Originally Posted by alienator
Ally, go ahead an try to find a post wherein I stated that disk brakes are a necessity. I'll wait, but FYI, you won't find a post that says that, implies that, or even hints at that.
Yes, it's possible for an engineer to design a rim brake to maximize modulation.......for a set of specific pad properties as a function of a specific rim material and brake track treatment. Of course such a system will have sub-optimal performance with pads that don't have that same set of properties. You can of course do the same with disc brakes, and it's very likely the disc brake system will have better modulation. Certainly the disc brake system performance will be more consistent over a larger range of conditions. If you don't understand why this is, then you don't understand all the benefits of disc brakes over rim brakes.
Your inability to stay on topic doesn't help you. Certainly your need to use red herrings, like your climate change retorts, doesn't achieve anything but to make your arguments look weak.
Just another example of your inconsistency ...
What is sub-optimal?
What is optimal?
What is "likely" supposed to mean?
Where's the data?
How can you be certain without data?
Why is your flip remark that I may not understand "the benefits of disc brakes over rim brakes" supposed to be any more meaningful than my expositions & closing statements?
OH!
Those were the pronouncements of THE pseudo-intellectual Troll who knows all!
So it is said, so it is written!
All hail the Pharaoh ...
What are you
now going to pretend that your "reason" & "critical thinking" were inferring with the following, bloviating canard?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
alienator .
So, we're past the "Alfeng imagines people don't work on their own bikes." Now we're on to "Alfeng doesn't know what all goes into modulation. Rim brake tracks flex under pressure and thus impose a modulating function on braking. Rubber, cork, and other such rim brake pads compress under braking, thus imposing another modulating function on braking. Disc brakes suffer not from such things, although I imagine you will argue that discs and disc pads do compress. While they do, you'll find that any mount they compress is uber small. Feel free to consult material science books to find such numbers.
I assume from the way you talk, you've never had to brake really hard or haven't done steep mountain descents, so maybe your thoughts on brake modulation aren't very valuable. Anyone who's done hard braking or tried to go fast understands that with better modulation you can brake later and harder, meaning less time spent braking and more time spent going fast.
Of course, you completely overlook the location of disc brake rotors and rim brake tracks relative to the road, and especially the wet, the grit, and other stuff on the road. Now, let's play a little thought experiment. Which braking surface, the disc or the rim brake track, is most likely to be covered in the afore mentioned stuff?
As for motorcycle racing crashes, I'll entertain your questions when you actually know what you're talking about, old man. I'm sure you think that you've learned everything there is to know about hard braking on your Rube Goldberg machines, but there yet remains huge differences between braking on those and braking at much higher speeds on 400lb or more motorcycles. You should also poll everyone who's ever raced a motorcycle to find how many haven't crashed, senile old man.
Oh, your application of the scientific method is in error, scientifically illiterate old man. To help you, however, I've stated several times here that I do my own wrenching, befuddled old man.
What we have here is just another denial of prior statements on YOUR part when you are confronted with reality.
AND, now you are pretending that you are qualifying your statement about disc brake by saying "better modulation" when there is NO PROOF of any kind ...
Where is the proof?
Where are the numbers?
You have stated zero basis other than your
opinion.
To restate in another way:
"
How can modulation with disc brakes be better if you were unable to effectively use it which resulted in your crashing your motorcycle?"
What?
Couldn't you repeat a
known process?
If not, why not?
If modulation with your disc brakes is so much better then shouldn't you have been able to control your motorcycle?
You know, squeeze the brake lever a certain, repeatable amount to slow the bike down INSTEAD OF probably-and-presumably inadvertently locking the brakes up & skidding & crashing ...
I mean, you didn't deliberately use the added stopping power of your motorcycles disc brakes to lock up the brakes, or did you?!?
Did other people crash in the same location on the same day?
If you were not able to control your motorcycle, then how would disc brakes not be overkill on a Road bicycle which weighs 1/20th as much?
Maybe YOU need to learn how to do some calculations so that you will then know how far you can squeeze the brake lever prior to locking up the brakes on your bike when the intent was to modulate them ...
Let's see some numbers.
It will be for YOUR benefit more than our's since it is you who do not know how to effectively use modulation with a system which you claim has better modulation.
Show "us" the numbers & not just more chaff!!!
BTW. I need to reiterate that I do not dispute that disc brakes may have a benefit for SOME Mountain bike riders in some riding conditions, but disc brakes are little more than an unnecessary "pet rock" for 99.99% of Road bike riding UNLESS a person's rides has him-or-her toddling down a bike path where one will undoubtedly find a disproportionate number of bikes equipped with disc brakes because at those slow speeds the appearance is more important than the actual form-and-function.