Open Letter to Mike Vandeman

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by Botchka, Jul 13, 2003.

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  1. Botchka

    Botchka Guest

    Hey Mike,

    I did look through some of your 'website'. I see that it's mostly quotes that you cut and pasted
    into it with no real articles of any substance, but one thing that caught my eye was your resume.
    Under your 'favorite foods' section you list "Japanese (especially sushi)". Of course you must know
    the environmental impact that bottom trawling is having on the worlds oceans? Here's a quote from
    www.weeklyplanet.com in case you don't.

    "Words bandied about in the environmental community -- overfishing, marine meltdown, disaster --
    tend to be ignored by the general population. Fish, after all, is a renewable resource, isn't it?
    Unfortunately, fish aren't harvested like renewable crops. They're mined like coal by massive
    factory ships that prowl the seas. The world catch of fish went from 19-million tons in 1950 to
    90-million tons in 1997. The United Nations says that almost three-fourths of marine fish stocks,
    and 11 of the 15 major fishing grounds, are fully exploited, overfished or depleted. And the U.N.
    Food and Agricultural Organization says another 30-million tons are destroyed when fish caught
    "accidentally" are thrown away. According to The Audubon Society, for each pound of shrimp caught, 7
    pounds of other marine life, including sea turtles, are killed and discarded -- what the shrimpers
    call "trash fish." Long-range industrialized fishing fleets from Japan, Taiwan, Korea, Russia,
    Norway and the United States employ methods that catch the most fish, namely drift nets that are
    more than a mile long, and bottom trawling. Andrianna Natsoulas, of the Greenpeace Oceans Campaign,
    says, "Industrialized fishing from any corporation is incredibly destructive. Bottom trawling,
    dragging huge nets across the ocean floor ... it's like clear-cutting the ocean."

    So Mr Ph.D, you can crawl back under the rock from where you came and come out when you have NO
    impact on the environment, which will be never. Incidentally, I can pretty much rip apart everything
    under your "favorite foods" section if you'd like to see the impact that YOU are having on the
    environment. Of course, I haven't even begun on your "favorite restaurants" section yet.....

    Greg

    www.treelimb.org
     
    Tags:


  2. John Morgan

    John Morgan Guest

    <snip troll bait>

    tsk tsk. One of the weaker attempts I've seen at showing Mike the error of his ways. You should have
    simply emailed this to him, so that he can call you a hypocrite in private instead of public. I've
    seen some very well-written attacks on Mike, but they are summarily dismissed or completely ignored.
    If sound arguments have had no affect, how do you expect this shoddy effort to work?

    Mike Vandeman is eternal.

    Well, at least until he dies... so get used to it. =)

    -John Morgan Once you get him to "idiot filter" you, you've reached the highest rank possible in
    your quest to vindicate mountain bikers, and then you may rest in sweet sweet bliss.
     
  3. > Mike Vandeman is eternal.

    I hope not.

    > Well, at least until he dies... so get used to it. =)

    If he can bleed, he can die! And i would really like to know if someone could make him bleed?

    But again, is he worth it? Dont think so.

    Peter
     
  4. Darren S.

    Darren S. Guest

    A wise man once said "You can't reason someone out of something they didn't reason themselves into.

    D.

    "Botchka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hey Mike,
    >
    > I did look through some of your 'website'. I see that it's mostly quotes that you cut and pasted
    > into it with no real articles of any substance,
    but
    > one thing that caught my eye was your resume. Under your 'favorite foods' section you list
    > "Japanese (especially sushi)". Of course you must know
    the
    > environmental impact that bottom trawling is having on the worlds oceans? Here's a quote from
    > www.weeklyplanet.com in case you don't.
    >
    > "Words bandied about in the environmental community -- overfishing, marine meltdown, disaster --
    > tend to be ignored by the general population. Fish, after all, is a renewable resource, isn't it?
    > Unfortunately, fish aren't harvested like renewable crops. They're mined like coal by massive
    > factory ships that prowl the seas. The world catch of fish went from 19-million
    tons
    > in 1950 to 90-million tons in 1997. The United Nations says that almost three-fourths of marine
    > fish stocks, and 11 of the 15 major fishing
    grounds,
    > are fully exploited, overfished or depleted. And the U.N. Food and Agricultural Organization says
    > another 30-million tons are destroyed when fish caught "accidentally" are thrown away. According
    > to The Audubon Society, for each pound of shrimp caught, 7 pounds of other marine life, including
    > sea turtles, are killed and discarded -- what the shrimpers call "trash fish." Long-range
    > industrialized fishing fleets from Japan, Taiwan, Korea,
    Russia,
    > Norway and the United States employ methods that catch the most fish,
    namely
    > drift nets that are more than a mile long, and bottom trawling. Andrianna Natsoulas, of the
    > Greenpeace Oceans Campaign, says, "Industrialized
    fishing
    > from any corporation is incredibly destructive. Bottom trawling, dragging huge nets across the
    > ocean floor ... it's like clear-cutting the ocean."
    >
    > So Mr Ph.D, you can crawl back under the rock from where you came and come out when you have NO
    > impact on the environment, which will be never. Incidentally, I can pretty much rip apart
    > everything under your "favorite foods" section if you'd like to see the impact that YOU are having
    > on the environment. Of course, I haven't even begun on your "favorite
    restaurants"
    > section yet.....
    >
    >
    >
    > Greg
    >
    > www.treelimb.org
    >
    >

