Olympics - shock news from Manchester

[David Lloyd]

"dkahn400" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Manchester Evening News are outraged to learn that the cycling events
> of the 2012 Games will not be held at the Manchester Velodrome.
> Instead, a velodrome is being built in East London apparently. You
> heard it here first.
>
> <http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/
> 1006/1006855_olympic_snub_to_cycling_venue.html>
>
> --
> Dave...
>
Oh come on! Surely it is well known that the Olympics are awarded to a city
and not to a country. Also, it always has been part of the bid to build a
velodrome in London, which is why Eastway has been sacrificed. So where is
the snub or shock? This is just the usual divisive trash jounalism.

David Lloyd

 

[David Lloyd]

"Paul Boyd" <usenet.dont.work@plusnet> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> dkahn400 said the following on 14/05/2007 16:57:
>> Manchester Evening News are outraged to learn that the cycling events
>> of the 2012 Games will not be held at the Manchester Velodrome.
>> Instead, a velodrome is being built in East London apparently. You
>> heard it here first.
>
> I thought this was really old news, and that the Eastway circuit in London
> was demolished months ago specifically to make way for the Olympic
> Velodrome.
>
> References here:
> <http://www.mbuk.com/newsdetails.asp?id=539>
> <http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/web/site/BC/roa/News2005/20051007_eastway_relocation.asp>
>
> I'm sure there's loads more references out there.
>
> I think there's a ******-off feeling amongst the Eastway people, who gave
> up their circuit for the Velodrome, because the promised MTB bit has been
> shrunk down to the size of a dinner table. The ongoing saga has been
> reported in MTB mags over the last few months.
>
> --
> Paul Boyd
> http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

The pity is that they are not going to build a bigger velodrome, capable of
holding six-day meets at an economic rate.

David Lloyd

 

[Peter Clinch]

David Lloyd wrote:

> This is just the usual divisive trash jounalism.

Isn't "divisive trash journalism" a tautology? ;-/

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Phil Cook]

David Lloyd wrote:

>"Paul Boyd" <usenet.dont.work@plusnet> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> dkahn400 said the following on 14/05/2007 16:57:
>>> Manchester Evening News are outraged to learn that the cycling events
>>> of the 2012 Games will not be held at the Manchester Velodrome.

>The pity is that they are not going to build a bigger velodrome, capable of
>holding six-day meets at an economic rate.

I think the Olympic track is going to be rather more endowed with
seats than Manchester but it will still seat less than Kuipke or Ahoy.
:-(

What is needed is a /smaller/ track in a similar sized hall. Six day
tracks are generally in the region of 133m. A track of that size with
a suitable seating rig could slot into an exhibition shed somewhere.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

 

[raisethe]

On 15 May, 10:35, Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote:
>> One reason orienteers are more or less resigned to never making the
> Olympics is our sport isn't TV/spectator friendly. Hey ho, means we get
> to compete in good venues rather than have the sport mangled to fit
> someone else's idea of what's "needed".
>
> Pete.
> --
>
I've heard that elite orienteers cheat by going to controls in the
wrong order. Is this a widespread problem?

Do orienteers wear helmets to protect themselves from potentially
dangerous overhanging branches and if so, have lives been saved? 1; )

 

[Roos Eisma]

raisethe <[email protected]> writes:

>On 15 May, 10:35, Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> One reason orienteers are more or less resigned to never making the
>> Olympics is our sport isn't TV/spectator friendly. Hey ho, means we get
>> to compete in good venues rather than have the sport mangled to fit
>> someone else's idea of what's "needed".
>>
>> Pete.
>> --
>>
>I've heard that elite orienteers cheat by going to controls in the
>wrong order. Is this a widespread problem?

If they did it will have been a long time ago, before electronic punching
was introduced... you now run with a sort of key which you dip into a unit
on each control, and it registers which controls you visit in what order
and when. Downloaded into a computer at the finish.

Roos

 

[Alan Braggins]

In article <[email protected]>, Roos Eisma wrote:
>raisethe <[email protected]> writes:
>>On 15 May, 10:35, Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> One reason orienteers are more or less resigned to never making the
>>> Olympics is our sport isn't TV/spectator friendly.

>>I've heard that elite orienteers cheat by going to controls in the
>>wrong order. Is this a widespread problem?
>
>If they did it will have been a long time ago, before electronic punching
>was introduced... you now run with a sort of key which you dip into a unit
>on each control, and it registers which controls you visit in what order
>and when. Downloaded into a computer at the finish.

And before that courses where there was a serious advantage to taking
controls out of order often had manned controls, where an offical would
glance at your card to check none of the boxes from later controls had
been punched yet.

 

[Tom Crispin]

On 17 May 2007 09:21:05 -0700, raisethe <[email protected]> wrote:

>I've heard that elite orienteers cheat by going to controls in the
>wrong order. Is this a widespread problem?

