One more success for the War on Terror (tm)

[[email protected]]

Thanks for your reasoned argument Tim.

I've just looked at the Code: Rule 50 (for cyclists): "You MUST obey
all traffic signs and traffic light signals. (Laws RTA 1988 sect 36,
TSRGD reg 10).

Now, that seems clear to me - if it says 30mph on a sign and you're
doing 25 you *could* be stopped and at least fined. I don't know what
the specific options are for bike riders but the penalties for speeding
listed in the Code are up to £1000 fine, 3-6 pts on your licence and a
discretionary ban.

It would take a pretty bored constable to stop you, I'd say.

Rog

Tim Hall wrote:
> On 1 Aug 2005 15:15:17 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >As far as I know you can be prosecuted and fined, points on your
> >driving licence etc. for speeding on your bike.
>
> Bollocks (tm)
>
> >Not sure what happens
> >if you don't have a driving licence. I can't be bothered to check the
> >back pages of my Highway Code so I'm prepared to be shown wrong.
>
> You are, as Mr. Larrington would say, this: Wrong.
>
> Tim

 

[[email protected]]

oops - should say " and you're doing 35"!

 

[Clive George]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I've just looked at the Code: Rule 50 (for cyclists): "You MUST obey
> all traffic signs and traffic light signals. (Laws RTA 1988 sect 36,
> TSRGD reg 10).

Do you stop at the 'no lorries' signs while out on a bike? Obviously not.
Therefore there are signs which don't apply to all vehicles. Speed limit
signs are in this set - they don't apply to bikes. Check the law (or check
the archives - the latter is probably easier, since IIRC the RTA isn't
available online).

> Now, that seems clear to me - if it says 30mph on a sign and you're
> doing 25 you *could* be stopped and at least fined.

Nope, even without your type

cheers,
clive

 

[dkahn400]

[email protected] wrote:
> Thanks for your reasoned argument Tim.
>
> I've just looked at the Code: Rule 50 (for cyclists): "You MUST
> obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals. (Laws RTA 1988
> sect 36,TSRGD reg 10).
>
> Now, that seems clear to me - if it says 30mph on a sign and you're
> doing 25 you *could* be stopped and at least fined. I don't know
> what the specific options are for bike riders but the penalties
> for speeding listed in the Code are up to £1000 fine, 3-6 pts on
> your licence and a discretionary ban.

Nope. You have to obey signs, but only those that apply to you. Traffic
lights, yes. Speed limit signs, no. If you exceed the posted speed
limit for motor vehicles you could potentially be charged with other
offences, but not speeding. You are simply repeating an urban legend.

--
Dave...

 

[Mark McNeill]

Response to :
> I've just looked at the Code: Rule 50 (for cyclists): "You MUST obey
> all traffic signs and traffic light signals. (Laws RTA 1988 sect 36,
> TSRGD reg 10).
>
> Now, that seems clear to me - if it says 30mph on a sign and you're
> doing 25 you *could* be stopped and at least fined.

This came up here fairly recently. IIRC, the sign may correctly be
interpreted as saying "The speed limit for motor vehicles is x"; it does
not apply to cycles, because speed limits don't apply to pedal-powered
vehicles. There are various traffic signs which don't apply to cyclists,
and speed limit signs form one class of them; therefore obeying them on a
bike is irrelevant.


--
Mark, UK

"If you give me six lines written by the most honest man, I will find
something in them to hang him."

 

[Paul - xxx]

Richard came up with the following;:
> Paul - *** wrote:
>> [email protected] came up with the following;:
>>
>>> As far as I know you can be prosecuted and fined, points on your
>>> driving licence etc. for speeding on your bike.
>>
>>
>> No you can't. Cyclists don't have to have a driving licence so can't be
>> awarded points for infringing any driving laws by adding points to one.
>
> That's not the reason. It's perfectly possible to have points on a
> non-existant licence; there's quite a few drunk/careless/dangerous
> driving/etc convictions of children and visiting furriners where this
> has happened. If and when a licence is acquired, the points appear on
> it from the word go.

But cycling cannot attract points onto a driving licence, there isn't a
category for points to be awarded against, so they cannot be awarded against
a cyclist, whatever he does on the roads.

If the cyclist commits an offence whilst driving a vehicle which does
require a driving licence, and he doesn't have a licence for it, then he can
attract points etc as you say, but NOT as a cyclist riding a cycle.

