Ontario Helmet Law being pushed through



B

Bill Z.

Guest
"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> writes:

> On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 02:19:17 GMT, [email protected] (Bill Z.)
> wrote in message <[email protected]>:
>
> >> I was recently visiting schools
> >> with my son who is choosing a high school. Every school we visited
> >> had posters promoting helmet use.

>
> >Posters and lions and tigers and bears, oh my. Get a grip, Guy.

>
> I have one, thanks - it provides me with the ability to appreciate the
> fatuity of the current monomaniacal focus on helmets as the be-all and
> end-all of cycle safety.


No, you need to get a grip - you are simply overreacting to absolute
trivia.

> I can provide any number of examples of helmet promotion, in a variety
> of contexts, but am having great difficulty thinking of a single
> example of any publicly funded promotion of any other cycle safety
> initiative or subject.
>
> >> Not one had a single poster promoting any other aspect of cycle
> >> safety. Do you believe that helmets are not just the single most
> >> important component of cycle safety, but so much so as to allow all
> >> others to be safely ignored? I don't think so.

>
> >Ever take a first aid course where they tell you, "first stop the
> >bleeding and keep him breathing"? It takes a few minutes at most to
> >learn how to fit and fasten a helmet, which would hopefully minimize
> >the damage if your kid crashes before learning how to ride
> >competently.

>
> You have that **** about face, as ever. First avoid the crash. Where
> is the massive campaign promoting cycle maintenance, conspicuity aids,
> correct use of lights, riding technique etc?


I'd say you've had next to zero experience with any sort of high-risk
activity and are completely clueless about how you go about protecting
your butt.

It takes less than a minute to learn how to fasten a helmet on properly.
Let's see how fast you can teach someone something meaningful about
"cycle maintenance, conspicuity aids, correct use of lights, riding
technique etc." You can put a poster anywhere. You can't realistically
schedule a class immediately, if only because the particpants may have
to bring their bikes.


> >Did it occur to you that they might teach how to cycle safely in
> >class, where more than the few seconds needed to digest a poster
> >could be applied to the subject?

>
> I suggest you devote some energy to acquiring a clue. Cycling is not
> taught in class. The only cycle training they ever get is aged ten
> (helmets mandatory), and Michael passed that course independently aged
> eight.


It has been taught in class in public schools. In our town, at one
point, we even had an on-road session for the kiddies with a certified
_Effective Cycling_ instructor.

> >Oh, I guess not. You simply react to a poster like the bull in
> >front of the red cape.

>
> Oops, invalid assumption. What a surprise.


Describing your behavior is an "invalid assumption"? If you are
going to use a term, you might want to first learn what it means. :)

Well, looks like you are still acting like a fool, Guy, so you go
back into the timeout. I'm ignoring the rest of your rants today.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
B

Bill Baka

Guest
Bill Z. wrote:
> Bill Baka <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>
>>Well,
>>This Bill thinks that those things they present in school are brain
>>dead and should be banned from little Johnnies or Susies classrom.

>
>
> Until they eliminated it due to budget contraints, our schools had
> a bike education program taught by an _Effective Cycling_ instructor
> and it included time spent actually riding. That's too bad, but
> one should really blame the "don't tax but spend like crazy"
> Republicans for the budget mess everyone is stuck with.
>

Since I am not that Bill I will now add a comment on the matter. Locally
we had the California Highway Patrol giving away helmets to all the kids
who came to the event. Lots of red official looking helmets now, but not
on kids heads. Mostly the kids grab the bike and leave the helmet. They
only wear them for the most part when I am gathering a group of kids for
a semi-organized ride and I insist on helmets. I don't personally wear
one but I do try to get the kids on track with the program. The helmet
giveaway was probably one of the best things the CHP could have done,
but the parents were not all in attendance so the helmets for minors law
gets ignored by the kids. What I have found out is that teaching the
kids safety is best done on the bikes and not in a classroom where it is
just another boring lesson to the kids.

Just for the record I did not vote for Bush #1 or #2 (the dumb son).
Bill Baka
 
B

Bill Z.

