

Originally posted by boudreaux
Trek never made a commercial Ti frame and I'm pretty sure the trek buyout of Lemond was later tan 93,not that it really matters.

Could have been '94/'95. I remember taking home the first LeMond catalog, under Trek, when the names Chamberrey, Zurich and the rest were first introduced. The carbon frames were identical to Treks OC series and the Ti model had a name also. Trek may be able to say who did make it.

 

[spacer]

Originally posted by bpwell
I'm hoping someone might know who made an older - maybe early '90's - lemond titanium road bike. Metallic blue, fade to grey paint and yellow lemond decals, horizontal rear dropouts, matching painted fork looks like a kestrel ems titanium to me.

I believe the first set of ti frames sold with the Lemond decals were fab'd by the now-gone Clark Kent operation. And the older steel Lemond frames were made in Italy by the subcontractor Bilato. The carbon frames Lemond raced on were first the TVTs and then CarbonFrames (now Calfee).

 

[Ralph Ray]

The bike you are talking about is a 1992 model. I have a feature story on it in my August 1992 Winning magazine. The color choices were, a natural buffed titanium, a blue fade (the bike of Team Z) or a candy-apple red fade. It doesn't mention who built the frames. My 1991 issue of Bicycling mention in the Quick Release section that Merlin Metalworks denied Greg's request for 18 free titanium frames for his Z team. Maybe they built them in 92. Hope this helps some.

 

[Ralph Ray]

I believe Treks takeover of LeMond bikes was in 1997. Mitsubishi Rayon built the carbon frames in 94 according to my 94 LeMond catalog. I think they had trouble with the carbon frames because it copied Calfees gusset designs. Not trouble with the bikes itself, but legal trouble with copyrights. The 94 carbon bikes looks almost identical to his. The 94 catalog even features the V2 Boomerang. There's a picture of their titanium model in there also but all they say is they searched long and hard for a titanium builder whose reputation was staked to the quality rather then the volume of worked produced. It never mentions who it is. I know my first LeMond catalog that has Treks takeover is a 97 issue. I did e-mail Calfee awhile back, and he filled me in on the LeMond 94 carbon bikes.

 

[bpwell]

Originally posted by Ralph Ray
I believe Treks takeover of LeMond bikes was in 1997. Mitsubishi Rayon built the carbon frames in 94 according to my 94 LeMond catalog. I think they had trouble with the carbon frames because it copied Calfees gusset designs. Not trouble with the bikes itself, but legal trouble with copyrights. The 94 carbon bikes looks almost identical to his. The 94 catalog even features the V2 Boomerang. There's a picture of their titanium model in there also but all they say is they searched long and hard for a titanium builder whose reputation was staked to the quality rather then the volume of worked produced. It never mentions who it is. I know my first LeMond catalog that has Treks takeover is a 97 issue. I did e-mail Calfee awhile back, and he filled me in on the LeMond 94 carbon bikes.

Thanks, it sounds like there may have been many diffrent makers in that period, someone else didn't think it was a clark kent because of the seat stay join. I've never seen any clark kents, but the seat stay treatment seemed unusual enough to me that I hoped that might be enough. Unfortunately I don't have the bike with me now to double check for a serial number, but I don't remember seeing one. I'll have to try to track down an old collection of Bicyling.

 

[DesertRider]

Steve Swenson, Manager of LeMond Technical Services and Consumer Support, confirmed all early LeMond Ti frames were made by the now defunct Clark Kent. "spacer" gets the Student of the Week award!

 

[bpwell]

Originally posted by DesertRider
Steve Swenson, Manager of LeMond Technical Services and Consumer Support, confirmed all early LeMond Ti frames were made by the now defunct Clark Kent. "spacer" gets the Student of the Week award!

I guess I'll have to try to research old clark kents, I'm now curios to see what they look like, all I've ever heard about there ti frames is that many, presumably early makes, cracked. I wonder when that problem came up in relation to the lemond connection, interesting they don't mention a name in their old catalog. I still think the seat stay thing ought to be a pretty clear identifier, though I can understand how any current maker might be hesitant to claim it.

 

[weasly]

first time posting- hope this makes it through!

My heydey of racing was '88-'94 and I really liked those LeMond TI's alot. Greg actually won his major U.S. victory, the Tour Du Pont in 1992 on that bike (I think the majority of the team was riding them also). He even had a TT bike set-up as well using that frame.

Anyway, your original question was who built them (and yes, Merlin did turn him down)- I am almost certain those frames were produced by Litespeed.

Hope that sheds some light on it.

wpe

(also wanted to add that Clark Kent did the Coors Light bikes in TI, but I think that was post Greg L.)

