Older Mirage 8sp to 9sp?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Matt O'Toole, Apr 17, 2003.

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  1. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    Can older Campy Mirage 8sp stuff ( w/ plastic shift levers) be converted to 9sp? What's needed?

    Matt O.
     
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  2. On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:20:52 +0000, Matt O'Toole wrote:

    > Can older Campy Mirage 8sp stuff ( w/ plastic shift levers) be converted to 9sp? What's needed?

    Talk to Peter Chisholm, who posts here often. You basically need a new shift disk. I'd also replace
    the g-springs while you are in there. I did this last Fall (Record, not Mirage, but same guts), and
    it was no problem.

    IIRC the shift disk was $35 or so, and the g-springs are a couple bucks.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig... You _`\(,_ | soon find out the
    pig likes it! (_)/ (_) |
     
  3. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Can older Campy Mirage 8sp stuff ( w/ plastic shift levers) be converted to 9sp? What's needed?

    A new shift disc inside the lever, a nine speed chain and a wheel with nine cogs on it. The rest of
    the system ( rear changer, chainrings) will be compatible.

    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  4. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...

    > > Can older Campy Mirage 8sp stuff ( w/ plastic shift
    levers)
    > > be converted to 9sp? What's needed?
    >
    > A new shift disc inside the lever, a nine speed chain and
    a wheel with nine
    > cogs on it. The rest of the system ( rear changer,
    chainrings) will be
    > compatible.

    A nine speed cassette fits an 8 speed hub OK, like Shimano? Or do you need a new hub, or
    cassette body?

    Matt O.
     
  5. A Lee

    A Lee Guest

    Matt O'Toole <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > > >"Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote in message Can older Campy Mirage 8sp stuff ( w/
    > > >plastic shift evers)be converted to 9sp? What's needed?
    > >
    > > A new shift disc inside the lever, a nine speed chain and a wheel with ninecogs on it. The rest
    > > of the system ( rear changer,chainrings) will be compatible.
    >
    > A nine speed cassette fits an 8 speed hub OK, like Shimano?

    No, it doesnt.Campy 8 and 9 speed hubs are different,though the 9sp freehub bit can be bought on its
    own,to replace the 8sp one, it is not really cost effective, as it is about the same price as a new
    hub. Alan.

    --
    Change the 'minus' to 'plus' to reply by e-mail. http://www.dvatc.co.uk - Off-road Cycling in the
    North Midlands.
     
  6. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    I wrote it that way ( a wheel with nine cogs) because the Campagnolo format is either a 7/8 hub
    (old) or a 9/10 hub (new). This is a different breakdown than Shimano, where the old hubs were 6/7
    and the new ones 8/9. There are kludges, but generally you'll need a new wheel. Probably
    inadvertant, but modern nine wheels will shift in either system. That is to say, once you've changed
    the shifter and chain, anyone's nine speed wheel will shift fine in your bike (Shimano hub or
    Campagnolo hub)
    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971 "Matt O'Toole"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > > "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    >
    > > > Can older Campy Mirage 8sp stuff ( w/ plastic shift
    > levers)
    > > > be converted to 9sp? What's needed?
    > >
    > > A new shift disc inside the lever, a nine speed chain and
    > a wheel with nine
    > > cogs on it. The rest of the system ( rear changer,
    > chainrings) will be
    > > compatible.
    >
    > A nine speed cassette fits an 8 speed hub OK, like Shimano? Or do you need a new hub, or
    > cassette body?
    >
    > Matt O.
     
  7. Matt-<< Can older Campy Mirage 8sp stuff ( w/ plastic shift levers) be converted to 9sp?
    What's needed?

    Yes, shift disc EC-RE-113 and need to convert the rear hub to 9/10s with a freehub body off a 1997/8
    series hub, 9s casstte and chain. No need to change anything else, including rder pulleys.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  8. Hedberg

    Hedberg Guest

    On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 02:56:19 -0500, "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I wrote it that way ( a wheel with nine cogs) because the Campagnolo format is either a 7/8 hub
    >(old) or a 9/10 hub (new). This is a different breakdown than Shimano, where the old hubs were 6/7
    >and the new ones 8/9. There are kludges, but generally you'll need a new wheel. Probably
    >inadvertant, but modern nine wheels will shift in either system. That is to say, once you've
    >changed the shifter and chain, anyone's nine speed wheel will shift fine in your bike (Shimano hub
    >or Campagnolo hub)

    So, I have a 9 speed Campy setup from 1997 with Chorus shifters and changers and a Record 9 speed
    hub and cassette. I can substitute a recent Shimano hub (Ultegra or 105) with a Shimano 9 speed
    cassette and it will work fine? I didn't know that -- it's good news.