> However, I'm not aware of any cycling-related offence that ends up with
> points on one's driving licence.

As you say ...


--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

 

[Paul - xxx]

elyob came up with the following;:
> "Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> As far as I know you can be prosecuted and fined, points on your
>>> driving licence etc. for speeding on your bike. Not sure what happens
>>> if you don't have a driving licence. I can't be bothered to check the
>>> back pages of my Highway Code so I'm prepared to be shown wrong.
>>>
>>
>> Comprehensive rubbish. Outside the Royal Parks, there is no offence of
>> speeding on a bicycle. Speed limits only apply to motor vehicles.
>> Nothing you do on a bicycle can affect your driving license.
>
> However, not every police officer knows this ... and if they've had a very
> long last few shifts ...

I think they do.

It's just that some 'try it on' or think that if they try and frighten you
they'll have 'done their bit for road safety'.

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

 

[[email protected]]

So "all traffic signs" ...?

I think cyclists being above the law is an urban legend in itself. I
don't think the magistrates would be inclined to let me off having hit
and injured a child at 30 mph in a 20 mph zone when the Code says "you
must obey *all* traffic signs..." I can't really see the get-out here.
That word "all" just, well, covers it all, as far as I can see.

Before I get accused of being a troll let me say I cycle a modest 1500
miles or so each year. Sometimes (downhill, following wind etc) I
break the speed limit.

 

[Clive George]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> So "all traffic signs" ...?

_Which apply to the vehicle in question_

> I think cyclists being above the law is an urban legend in itself. I
> don't think the magistrates would be inclined to let me off having hit
> and injured a child at 30 mph in a 20 mph zone when the Code says "you
> must obey *all* traffic signs..." I can't really see the get-out here.
> That word "all" just, well, covers it all, as far as I can see.

They'd have to - it's the law. Some form of cycling without due care and
attention charge would be what is required, not speeding.

You've gone as far as you can go with your simplistic reading of the HC -
it's still wrong. You've been told by more than one person what the law is -
if you don't believe us, it's now time for you to do some more research -
I've given you two places to look.

cheers,
clive

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>,
[email protected] ('[email protected]') wrote:

> As far as I know you can be prosecuted and fined, points on your
> driving licence etc. for speeding on your bike.

Go read a bit of law, then. Only in Royal parks.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
"This young man has not the faintest idea how socialists think and does
not begin to understand the mentality of the party he has been elected
to lead. He is quite simply a liberal"
-- Ken Coates MEP (Lab) of Tony Blair

 

[David Martin]

[email protected] wrote:
> So "all traffic signs" ...?
>
> I think cyclists being above the law is an urban legend in itself. I
> don't think the magistrates would be inclined to let me off having hit
> and injured a child at 30 mph in a 20 mph zone when the Code says "you
> must obey *all* traffic signs..." I can't really see the get-out here.
> That word "all" just, well, covers it all, as far as I can see.

So you don't go past signs that say 'no motor vehicles' on your bike?

A 30 sign says 'motor vehicles may not exceed 30 miles per hour'. So a
bike doing 31mph is not contravening the sign because they are not a
motor vehicle.

There are other offences for which a cyclist can be prosecuted, but
exceeding a speed limit which only applies to motor vehicles is not one
of them.

>
> Before I get accused of being a troll let me say I cycle a modest 1500
> miles or so each year. Sometimes (downhill, following wind etc) I
> break the speed limit.

Only in a Royal park. You exceed the speed limit set for motor
vehicles. In a car you may exceed legally the speed limit set for
lorries.

...d

 

[dkahn400]

[email protected] wrote:
> So "all traffic signs" ...?
>
> I think cyclists being above the law is an urban legend in
> itself.

You are shifting your ground. No-one is suggesting that cyclists are
above the law. The simple fact is that the legislation that makes
speeding illegal specifically applies only to motor vehicles.

> I don't think the magistrates would be inclined to let me
> off having hit and injured a child at 30 mph in a 20 mph zone when
> the Code says "you must obey *all* traffic signs..." I can't
> really see the get-out here.

No, they won't "let you off". However, the one thing they won't be able
to pin on you is speeding, as there is no such offence on a bicycle.
There are other offences you could be charged with.

> That word "all" just, well, covers it all, as far as I can see.