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003
     
  5. Peter H

    Peter H Guest

    Darren S. wrote:

    >A wise man once said "You can't reason someone out of something they didn't reason themselves into.
    >
    >D.
    >
    >
    >
    The difference between ignorance & stupidity? Ignorance can be reasoned with.

    Pete H

    --
    The universe is largely unexplored. NPR News item
     
  6. Who is this Mike Vandeman. and what is he doing soiling our Discussion board ?

    sounds like a Right ass clown to me.
     
  7. Laura Bush

    Laura Bush Guest

    He's just a lonely guy (I assume) looking for attention. The more attention you give him, the more
    he hangs around. Your know the type. Kind of like a stray cat.
     
  8. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    >
    >
    > Who is this Mike Vandeman. and what is he doing soiling our Discussion board ?
    >
    > sounds like a Right ass clown to me.

    He is an obsessive, monomaniacal hater of bicyclists in general and mountain bikers in particular,
    who wraps his hatred in a mantle of
    pseudo-science and rhetoric.

    Do not argue with him, it will do no good.

    His arguments are identical to what he was posting a decade ago. Every time anyone proves him wrong,
    he simply stops responding to that thread and starts a new one with the same inflammatory screeds
    that he's used before.

    Save your energy for ordering the tide not to rise, you'll have more success.

    --
    [email protected] is Joshua Putnam <http://www.phred.org/~josh/> Braze your own bicycle frames. See
    <http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html
     
  9. Taywood

    Taywood Guest

    "Darren S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > A wise man once said "You can't reason someone out of something they
    didn't
    > reason themselves into.

    Does this explain why we cant stop you guys feeding the troll Mike
     
  10. Ahhh Ok,.... I get it. I was right about the Ass clown part then.. am I allowed to say that ?
    ass clown ?

    Laura Bush <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > He's just a lonely guy (I assume) looking for attention. The more
    attention
    > you give him, the more he hangs around. Your know the type. Kind of like
    a
    > stray cat.
     
  11. On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 04:10:08 GMT, "Botchka" <[email protected]> wrote:

    .Hey Mike, . .I did look through some of your 'website'. I see that it's mostly quotes .that you cut
    and pasted into it with no real articles of any substance, but .one thing that caught my eye was
    your resume. Under your 'favorite foods' .section you list "Japanese (especially sushi)". Of course
    you must know the .environmental impact that bottom trawling is having on the worlds oceans? .Here's
    a quote from www.weeklyplanet.com in case you don't. . ."Words bandied about in the environmental
    community -- overfishing, marine .meltdown, disaster -- tend to be ignored by the general
    population. Fish, .after all, is a renewable resource, isn't it? Unfortunately, fish aren't
    .harvested like renewable crops. They're mined like coal by massive factory .ships that prowl the
    seas. The world catch of fish went from 19-million tons .in 1950 to 90-million tons in 1997. The
    United Nations says that almost .three-fourths of marine fish stocks, and 11 of the 15 major fishing
    grounds, .are fully exploited, overfished or depleted. And the U.N. Food and .Agricultural
    Organization says another 30-million tons are destroyed when .fish caught "accidentally" are thrown
    away. According to The Audubon .Society, for each pound of shrimp caught, 7 pounds of other marine
    life, .including sea turtles, are killed and discarded -- what the shrimpers call ."trash fish."
    .Long-range industrialized fishing fleets from Japan, Taiwan, Korea, Russia, .Norway and the United
    States employ methods that catch the most fish, namely .drift nets that are more than a mile long,
    and bottom trawling. Andrianna .Natsoulas, of the Greenpeace Oceans Campaign, says, "Industrialized
    fishing .from any corporation is incredibly destructive. Bottom trawling, dragging .huge nets across
    the ocean floor ... it's like clear-cutting the ocean." . .So Mr Ph.D, you can crawl back under the
    rock from where you came and come .out when you have NO impact on the environment, which will be
    never. .Incidentally, I can pretty much rip apart everything under your "favorite .foods" section if
    you'd like to see the impact that YOU are having on the .environment. Of course, I haven't even
    begun on your "favorite restaurants" .section yet..... . . . .Greg . .www.treelimb.org