Guest
Bill Baka <[email protected]> writes:

> Bill Z. wrote:
> > Bill Baka <[email protected]> writes:
> >
> > Until they eliminated it due to budget contraints, our schools had
> > a bike education program taught by an _Effective Cycling_ instructor
> > and it included time spent actually riding. That's too bad, but
> > one should really blame the "don't tax but spend like crazy"
> > Republicans for the budget mess everyone is stuck with.
> >

> Since I am not that Bill I will now add a comment on the
> matter. Locally we had the California Highway Patrol giving away
> helmets to all the kids who came to the event. Lots of red official
> looking helmets now, but not on kids heads. ...


Gee. Maybe you should have gone to the Department of Education to
find out how to educate your kids instead of going to the CHP (whose
main job would be to arrest them. :))

> Mostly the kids grab the bike and leave the helmet. They only wear
> them for the most part when I am gathering a group of kids for a
> semi-organized ride and I insist on helmets. I don't personally wear
> one but I do try to get the kids on track with the program.


You mean you are surprised that the kids learn by imitating what you
do than what you say? :)

> What I have found out is that teaching the kids safety is best done
> on the bikes and not in a classroom where it is just another boring
> lesson to the kids.


Which is what our school district was doing until budget woes got in
the way.

> Just for the record I did not vote for Bush #1 or #2 (the dumb son).
> Bill Baka


Good, but unfortunately that doesn't solve the budget crunch. :-(

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
B

Bill Z.

Guest
Bill Baka <[email protected]> writes:

> Bill Z. wrote:
> > Bill Baka <[email protected]> writes:
> >
> >>Bill Z. wrote:
> >>
> >>>Bill Baka <[email protected]> writes:
> >>>

> >

> The Department of Education or its equivalent in this area is
> seriously lacking both in money and in competent leadership. The fact
> that the CHP initiated this was a surprise to me, but a welcome one.


You have some control over the leadership (vote any incompetents off
of the school board) but the money problem is primarily due to
Republicans pushing for tax cuts.

> > You mean you are surprised that the kids learn by imitating what you
> > do than what you say? :)

>
> They know better than to imitate me and most are afraid of some of the
> things I do (and warn them not to try it).


They may find some particular thing you do too difficult for them,
but kids do learn by imitation, and you should be well aware of that
if you are trying to teach them something.



--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
B

Bill Baka

Guest
Bill Z. wrote:
> Bill Baka <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>>Bill Z. wrote:
>>
>>>Bill Baka <[email protected]> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Bill Z. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Bill Baka <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>
>>>

>>The Department of Education or its equivalent in this area is
>>seriously lacking both in money and in competent leadership. The fact
>>that the CHP initiated this was a surprise to me, but a welcome one.

>
>
> You have some control over the leadership (vote any incompetents off
> of the school board) but the money problem is primarily due to
> Republicans pushing for tax cuts.


Small problem, incompetent voters. They only care about what it will do
to their property taxes, not their kids education.
>
>
>>>You mean you are surprised that the kids learn by imitating what you
>>>do than what you say? :)

>>
>>They know better than to imitate me and most are afraid of some of the
>>things I do (and warn them not to try it).

>
>
> They may find some particular thing you do too difficult for them,
> but kids do learn by imitation, and you should be well aware of that
> if you are trying to teach them something.
>
>
>

Only if they wanted to be serious off road riders, since that is where I
have my way with the terrain. On the road it is by the book. Going down
one side of a gully fast enough to catch air on the other side going up
is not something they want to imitate. I tend to be more of an adrenalin
junkie than my groupies of kids. They either walk the bikes or get me to
carry them. On flat dirt they do a good job of keeping up, and this is
from girls at 7 years old to the oldest sister at 17. The 13 year old
boys are the ones who burn out from trying to be hot shots from the start.

I just try to keep it interesting, not suicidal. The worst that can
happen from my riding is probably a broken arm. The worst that has
happened is one girl getting a slightly fractured wrist, and that was
from trying to Rollerblade across grass to a sidewalk. She just proved
that it is better to have me and a cell phone around to call for help.
Two days later she was roller blading again with her wrist bandaged.
I would not have let her but she is not one of my grandchildren.

I may be a crazy rider, but I am very protective of the kids, both mine
and others. The protection part of being grandpa to almost a dozen kids
I take seriously.
Bill Baka
 
B

Bill Z.

Guest
Bill Baka <[email protected]> writes:

> Bill Z. wrote:
> > You have some control over the leadership (vote any incompetents off
> > of the school board) but the money problem is primarily due to
> > Republicans pushing for tax cuts.