Last year I set up a sort of orienteering course for Year 6 pipils in
Greenwich Park. The children had to answer questions about various
features in the park. They were provided with a map and a route plan.
I was very impressed that they made up their own routes.

 

[David Lloyd]

"Phil Cook" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> David Lloyd wrote:
>
>>"Paul Boyd" <usenet.dont.work@plusnet> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> dkahn400 said the following on 14/05/2007 16:57:
>>>> Manchester Evening News are outraged to learn that the cycling events
>>>> of the 2012 Games will not be held at the Manchester Velodrome.
>
>>The pity is that they are not going to build a bigger velodrome, capable
>>of
>>holding six-day meets at an economic rate.
>
> I think the Olympic track is going to be rather more endowed with
> seats than Manchester but it will still seat less than Kuipke or Ahoy.
> :-(
>
> What is needed is a /smaller/ track in a similar sized hall. Six day
> tracks are generally in the region of 133m. A track of that size with
> a suitable seating rig could slot into an exhibition shed somewhere.
>
Ron Webb, the track designer, has said that you couldn't fit a track into
the NEC for an economic six-day due to the lack of head room. I don't know
if this was following a detailed study, but that was some statement from
someone who should know.

David Lloyd

 

[David Lloyd]

"Peter Clinch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> David Lloyd wrote:
>
>> This is just the usual divisive trash jounalism.
>
> Isn't "divisive trash journalism" a tautology? ;-/
>
Tautology - saying the same thing twice.

I don't think so. There has been some very good journalism (whoops spotted
my type earlier). Some trash journalism has not been divisive.

When provincial rags want to boost sales it is easy just to whip up a
non-story against London. There are plenty examples of bad London
centricity, but this is not one of them.

David Lloyd

 

[David Martin]

> >I've heard that elite orienteers cheat by going to controls in the
> >wrong order. Is this a widespread problem?
>
> If they did it will have been a long time ago, before electronic punching
> was introduced... you now run with a sort of key which you dip into a unit
> on each control, and it registers which controls you visit in what order
> and when. Downloaded into a computer at the finish.

OK, it is a long time since I have done any orienteering, but I seem
to recall it being a case of getting to all the points and back to the
start in the fastest time. The order and route were left to the
individual. Otherwise it is surely just an obscure sort of cross
country race.

...d

 

[raisethe]

On 17 May, 17:56, Roos Eisma <[email protected]> wrote:
> raisethe <[email protected]> writes:
> >On 15 May, 10:35, Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> One reason orienteers are more or less resigned to never making the
> >> Olympics is our sport isn't TV/spectator friendly. Hey ho, means we get
> >> to compete in good venues rather than have the sport mangled to fit
> >> someone else's idea of what's "needed".
>
> >> Pete.
> >> --
>
> >I've heard that elite orienteers cheat by going to controls in the
> >wrong order. Is this a widespread problem?
>
> If they did it will have been a long time ago, before electronic punching
> was introduced... you now run with a sort of key which you dip into a unit
> on each control, and it registers which controls you visit in what order
> and when. Downloaded into a computer at the finish.
>
> Roos

Crikey, it has changed since I last had a go, maybe 10 years back.
That seems like a good system (until the computer goes down).

 

[Peter Clinch]

David Martin wrote:

> OK, it is a long time since I have done any orienteering, but I seem
> to recall it being a case of getting to all the points and back to the
> start in the fastest time. The order and route were left to the
> individual. Otherwise it is surely just an obscure sort of cross
> country race.

A "Score" event gives you a pile of controls that you decide which
to visit in any order. More difficult/distant ones score more
points, none are compulsory, there's a point penalty for getting
back late in points per minute.

A typical event is in a specific order, but the runner[1] has to
decide on the route. It's designed in that the route choice is
indeed a choice and requires weighing up different elements as to
the best way. Fastest time wins, but you *must* visit each control
and it *miust* be in the right order (controls are typically set to
make finding them harder or easier (depending on the course being
run) depending on the direction the runner[1] is likely to approach
from, which is known to the runner[1] and is all part of the game.

If Rachel and/or Peter are interested in maps why not bring them
along to one of Tayside Orienteers' local events? There's a short
course on most that is suitable for kids. More blurb at
http://www.computing.dundee.ac.uk/staff/dsloan/tayside_orienteers/

Pete.

[1] you don't have to run.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[raisethe]

On 17 May, 20:59, Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote:
> David Martin wrote:
>> A "Score" event gives you a pile of controls that you decide which
> to visit in any order. More difficult/distant ones score more
> points, none are compulsory, there's a point penalty for getting
> back late in points per minute.
>
> A typical event is in a specific order, but the runner[1] has to
> decide on the route. It's designed in that the route choice is
> indeed a choice and requires weighing up different elements as to
> the best way. Fastest time wins, but you *must* visit each control
> and it *miust* be in the right order (controls are typically set to
> make finding them harder or easier (depending on the course being
> run) depending on the direction the runner[1] is likely to approach
> from, which is known to the runner[1] and is all part of the game.
>> Pete.
>
> [1] you don't have to run.
> --
>


Are events still coded by colour according to the distance?