The Highway Code does not itself define the law; it refers to the
relevant Acts. When it says "all" in this case it means all those which
apply.

> Before I get accused of being a troll let me say I cycle a modest
> 1500 miles or so each year.

Good for you.

> Sometimes (downhill, following wind etc) I break the speed limit.

No you don't. You exceed the posted limit for motor vehicles. There is
no limit for bicycles on the public highway.

--
Dave...

 

[Colin McKenzie]

Eugenio Mastroviti wrote:

> Thanks to the heightened security all over London, I've been lucky
> enough to be stopped in Finsbury Park, on the way back from work, for
> "speeding". Two officers, probably resting from a hard day chasing
> international terrorists and generally protecting the Western world,
> stopped me for cycling at more than twice the speed limit - and I was
> going uphill!
>
> Well, I felt chuffed with myself for a few seconds, until they informed
> me that the speed limit was 5 mph. I mean, what's the friggin' point? I
> WALK at over 5 mph!

This sounds like the stupid 5mph limit signs put up in Acton Park when
one path was included in a SALSA (Safe Access to Leisure Sites and
Amenities) route. I protested in vain that 15 would be sensible, 10
tolerable. I don't think they realise how much less stable a bike is
at 5 than 10.

But these signs are totally unenforceable. The park keepers can tell
you off, but that's it. They may be able to enforce a cycling ban,
though, if you annoy them enough - most parks still have 'no cycling'
byelaws in force.

Colin McKenzie

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>,
[email protected] ('[email protected]') wrote:

> Thanks for your reasoned argument Tim.
>
> I've just looked at the Code: Rule 50 (for cyclists): "You MUST obey
> all traffic signs and traffic light signals. (Laws RTA 1988 sect 36,
> TSRGD reg 10).

Wrong. The Highway Code isn't the law, and speed limit signs specifically
don't apply to pedal cycles - that /is/ the law (except in Royal Parks,
where the law is different). You can be prosecuted for 'pedalling
furiously', but not for speeding. Furthermore, I don't believe anyone
has been prosecuted for pedalling furiously for many years.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn.
;; Jim Morrison

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>,
[email protected] ('[email protected]') wrote:

> So "all traffic signs" ...?
>
> I think cyclists being above the law is an urban legend in itself.

Cyclists are not above the law. Cyclists have to obey all the laws which
apply to them as cyclists. The law of speed limits only applies
to /motor/ vehicles. Most other traffic law applies to all road users
equally, but not speed limits. Is that clear?

> I
> don't think the magistrates would be inclined to let me off having hit
> and injured a child at 30 mph in a 20 mph zone

True, but you wouldn't expect him to let you off if you were doing 10mph
in a 60mph limit. Hitting children is wrong, at whatever speed and
regardless of any speed limit.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Iraq war: it's time for regime change...
... go now, Tony, while you can still go with dignity.
[update 18 months after this .sig was written: it's still relevant]

 

[Peter Clinch]

Colin McKenzie wrote:

> But these signs are totally unenforceable. The park keepers can tell you
> off, but that's it.

c.f. "The Parkie" from Viz... ;-/

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Dave Larrington
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Adam J Edge wrote:
>
>> However, what would happen if you are flashed
>> by a GATSO, presumably they can't prosecute?
>> Anyone fancy having a go?
>
> I've passed the one at the bottom of Stamford Hill many times at V > 35
> mph, but the thing resolutely refuses to go off, chiz.

I've done it, once, and on the flat, which pleased me even more. No
follow-up, though. I've also set off one of those 'slow down' lights.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

[ This .sig intentionally left blank ]

 

[Richard Webb]

>
>I think they do.
>
>It's just that some 'try it on' or think that if they try and frighten you
>they'll have 'done their bit for road safety'.
>


I have been bothered for riding in a bus lane, right beneath the road
sign designating the lane as buses and bikes.

Pointless pointing this out, soon twigged that the said polisman was
probably a disciple of Clarkson.

Richard Webb

 

[[email protected]]

Thanks all. I shall bow to your superior wisdom.

Mind you, it's all a bit moot since it really does take a following
wind...

Stay safe.

Rog

 

[iakobski]

>> Furthermore, I don't believe anyone
has been prosecuted for pedalling furiously for many years.

Eight, to be precise:


http://www.camcycle.org.uk/newsletters/14/article14.html