>
> Small problem, incompetent voters. They only care about what it will
> do to their property taxes, not their kids education.


You mean Republican voters, who are the ones primarily responsible ...

> > They may find some particular thing you do too difficult for them,
> > but kids do learn by imitation, and you should be well aware of that
> > if you are trying to teach them something.
> >

> Only if they wanted to be serious off road riders, since that is where
> I have my way with the terrain.


That's nice, but from what you wrote, I had the impression that you
didn't use a helmet and were surprised that the kids didn't use one
except when someone was actually telling them to.


--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
J

Just zis Guy, you know?

Guest
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:07:59 GMT, [email protected] (Bill Z.)
wrote in message <[email protected]>:

>No, you need to get a grip - you are simply overreacting to absolute
>trivia.


So you say. Yet, based on the false perception of the dangers of
cycling and the efficacy of helmets promoted by these zealots and
their handwringer hangers-on, several countries have passed helmet
laws which, while doing nothing to reduce head injuries, have caused
terrible harm to cycling as a hobby and as a mode of transport. And
all the while the mad helmet zealots are arrogating the cycle safety
agenda, the real issues (poor training, careless driving, clueless
cycle "farcilities") go unchallenged.

And once again you have everything ****-backwards. I work hard with
my national cyclists' organisation to promote all kinds of cycle
safety measures. It is the helmet zealots who are focused on one
thing and one thing alone - and as I have said before, I have yet to
see any rational evaluation of the relative merits of various cycle
safety measures which puts helmets anywhere other than last. I am
still waiting for any helmet zealot to provide credible data showing
that cycling is either unusually dangerous or unusually productive of
head injuries. I suspect the wait will be a long one.

>> You have that **** about face, as ever. First avoid the crash. Where
>> is the massive campaign promoting cycle maintenance, conspicuity aids,
>> correct use of lights, riding technique etc?


>I'd say you've had next to zero experience with any sort of high-risk
>activity and are completely clueless about how you go about protecting
>your butt.


And you think that use of personal protective equipment,
notwithstanding the conflicting nature of the evidence of its
efficacy, should come before management of the risk from which it
supposedly protects? I would say that your risk management expertise
is open to question.

>It takes less than a minute to learn how to fasten a helmet on properly.
>Let's see how fast you can teach someone something meaningful about
>"cycle maintenance, conspicuity aids, correct use of lights, riding
>technique etc." You can put a poster anywhere. You can't realistically
> schedule a class immediately, if only because the particpants may have
>to bring their bikes.


That is akin to saying it is fine to allow kids out in cars as soon as
they have learned to fasten a seat-belt.

>> I suggest you devote some energy to acquiring a clue. Cycling is not
>> taught in class. The only cycle training they ever get is aged ten
>> (helmets mandatory), and Michael passed that course independently aged
>> eight.


>It has been taught in class in public schools. In our town, at one
>point, we even had an on-road session for the kiddies with a certified
>_Effective Cycling_ instructor.


Once again you mistake BillWorld[tm] for the universal case.

>> Oops, invalid assumption. What a surprise.


>Describing your behavior is an "invalid assumption"?


Mis-describing it is, for sure. But then, you have gone to great
lengths to avoid finding out what I think about anything.

>Well, looks like you are still acting like a fool, Guy, so you go
>back into the timeout. I'm ignoring the rest of your rants today.


Translation: "Laa laa I'm not listening". As usual. No wonder you
never learn anything.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
 
J

Just zis Guy, you know?

Guest
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 02:19:45 GMT, [email protected] (Bill Z.)
wrote in message <[email protected]>:

>Until they eliminated it due to budget contraints, our schools had
>a bike education program taught by an _Effective Cycling_ instructor
>and it included time spent actually riding.


Ah, so even the BillWorld version of events portrayed above is no
longer current. So helmet promotion is now the sole cycle safety
input in your world as well.

Incidentally, there was a newspaper story here recently about a loudly
trumpeted "cycle safety initiative" in Cumbria. It consisted of:

- helmet lockers
- er...
- that's it.

The spokesman said that the helmet lockers would "enable children to
cycle safely". So he, at least, has fallen for the ridiculous notion
that cycle safety /is/ helmets.