    Also, I have a another bike with a Campy Racing Triple changer from 1997 currently set up to operate
    on a Sachs 7 speed freewheel with Record 8 speed downtube shifters (and this works fine). Campy 9
    speed shifters will shift this derailer properly with either a Campy 9 speed cassette or a recent
    Shimano 9 speed?

    Assuming a decent 9 speed chain.

    Harold
     
  9. On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:05:45 +0000, Hedberg wrote:

    > Also, I have a another bike with a Campy Racing Triple changer from 1997 currently set up to
    > operate on a Sachs 7 speed freewheel with Record 8 speed downtube shifters (and this works fine).
    > Campy 9 speed shifters will shift this derailer properly with either a Campy 9 speed cassette or a
    > recent Shimano 9 speed?

    yes

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you _`\(,_ | killed all of us?
    From every corner of Europe, hundreds, (_)/ (_) | thousands would rise up to take our places.
    Even Nazis can't kill that fast. -- Paul Henreid (Casablanca).
     
  10. On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 06:23:29 +0000, Matt O'Toole wrote:

    > A nine speed cassette fits an 8 speed hub OK, like Shimano? Or do you need a new hub, or
    > cassette body?

    Yes, you do need a new cassette body. It may be possible to find spacers that would allow you to
    use 9 8-speed cogs, but 8-speed cogs are getting harder and harder to get, so this is not a
    viable solution.

    However, I have found 3 9/10-speed Campy hubs at swap meets for $15 apiece.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems. _`\(,_ | -- Paul Erdos
    (_)/ (_) |
     
  11. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Matt O'Toole wrote:
    > A nine speed cassette fits an 8 speed hub OK, like Shimano? Or do you need a new hub, or
    > cassette body?

    Campag 9sp Mirage/Veloce sprockets can be made to fit Campag 8sp hubs by filing the sprocket tabs.

    ~PB
     
  12. On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 00:33:26 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:

    > Matt O'Toole wrote:
    >> A nine speed cassette fits an 8 speed hub OK, like Shimano? Or do you need a new hub, or
    >> cassette body?
    >
    > Campag 9sp Mirage/Veloce sprockets can be made to fit Campag 8sp hubs by filing the sprocket tabs.

    Since the sprockets are pretty hard, that would be a challenging amount of work to save the few
    bucks needed to replace the hub or freehub body.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems. _`\(,_ | -- Paul Erdos
    (_)/ (_) |
     
  13. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    > On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 02:56:19 -0500, "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >I wrote it that way ( a wheel with nine cogs) because the Campagnolo
    format
    > >is either a 7/8 hub (old) or a 9/10 hub (new). This is a different
    breakdown
    > >than Shimano, where the old hubs were 6/7 and the new ones 8/9. There
    are
    > >kludges, but generally you'll need a new wheel. Probably inadvertant,
    but
    > >modern nine wheels will shift in either system. That is to say, once
    you've
    > >changed the shifter and chain, anyone's nine speed wheel will shift fine
    in
    > >your bike (Shimano hub or Campagnolo hub)
    >

    "Hedberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > So, I have a 9 speed Campy setup from 1997 with Chorus shifters and changers and a Record 9 speed
    > hub and cassette. I can substitute a recent Shimano hub (Ultegra or 105) with a Shimano 9 speed
    > cassette and it will work fine? I didn't know that -- it's good news.
    >
    > Also, I have a another bike with a Campy Racing Triple changer from 1997 currently set up to
    > operate on a Sachs 7 speed freewheel with Record 8 speed downtube shifters (and this works fine).
    > Campy 9 speed shifters will shift this derailer properly with either a Campy 9 speed cassette or a
    > recent Shimano 9 speed?
    >
    > Assuming a decent 9 speed chain.

    Yes a Shimano nine wheel will shift fine in your Record nine bike.

