OP riders out of TDF!

[Ullefan]

So how does ASO determine which riders were implicated? Based on nicknames? Those nicknames are suspicions, but how can they say "brillo, that must be Basso, piti that's valverde...."? They must have more information than that. For example, Contador was implicated, that means Discovery can't take him??? But Fuentes has openly said he didn't treat him.

So i assume that ASO have a list of riders that they've determined have been treated by Fuentes, so are on the phone to teams telling them to take this or that guy out or else. But even if a rider gives DNA, how can they make a comparison to the OP blood without a case open? How would they even do it within 2 months?

There's more to come.

 

[fbircher]

So how does ASO determine which riders were implicated? Based on nicknames? Those nicknames are suspicions, but how can they say "brillo, that must be Basso, piti that's valverde...."? They must have more information than that. For example, Contador was implicated, that means Discovery can't take him??? But Fuentes has openly said he didn't treat him.

So i assume that ASO have a list of riders that they've determined have been treated by Fuentes, so are on the phone to teams telling them to take this or that guy out or else. But even if a rider gives DNA, how can they make a comparison to the OP blood without a case open? How would they even do it within 2 months?

There's more to come.

I think that some provision will ultimately be made to allow riders who want to clear their names to submit voluntary samples. Until then, it's entirely possible that some of the names on the Civil Guard's OP list are there incorrectly and that some riders who weren't actually involved with Fuentes may be unfairly excluded. That's one of the unfortunate consequences when doping is so out of control in cycling that a drug ring becomes this widespread. When there are 50 names on the list - all deduced from cryptic code names - it will be difficult for the authorities to have 100% accuracy. DNA testing is the only way to achieve 100% accuracy, which is why I think it needs to happen. The alternative is to continue with business as usual, which I don't think is an option for cycling anymore.

 

[Bro Deal]

The real question is who is happier today, Leipheimer or Vino?

 

[Leafer]

And again, I dont understand why people here target their anger on Basso/Ullrich. 99% of them are doping. .... its just arbitrary to concentrate on 2 riders in this.

Basso and Ullrich are the two biggest names to emerge from OP, the two who most benefited from cheating, and the two who potentially would most further make a mockery of the Tour and the sport (a la Landis) if allowed to ride.

Personally, I don't really care if a rider dopes to survive and keep his job and stays relatively anonymous; I do care if a rider dopes to win. That may be hypocritical, but in my view there's a world of difference between the Ivan Basso's and the Jesper Skibby's of the peloton.

 

[fbircher]

So how does ASO determine which riders were implicated? Based on nicknames? Those nicknames are suspicions, but how can they say "brillo, that must be Basso, piti that's valverde...."? They must have more information than that. For example, Contador was implicated, that means Discovery can't take him??? But Fuentes has openly said he didn't treat him.

So i assume that ASO have a list of riders that they've determined have been treated by Fuentes, so are on the phone to teams telling them to take this or that guy out or else. But even if a rider gives DNA, how can they make a comparison to the OP blood without a case open? How would they even do it within 2 months?

There's more to come.

How about this for a compromise proposal: The ASO could agree to allow all implicated riders to participate – on the condition that they provide blood samples and authorize future DNA testing at any point down the road that OP blood is made available. They would also have to agree to support future petitions from the ASO, UCI, WADA, etc., to the Civil Guard to make provisions for such testing. Any team that participates in an ASO race under this condition and has a rider who is subsequently positively matched to OP blood will have to return any prize money received plus interest, plus pay pre-defined damages to ASO for harm to its reputation. If a given team really believes their guy is clean wrt to OP allegations, they can put their money where their mouth is.

 

[Ullefan]

How about this for a compromise proposal: The ASO could agree to allow all implicated riders to participate – on the condition that they provide blood samples and authorize future DNA testing at any point down the road that OP blood is made available. They would also have to agree to support future petitions from the ASO, UCI, WADA, etc., to the Civil Guard to make provisions for such testing. Any team that participates in an ASO race under this condition and has a rider who is subsequently positively matched to OP blood will have to return any prize money received plus interest, plus pay pre-defined damages to ASO for harm to its reputation. If a given team really believes their guy is clean wrt to OP allegations, they can put their money where their mouth is.