Of course, personal protective equipment has nothing to do with
safety, it is an injury mitigation patch for situations where safety
cannot be worked in. Just like the CEO I used to work for who wanted
to spend massive sums automating green-state balance testing of
abrasive wheels, and was not prepared to consider the idea of a much
cheaper scheme to improve the normalising process until /after/ the
testing system was done, despite the fact that there was a good chance
the normalising scheme would render the testing completely
unnecessary.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
 
B

Bill Baka

Guest
Bill Z. wrote:
> Bill Baka <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>>Bill Z. wrote:
>>
>>>You have some control over the leadership (vote any incompetents off
>>>of the school board) but the money problem is primarily due to
>>>Republicans pushing for tax cuts.

>>
>>Small problem, incompetent voters. They only care about what it will
>>do to their property taxes, not their kids education.

>
>
> You mean Republican voters, who are the ones primarily responsible ...


Mostly. I find that people who have steady jobs tend to be Republican
and those who are out of work tend to lean Democratic. I have been out
of steady work since 11/07/01 as a side effect of Bush grounding all air
traffic, and electronics going down the tubes or being offshored. While
I do have a specialty, there are so many engineers out of work that the
job market sucks, and that is directly related to Bush. He says off
shoring helps the economy, but it sure doesn't help those whose jobs are
off shored.
>
>
>>>They may find some particular thing you do too difficult for them,
>>>but kids do learn by imitation, and you should be well aware of that
>>>if you are trying to teach them something.
>>>

>>
>>Only if they wanted to be serious off road riders, since that is where
>>I have my way with the terrain.

>
>
> That's nice, but from what you wrote, I had the impression that you
> didn't use a helmet and were surprised that the kids didn't use one
> except when someone was actually telling them to.
>
>

When they are with me I insist on them wearing helmets, period, or they
don't go. This costs about 15 minutes of them looking for their helmets
and me adjusting them since they always get someone elses helmet, but I
do make them wear one. Being kids, when they want to hop on the bike and
I am not the group leader, they often just go and don't think about the
helmet, and that is the way it works with 9 to 12 year olds. The best
kid as a 7 year old girl and she won't get anywhere near a bike without
a helmet because of me and her father rubbing it in. She talks my head
off but wears that helmet, so I am having some success. She is also the
best little trooper when it comes to difficult riding across a dirt
field or whatever. My own granddaughter (10)is the whiner when things
get hard or when I say "No helmet, no ride". I only take the kids
because there is not a single adult that will take them to explore, find
lizards, and all that kid stuff. Their parents are usually on a couch
watching some brain rotting program. I have to sneak out sometimes to go
on one of my long fast exercise rides.
Bill Baka
 
B

Bill Baka

Guest
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 02:19:45 GMT, [email protected] (Bill Z.)
> wrote in message <[email protected]>:
>
>
>>Until they eliminated it due to budget contraints, our schools had
>>a bike education program taught by an _Effective Cycling_ instructor
>>and it included time spent actually riding.

>
>
> Ah, so even the BillWorld version of events portrayed above is no
> longer current. So helmet promotion is now the sole cycle safety
> input in your world as well.


Depends which Bill. Helmets are not the absolute main concern, but they
rank in the top. Riding safely in the first place is number one.
>
> Incidentally, there was a newspaper story here recently about a loudly
> trumpeted "cycle safety initiative" in Cumbria. It consisted of:
>
> - helmet lockers
> - er...
> - that's it.
>
> The spokesman said that the helmet lockers would "enable children to
> cycle safely". So he, at least, has fallen for the ridiculous notion
> that cycle safety /is/ helmets.


They don't do a lot of good against getting flat out run over.
>
> Of course, personal protective equipment has nothing to do with
> safety, it is an injury mitigation patch for situations where safety
> cannot be worked in. Just like the CEO I used to work for who wanted
> to spend massive sums automating green-state balance testing of
> abrasive wheels, and was not prepared to consider the idea of a much
> cheaper scheme to improve the normalising process until /after/ the
> testing system was done, despite the fact that there was a good chance
> the normalising scheme would render the testing completely
> unnecessary.

Typical CEO. I have had some whose stupidity and arrogance has killed
the company.
Bill Baka
>
> Guy
 
S

Steven M. Scharf

Guest
Bill Baka wrote:

> Mostly. I find that people who have steady jobs tend to be Republican
> and those who are out of work tend to lean Democratic. I have been out
> of steady work since 11/07/01 as a side effect of Bush grounding all air
> traffic, and electronics going down the tubes or being offshored. While
> I do have a specialty, there are so many engineers out of work that the
> job market sucks, and that is directly related to Bush. He says off
> shoring helps the economy, but it sure doesn't help those whose jobs are
> off shored.