 

[joes]

I believe the first set of ti frames sold with the Lemond decals were fab'd by the now-gone Clark Kent operation. And the older steel Lemond frames were made in Italy by the subcontractor Bilato. The carbon frames Lemond raced on were first the TVTs and then CarbonFrames (now Calfee).

Where can I find more info on the older lemond columbus steel bikes. I would appreciate anyones help! JoeS

 

[antoniomadams]

I'D BE HAPPY TO HELP YOU. MY UNCLE WAS THE OWNER OF CLARK-KENT CYCLES HERE IS DENVER. I WORKED WITH HIM FOR SEVERAL YEARS, ESPECIALLY DURING THE PARTNERSHIP WITH LEMOND. CLARK-KENT WAS THE PRODUCER OF THE LEMOND TI FRAMES. AT THAT POINT, WE EVEN PRODUCED PARTS FOR LIGHTSPEED.

I'm hoping someone might know who made an older - maybe early '90's - lemond titanium road bike. Metallic blue, fade to grey paint and yellow lemond decals, horizontal rear dropouts, matching painted fork looks like a kestrel ems titanium to me. Seat stays are joined to outside of seat tube and bevelled, like many older steel frames look. Seat tube extends a little and has integrated binder. I've heard litespeed and clark kent both made them but not how to tell the difference. It looks just like a photo I saw in an old Bicycling mag a long time ago, campy record and delta brakes. Thanks for any info.

 

[lamazion]

That frame was built by litespeed. Basic design is similar to the early litespeed Ultimate with LeMond geometry. I own this frame. It was purchased from LeMond's brother -in-law just before the company was sold to Trek. I also purchased a full C-record group that came off a team bike. This has been a great frame for many years!

BTW, the first manufacturer to build Ti frames for LeMond was Merlin. I believe these were limited to Z team bikes. My friend owns one of these.

 

[antoniomadams]

Lemond's brother in-law is incorrect. I personally worked on, detailed, and preped hundreds of the TI frames before shipment to Lemond, (I still have scars to this day on my thumbs where the polishing wheel slipped off the metal on to my skin). I even still have some of the raw silk-screen decals, (not the raised vinyl) that would be applyed to the Frames.

Question, had Lemonds brother in-law ever mention how Clark-Kent went out of business?

That frame was built by litespeed. Basic design is similar to the early litespeed Ultimate with LeMond geometry. I own this frame. It was purchased from LeMond's brother -in-law just before the company was sold to Trek. I also purchased a full C-record group that came off a team bike. This has been a great frame for many years!

BTW, the first manufacturer to build Ti frames for LeMond was Merlin. I believe these were limited to Z team bikes. My friend owns one of these.

 

[lamazion]

I'm confused? Clark Kent made Ti frames for LeMond came after the very short Merlin and ( I believe) one year Litespeed venture.

Also, I'm not sure the point you were attempting to make. The bikes we purchased I believe were left overs from the original LeMond (family owned) company. Many of these were Z team bikes built for specific riders. Mine was a production frame kept as a spare but not ridden.

Also, since I don't know LeMond's brother-in-law, I would not be able to ask him about Clark Kent. My only interactions with him were phone replies to his Velo News ad when we purchased the bikes.

There is obviously a great deal of history between LeMond bikes and Clark Kent that I am not aware of. This frame, however, to the best of my knowledge is a litespeed made LeMond.

 

[jsf]

I notice from this posting that there are quite a few people who have had personal involvement with Greg Lemonds pre-Trek bike building business, so my posting is directed to you guys.

First off, I'm from the UK and bought the bike here.

I've got a '94 Lemond GAN GLX, 50cm made from Excell GLX tubing. I love this bike, but unfrotunately although it's in immaculate condition it's time to get a new best bike.

I have been trying to find out more info about the frame so that I can have a new frame to the same geometry.

It's a VERY unusual shape, 50cm seat tube (C-C) and 53cm Top Tube (C-C), the seat tube angle seems really relaxed to, probably about 73 deg. And it is absolutely perfect for me - I'm 5'6", but have short legs and long body.

A friend told me the frame was likely to have been made for a GAN rider as the geometry is so unusual, but as we have never managed to compare it directly with another GAN frame we don't know for sure.

The frame number is 40274, it has the engraved cast brake bridge and bottom bracket shell, slightly rounded fork cast crown with an 'L' in a triangle painted white. Has the frame number and 50cm GLX stamped into the bottom bracket.

Any info that anyone has would be greatly received and photo's can be supplied if needed.

Thanks
Stew

 

[dpor]

I own this bike. I have custom version with no paint (only decals) and a gray/silver Kestrel EMS. I was the original buyer in 1991. It was made by Lemond's company that didn't last. I am trying to find out value. Any ideas? I love the bike. It's been amazing. Welds are beautiful with GL cutouts on the drop outs.