For how long is blood going to be available since the Fuentes case has been shelved? Disposal of that blood is the only chance for the implicated. The civil guard has no interest in keeping old blood unless something occurs for them to think he violated health acts and testing resumes. Unless a case occurs, I don't think ASO would have a right to store OP blood if the civil guard sees no use for it. That would probably break some law or right. Not a bad proposal, but ASO would have to create their own league, which is where they're heading.

 

[poulidor]

OP is certainly not close in Spain. Spanish state would have done an appeal.

 

[fbircher]

For how long is blood going to be available since the Fuentes case has been shelved? Disposal of that blood is the only chance for the implicated. The civil guard has no interest in keeping old blood unless something occurs for them to think he violated health acts and testing resumes. Unless a case occurs, I don't think ASO would have a right to store OP blood if the civil guard sees no use for it. That would probably break some law or right. Not a bad proposal, but ASO would have to create their own league, which is where they're heading.

There are a number of possible ways testing could take place.

• With enough cooperation, teams and governing bodies could petition the judicial authorities in Spain in a united front to mitigate some of the damage caused by leaking the names of suspected cyclists to the media. It would only take a Spanish judge to authorize the release of a tiny fraction of the OP blood for comparison testing. In fact, a Spanish judge even initiated this idea at one point in the process, and I doubt he would have done so if it were inherently illegal. While nothing came of it, a concerted push from the cycling body collective could re-open this possibility.
• If even ONE falsely implicated rider pushed hard to clear his name, he’d have a compelling case to demand that the Spaniards cooperate in correcting the damage they caused to his reputation. Once a set of DNA markers is mapped out from the OP blood for comparison testing to this one rider, it will then be available for comparison to all subsequent cases. Literally, all it would take is for a single rider to successfully request that his DNA be compared to all the bags in Fuentes lab. At least 9 such sets of DNA markers have already been established as the result of Ullrich’s tests.
• It’s also possible for an individual or organization to create a new case by filing the same type of fraud charges against other suspects as were filed against Ullrich. As a race organizer, the ASO itself would have a very legitimate argument to claim fraud against any rider who competed in its races while doping with Fuentes. Remember, before Ullrich’s fraud case, there were people on this forum authoritatively proclaiming that NO DNA testing would ever happen under any circumstances, and subsequent events showed that things can unfold in unanticipated manners.

 

[Andrija]

Speaking about Basso, Disco, Puerto and Tour...
I can't imagine Disco riding Tour without Basso, that's (Tour) why they hired him. So, there are several possibilities in this situation. Compromise, pressure from sponsors or some other powerful subjects and one possibility, very much modern cycling alike.
Disco and Basso could actually give his DNA sample to authorities, but modified DNA. Modified exactly enough to get clear of all accusations.
Gene doping isn't new thing, but in this case and for this purpose it would be... Well, I don't have a word.
Jewel in the crown of fraud, absurd of all absurd...

 

[whiteboytrash]

Comments from Jaksche:


Does he believe that Basso will be allowed to ride the Tour de France this year? "He will definitely ride. His sponsors will make sure of that. Nike is Basso's main personal sponsor and an official partner of the Tour. Versus (an American television network that used to be called Outdoor Life network and that broadcasts the Tour de France in the US) belongs to Discovery Channel, and as far as I know, has bought the US TVrights to the Tour for the next four years. So theoretically speaking, Basso shouldn't have any problem in France."

 

[cyclingheroes]

Well actually Prudhomme is not willing (until now) to do something... and Lefevere is not willing to handle alone again...:´

http://www.cyclingheroes.info/id567.html

By the way, read also JJ's remarks..He is convinced that Basso will start (actually he already told me at the time Basso was signed why Disco could afford to do that..)

 

[Powerful Pete]

I believe that, in the end, the Puerto implicated riders will start the TdF.

There is simply not enough interest that they may be [are?] dopers. Who really cares? People want to watch good racing.

 

[guncha]

Basso with Fuentes drugs made a joke out of Giro while last year's TDF was very exciting. Let's get rid off Fuentes dopers.

 

[Andrija]

Basso with Fuentes drugs made a joke out of Giro while last year's TDF was very exciting. Let's get rid off Fuentes dopers.

No, let's give them all the same gear. They're not equal even in cheating. Better payed riders can afford better products.
All riders on same gear - that would be interesting competition.