It goes beyond that as well. Under the Republicans, antitrust violations
have soared, but the governmnet has no intention of doing anything about
it. It's tough for a small company, with a better product, to compete
when the behmoth in the industry will do _anything_ to keep you out,
including paying potential customer not to use your product.
 
B

Bill Z.

Guest
Bill Baka <[email protected]> writes:

> Bill Z. wrote:
> > Bill Baka <[email protected]> writes:


> Mostly. I find that people who have steady jobs tend to be Republican
> and those who are out of work tend to lean Democratic. <snip>


<plonk> I know quite a few Democrats with 6 figure incomes.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
B

Bill Z.

Guest
"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> writes:

> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 02:19:45 GMT, [email protected] (Bill Z.)
> wrote in message <[email protected]>:
>
> >Until they eliminated it due to budget contraints, our schools had
> >a bike education program taught by an _Effective Cycling_ instructor
> >and it included time spent actually riding.

>
> Ah, so even the BillWorld version of events portrayed above is no
> longer current.


As I said, due to *budget problems* a desirable program got scaled
back. It now is handled by city employees, not an outside
contractor. The employees are not certified _Effective Cycling_
instructors. The material, however, goes well beyond "use a helmet
and praise the Lord that you didn't get in an accident."

> So helmet promotion is now the sole cycle safety
> input in your world as well.


Nope .... See above. You just made something up as usual.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
N

Norman Wilson

Guest
Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]>:
>Except that for some reason the helmet often seems to escape mention
>when the victim was wearing one. It's almost as if the reporters
>don't want to undermine people's faith in the magic foam hats...


If the helmet isn't mentioned, how do you know it was there?

This is not an aggressive question.

Norman Wilson
Toronto ON
--
To reply directly, expel `.edu'.
 
Norman Wilson wrote:
> Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]>:
> >Except that for some reason the helmet often seems to escape mention
> >when the victim was wearing one. It's almost as if the reporters
> >don't want to undermine people's faith in the magic foam hats...

>
> If the helmet isn't mentioned, how do you know it was there?
>
> This is not an aggressive question.


ISTR cases posted here where people knew the fatally injured cyclists
had worn one, but that it was not mentioned. I wonder if anyone's got
a specific citation?

In one case local to me (a double fatality, hit by a drunk driver), I
phoned the police department and asked, and was told the cyclists were
indeed wearing helmets. The newspaper did not mention the presence of
helmets. But they have mentioned the lack of helmets in other injuries
and fatalities.

In a sense, I wouldn't mind them mentioning the lack of a helmet - if
they would just be fair, and do it for _all_ accident fatalities!
 
B

Bill Z.

Guest
[email protected] writes:

> Norman Wilson wrote:
> > Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]>:
> > >Except that for some reason the helmet often seems to escape mention
> > >when the victim was wearing one. It's almost as if the reporters
> > >don't want to undermine people's faith in the magic foam hats...

> >
> > If the helmet isn't mentioned, how do you know it was there?
> >
> > This is not an aggressive question.

>
> ISTR cases posted here where people knew the fatally injured cyclists
> had worn one, but that it was not mentioned. I wonder if anyone's got
> a specific citation?


You'll also find cases where it wasn't mentioned when an unhelmeted
cyclist is killed. Hint: with who knows how many reporters out there,
some are going to mention it and some are not. If they don't know
by when they reach their deadline, what do you think they might do?
Some will say it wasn't known at the time the article was printed.
Others will say nothing about it, to save the effort of typing.


> In one case local to me (a double fatality, hit by a drunk driver), I
> phoned the police department and asked, and was told the cyclists were
> indeed wearing helmets. The newspaper did not mention the presence of
> helmets. But they have mentioned the lack of helmets in other injuries
> and fatalities.