Is it still ok to just turn up at an event once every year or two to
have a bit of a run around in the woods without being a club member
etc?

I remember the meetings used to be quite informal and not at all
intimidating. I might have another go this summer.

Thanks
Ray

 

[Peter Clinch]

raisethe wrote:

> Are events still coded by colour according to the distance?

Distance /and/ technical difficulty: take your pick from the following...

White, very easy all on paths, mostly used by 6-10 year olds and
family groups. 1.0-1.5km.

Yellow, uses simple linear features (paths, walls, streams etc), mainly
under 12's and families. 1.5-2.5km.

Orange, progressing to basic use of the compass and route choice, ideal
for novice orienteers. 2.5-3.5km.

Red, similar technically to an orange course but longer, used by
beginners wanting a longer run. 3.5-7.5km.

Light Green, the technical ability requirements begin to increase,
crossing terrain using simple contours and 'point' features. Ideal for
improvers. 2.5-3.5km.

Green, technically difficult using contour features, 'point' features.
Used mostly by experienced under 18's and adults wanting short but
challenging course. 2.5-5.0km.

Blue, technically difficult but a longer and more physically demanding
course in comparison to green. The distances are more varied between
controls. 5.0-7.5km.

Brown, physically demanding and technically difficult. For experienced
adults only. 7.5-10.0km.

> Is it still ok to just turn up at an event once every year or two to
> have a bit of a run around in the woods without being a club member
> etc?

Certainly, though note that at bigger events not all courses will always
have entry on the day, so you might have a limited selection (though
this will tend to be a selection of easier things rather than only hard
things) and at small local events there may be only a few courses anyway
(but there will almost always be something straightforward)

> I remember the meetings used to be quite informal and not at all
> intimidating. I might have another go this summer.

That's been my experience. http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/ will
give details of local clubs, who will be a good source of local event
information even if you choose not to join.

Moving OT, there is, of course, MTB orienteering...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[[email protected]]

On May 18, 4:40 pm, Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote:

> Moving OT, there is, of course, MTB orienteering...
>

And even trailquesting:

http://www.trailquest.co.uk/news.php

which is broadly similar to orienteering except that controls can be
visited in any order, and there is a strict time limit (typically 5h),
so generally riders only manage a subset of them and have to plan
carefully.

I think these modifications are necessary in order to not fall foul of
laws against racing on public roads and bridleways. It ends up being
quite an intellectual as well as physical exercise.

James

 

[raisethe]

On 18 May, 08:40, Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote:
> raisethe wrote:
> > Are events still coded by colour according to the distance?
>
> Distance /and/ technical difficulty: take your pick from the following...
>
> White, very easy all on paths, mostly used by 6-10 year olds and
> family groups. 1.0-1.5km.
>
> Yellow, uses simple linear features (paths, walls, streams etc), mainly
> under 12's and families. 1.5-2.5km.
>
> Orange, progressing to basic use of the compass and route choice, ideal
> for novice orienteers. 2.5-3.5km.
>
> Red, similar technically to an orange course but longer, used by
> beginners wanting a longer run. 3.5-7.5km.
>
> Light Green, the technical ability requirements begin to increase,
> crossing terrain using simple contours and 'point' features. Ideal for
> improvers. 2.5-3.5km.
>
> Green, technically difficult using contour features, 'point' features.
> Used mostly by experienced under 18's and adults wanting short but
> challenging course. 2.5-5.0km.
>
> Blue, technically difficult but a longer and more physically demanding
> course in comparison to green. The distances are more varied between
> controls. 5.0-7.5km.
>
> Brown, physically demanding and technically difficult. For experienced
> adults only. 7.5-10.0km.
>
> > Is it still ok to just turn up at an event once every year or two to
> > have a bit of a run around in the woods without being a club member
> > etc?
>
> Certainly, though note that at bigger events not all courses will always
> have entry on the day, so you might have a limited selection (though
> this will tend to be a selection of easier things rather than only hard
> things) and at small local events there may be only a few courses anyway
> (but there will almost always be something straightforward)
>
> > I remember the meetings used to be quite informal and not at all
> > intimidating. I might have another go this summer.
>
> That's been my experience. http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/will
> give details of local clubs, who will be a good source of local event
> information even if you choose not to join.
>
> Moving OT, there is, of course, MTB orienteering...
>
> Pete.
> --
> Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
> Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Thanks for that. I think I tended to do blue courses (slowly) and the
details you describe are vaguely how I remember them. I'll give it a
go once again.

I've never heard of MTB O, but that sounds like great fun- will have
to investigate that too.

 

[raisethe]

On 18 May, 09:28, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On May 18, 4:40 pm, Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Moving OT, there is, of course, MTB orienteering...
>
> And even trailquesting:
>
> http://www.trailquest.co.uk/news.php
>
Excellent, I think I've found myself another new sport.