 

[patch70]

No, let's give them all the same gear. They're not equal even in cheating. Better payed riders can afford better products.
All riders on same gear - that would be interesting competition.

Nice suggestion - if only it could be upheld! Kind of like stock car racing; give them all the same bikes too!

A cheat is a cheat and will always try to out-cheat the other cheats though. So those with the big $$$ will still find their Ferraris and Fuentes etc to give them the edge.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Maybe he's waiting for Nike to sort stuff out ? But I thought he looked "Basso" in the eyes and he knew Basso hadn't cheated.... ? ad that he would provide DNA ? The silence is deafening..
__________
Discovery Channel boss Johan Bruyneel declined to comment regarding the decision by Tour de France director Christian Prudhomme to request riders implicated in Operación Puerto not be included on teams' starting roster for the Tour de France. Specific to Discovery Channel is rider Ivan Basso who Prudhomme does not want included in his races.

However, Cyclingnews spoke with Bruyneel following Levi Leipheimer's back-to-back stage wins at the Tour de Georgia. Bruyneel said that Leipheimer was always set to be the leader at the Tour de France and Ivan Basso the leader for the Giro d'Italia, implying that the issue with Prudhomme was settled, but without answering the one question on everyone's lips: will Ivan Basso contest the Tour de France?

"Levi at the Tour has always been the plan - it's the only Grand Tour he is going to do," said Bruyneel. "[Levi] was very strong. His performance yesterday was already very impressive - with the difference between guys like Zabriskie and O'Neill. It definitely means he is on good form. He absolutely wanted to win the stage and when we came to the bottom of the climb we made sure Janez could stay with Christian [Vande Velde.] He said he was ok and we [let Levi go.]"

When asked to comment directly on Prudhomme's remarks, Bruyneel simply said: "No comment."

 

[Rolfrae]

Maybe he's waiting for Nike to sort stuff out ? But I thought he looked "Basso" in the eyes and he knew Basso hadn't cheated.... ? ad that he would provide DNA ? The silence is deafening..
__________
Discovery Channel boss Johan Bruyneel declined to comment regarding the decision by Tour de France director Christian Prudhomme to request riders implicated in Operación Puerto not be included on teams' starting roster for the Tour de France. Specific to Discovery Channel is rider Ivan Basso who Prudhomme does not want included in his races.

However, Cyclingnews spoke with Bruyneel following Levi Leipheimer's back-to-back stage wins at the Tour de Georgia. Bruyneel said that Leipheimer was always set to be the leader at the Tour de France and Ivan Basso the leader for the Giro d'Italia, implying that the issue with Prudhomme was settled, but without answering the one question on everyone's lips: will Ivan Basso contest the Tour de France?

"Levi at the Tour has always been the plan - it's the only Grand Tour he is going to do," said Bruyneel. "[Levi] was very strong. His performance yesterday was already very impressive - with the difference between guys like Zabriskie and O'Neill. It definitely means he is on good form. He absolutely wanted to win the stage and when we came to the bottom of the climb we made sure Janez could stay with Christian [Vande Velde.] He said he was ok and we [let Levi go.]"

When asked to comment directly on Prudhomme's remarks, Bruyneel simply said: "No comment."

Bruyneel has just realised that when he looked Basso in the eyes he had shades on. He is quoted today on BBC Sports' 'Oddball Sports' section as saying: "When I met Basso I thought, 'hey this guy has giant black shiny reflective eyes, he doesn't need to cheat, he's provably some kind of half human, half fly hybrid'. It's only later at the Solvang training camp when I saw him without his shades that I realised he wasn't half fly after all. But now it is obviously too late to do anything about it - and I can't look him in the eyes now because that's what his dog Birillo did and look what happened to him - vanished without a trace."

 

[cyclingheroes]

Jaksche won't ride the Tour but probebly will do the Giro, here my phone-interview with Jaksche of this afternoon:

http://www.cyclingheroes.info/id572.html

 

[whiteboytrash]

Jaksche won't ride the Tour but probebly will do the Giro, here my phone-interview with Jaksche of this afternoon:

http://www.cyclingheroes.info/id572.html

Of course he won't ride the Tour cos he's not invited cos he's a drug cheat... pure & simple... also now he rides shitty races in Italy....