    And this has exactly WHAT to do with the damage that montain biking does?
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  12. On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:02:30 +0200, "Peter Tønnesen" <[email protected]***privat.dk> wrote:

    .Path: newssvr13.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm01!newsdbm01.news.prodigy.com!newscon07.news.prodigy.com!n-
    ewsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!rip!news.webusenet.com!news.stupi.se!news.stupi.se!news.tele.-
    dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!not-for-mail .From: "Peter Tønnesen" <[email protected]***privat.dk>
    .Newsgroups: alt.mountain-bike .References: <[email protected]>
    <[email protected]> .Subject: Re: Open Letter to Mike Vandeman .Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003
    10:02:30 +0200 .X-Priority: 3 .X-MSMail-Priority: Normal .X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express
    6.00.2600.0000 .X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 .Lines: 14 .Message-ID:
    <[email protected]> .Organization: TDC Internet .NNTP-Posting-Host:
    fw1.inet.tele.dk .X-Trace: 1058169751 dtext01.news.tele.dk 83044 193.163.158.4 .X-Complaints-To:
    [email protected] .Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com alt.mountain-bike:394261 . .> Mike Vandeman is
    eternal. . .I hope not. . .> Well, at least until he dies... so get used to it. =) . .If he can
    bleed, he can die! And i would really like to know if someone .could make him bleed?

    Your threat is duly noted. Mountain bikers think VIOLENCE solves all their problems.

    .But again, is he worth it? Dont think so. . .Peter .

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  13. On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:56:12 +0100, "Taywood" <[email protected]> wrote:

    . ."Darren S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    .news:[email protected]... .> A wise man once said "You can't reason someone out
    of something they .didn't .> reason themselves into. . .Does this explain why we cant stop you guys
    feeding the troll

    Yes, of course. It's nice to know you all can't stop talking about me, even when I'm not around. :)

    .Mike

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  14. Westie

    Westie Guest

    "John Morgan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > <snip troll bait>
    >
    > tsk tsk. One of the weaker attempts I've seen at showing Mike the error
    of
    > his ways. You should have simply emailed this to him, so that he can call you a hypocrite in
    > private instead of public. I've seen some very well-written attacks on Mike, but they are
    > summarily dismissed or
    completely
    > ignored. If sound arguments have had no affect, how do you expect this shoddy effort to work?
    >
    > Mike Vandeman is eternal.
    >
    > Well, at least until he dies... so get used to it. =)
    >
    > -John Morgan Once you get him to "idiot filter" you, you've reached the highest rank possible in
    > your quest to vindicate mountain bikers, and then you may rest in sweet sweet bliss.
    >

    That's a bit harsh, isn't John? I give him points for having waded through Mike's website -
    something that I've never looked at myself. I'll have to subtract some points for going too deep and
    finding out Mikes favourite food though.
    --
    Westie
     
  15. Westie

    Westie Guest

    "Laura Bush" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > He's just a lonely guy (I assume) looking for attention. The more
    attention
    > you give him, the more he hangs around. Your know the type. Kind of like
    a
    > stray cat.

    I suppose that you could imagine that's why he does it. But then again, we'll never really know and
    he _has_ been doing it for over ten years now. I would say simple obsession is a more likely reason.
    And with a stray cat you can always put it out of your misery by getting the RSPCA - or you could
    just shoot it.
    --
    Westie
     
  16. John T.

    John T. Guest

    Hey Mike, Exactly how did you get to Yoho during that 1992 trip of yours?
     
  17. Jd

    Jd Guest

  18. On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:42:00 GMT, "John T." <[email protected]> wrote:

    .Hey Mike, .Exactly how did you get to Yoho during that 1992 trip of yours?

    Missed the point, huh?
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
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