    And when you get Ergo Nine for your existing Campagnolo rear changer on your triple bike, you can
    swap your nine wheels in both bikes. Assuming, as you note, a nine speed chain.
    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  14. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    David L. Johnson wrote:

    >> Campag 9sp Mirage/Veloce sprockets can be made to fit Campag 8sp hubs by filing the
    >> sprocket tabs.
    >
    > Since the sprockets are pretty hard, that would be a challenging amount of work to save the few
    > bucks needed to replace the hub or freehub body.

    It is hard work! ...but only because it's time consuming, really. Not a lot of skill is required.
    I've only done two sprockets so far, but it works, is cheap, and finding and fitting an appropriate
    freehub body is not always easy. It's certainly preferable to replacing the whole hub or wheel.

    As well as an option for converting to 9sp, it's also a way of customising 8sp cassettes by using a
    larger bottom cog than is available with 8sp's (28t instead of 26), or using a 14t top cog (from a
    14-28 9sp - new ratio for this year).

    ~PB
     
  15. Len

    Len Guest

    "Hedberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 02:56:19 -0500, "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >I wrote it that way ( a wheel with nine cogs) because the Campagnolo
    format
    > >is either a 7/8 hub (old) or a 9/10 hub (new). This is a different
    breakdown
    > >than Shimano, where the old hubs were 6/7 and the new ones 8/9. There
    are
    > >kludges, but generally you'll need a new wheel. Probably inadvertant,
    but
    > >modern nine wheels will shift in either system. That is to say, once
    you've
    > >changed the shifter and chain, anyone's nine speed wheel will shift fine
    in
    > >your bike (Shimano hub or Campagnolo hub)
    >
    > So, I have a 9 speed Campy setup from 1997 with Chorus shifters and changers and a Record 9 speed
    > hub and cassette. I can substitute a recent Shimano hub (Ultegra or 105) with a Shimano 9 speed
    > cassette and it will work fine? I didn't know that -- it's good news.
    >
    > Also, I have a another bike with a Campy Racing Triple changer from 1997 currently set up to
    > operate on a Sachs 7 speed freewheel with Record 8 speed downtube shifters (and this works fine).
    > Campy 9 speed shifters will shift this derailer properly with either a Campy 9 speed cassette or a
    > recent Shimano 9 speed?
    >
    > Assuming a decent 9 speed chain.
    >
    > Harold

    works for me
     
  16. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    David L. Johnson wrote:

    >> Campag 9sp Mirage/Veloce sprockets can be made to fit Campag 8sp hubs by filing the
    >> sprocket tabs.
    >
    > Since the sprockets are pretty hard, that would be a challenging amount of work to save the few
    > bucks needed to replace the hub or freehub body.

    Just found out the price of replacing freehub...... from
    www.parker-international.co.uk/components.htm : "Campag freehub body plus axle to convert 8 speed to
    9/10 speed:
    42.95 [GBP]". That's more than a few bucks.

    Unfortunatley, there's not enough room on an 8sp freehub to properly accommodate a complete 9sp
    cassette (1.25mm total difference), but otherwise filing is a reasonable alternative practice, IMO.
    8 of the 9 cogs can be used. It's not /that/ challenging with a sharp coarse file. However, there
    may be some issue over the fact that less material contacts the hub (9sps use fewer but deeper tabs)
    - I don't know - but what I've done so far seems to work fine.

    ~PB
     
  17. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    > David L. Johnson wrote:
    >
    > >> Campag 9sp Mirage/Veloce sprockets can be made to fit Campag 8sp hubs by filing the sprocket
    > >> tabs.
    > >
    > > Since the sprockets are pretty hard, that would be a challenging amount of work to save the few
    > > bucks needed to replace the hub or freehub body.

    "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > It is hard work! ...but only because it's time consuming, really. Not a lot of skill is required.
    > I've only done two sprockets so far, but it works, is cheap, and finding and fitting an
    > appropriate freehub body is not always easy. It's certainly preferable to replacing the whole hub
    > or wheel.
    >
    > As well as an option for converting to 9sp, it's also a way of customising 8sp cassettes by using
    > a larger bottom cog than is available with 8sp's (28t instead of 26), or using a 14t top cog (from
    > a 14-28 9sp - new ratio for this year).

    To trim cassette splines or any other hardened steel parts, try the Nicholson Carbide Wire. It slips
    into a standard hacksaw frame and easily makes 1/8"=2mm slits in just about anything.

    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
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