What makes you think this information was available when the reporter
wrote the article? As usual, you don't know.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
 
B

Bill Baka

Guest
Bill Z. wrote:
> Bill Baka <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>>Bill Z. wrote:
>>
>>>Bill Baka <[email protected]> writes:

>
>
>>Mostly. I find that people who have steady jobs tend to be Republican
>>and those who are out of work tend to lean Democratic. <snip>

>
>
> <plonk> I know quite a few Democrats with 6 figure incomes.
>

I used to be one of them. 9/11 changed all that combined with the kiss
Chinas ass that seems to be Bushs agenda.
Bill Baka
 
B

Bill Baka

Guest
Bill Z. wrote:
> "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 02:19:45 GMT, [email protected] (Bill Z.)
>>wrote in message <[email protected]>:
>>
>>
>>>Until they eliminated it due to budget contraints, our schools had
>>>a bike education program taught by an _Effective Cycling_ instructor
>>>and it included time spent actually riding.

>>
>>Ah, so even the BillWorld version of events portrayed above is no
>>longer current.

>
>
> As I said, due to *budget problems* a desirable program got scaled
> back. It now is handled by city employees, not an outside
> contractor. The employees are not certified _Effective Cycling_
> instructors. The material, however, goes well beyond "use a helmet
> and praise the Lord that you didn't get in an accident."
>
>
>> So helmet promotion is now the sole cycle safety
>>input in your world as well.

>
>
> Nope .... See above. You just made something up as usual.
>

Well, since I am not the 'Bill' in question I do have something to add
about how I teach the kids to ride. We have a slow riding contest to see
who can go the slowest without falling off. It teaches balance better
than just hauling ass down the street to make a big skid. Some of the
parents of the boys are getting tired of buying new back tires. Some of
us need to do our part to promote safe and sane cycling. Skidding is not
in that category since one of the boys managed to crash doing a most
impressive skid (naturally all the girls he wanted to impress were
watching).
Bill Baka
 
B

Bill Baka

Guest
Bill Z. wrote:
> [email protected] writes:
>
>
>>Norman Wilson wrote:
>>
>>
>>ISTR cases posted here where people knew the fatally injured cyclists
>>had worn one, but that it was not mentioned. I wonder if anyone's got
>>a specific citation?

>
>
> You'll also find cases where it wasn't mentioned when an unhelmeted
> cyclist is killed. Hint: with who knows how many reporters out there,
> some are going to mention it and some are not. If they don't know
> by when they reach their deadline, what do you think they might do?
> Some will say it wasn't known at the time the article was printed.
> Others will say nothing about it, to save the effort of typing.
>
>
>
>>In one case local to me (a double fatality, hit by a drunk driver), I
>>phoned the police department and asked, and was told the cyclists were
>>indeed wearing helmets. The newspaper did not mention the presence of
>>helmets. But they have mentioned the lack of helmets in other injuries
>>and fatalities.

>
>
> What makes you think this information was available when the reporter
> wrote the article? As usual, you don't know.
>


The helmet issue does have one flaw. I hat a dog in a rainstorm in
Illinois about ten years ago. Large dog so I stopped to see and its gut
were splatted out on the road. Then some asshole honks his horn at me
for stopping to check and goes around me at about 70 in the rain.
Serious downpour with very little visibility, maybe safe to drive at 45
but not 70.

My point here is that people are no more resilient than large dogs when
it comes to a serious impact and if you get hit hard enough to spill
your guts, literally, the helmet is irrelevant.
Bill Baka
 
S

Steven M. Scharf

Guest
Bill Baka wrote:

> I used to be one of them. 9/11 changed all that combined with the kiss
> Chinas ass that seems to be Bushs agenda.


You are attributing too much of the loss of high paying jobs to China.
For example, auto exports to the U.S. from China are zero, the high to
low paying job transistion was mainly from the U.S. to Mexico (by the
big 2.5), and at the same time, there was a high to high transition from
Japan to the U.S., as the big Japanese manufacturers moved a lot of
production to the U.S.

India has claimed many of the U.S. jobs from Silicon Valley. Neither
Mexico nor India are Communist countries. Taiwan was no better than
China in terms of human rights under Chiang Kai Shek and the Kuomintang,
it's only in the last twenty years that democracy has taken hold in Taiwan.

It's also the mindset of successful U.S. companies to make massive job
cuts if profits don't meet expectations, which leaves them vulnerable
when there is an upturn and they can't meet demand.

And as pointed out earlier, the Bush/Republican policy of not pursuing
antitrust violations makes it extremely difficult for smaller companies
to ever get a toehold in certain markets.

I am still one of those Democrats the poster referred to, but maybe not
for long. It's time to retire anyway!
 

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