Opinion on Marin frame sought

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by dannyfrankszzz, Aug 29, 2005.

  1. dannyfrankszzz

    dannyfrankszzz New Member

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    Further to my Marin Muirwoods frame breaking on me, I'm looking for a new bike. Its main use will be for commuting, touring and audax style rides.

    I've been on the Marin site and had a look. I've narrowed it down to 2 choices the Fairfax or the Lucas Valley. Having compared the two, the only difference is in the frame:

    Fairfax: (£489)
    7000 Series Full Triple Butted Aluminium with Edge Top Tube and Down Tube, Tri-Burner Double Butted Seat and Chainstays

    Lucas Valley: (£659)
    7005 Aluminium Full Triple Butted Edge Shaped Tubing with Carbon Seatstays and Double Butted Tri-Burner Chainstays

    The carbon seatstays are an attractive extra (make for that little bit of impact absorption on the backside) but I'm no expert.

    I also have a question mark over aluminium frames. I suppose they are lighter and stiffer and therefore faster, but is that necessarily a good thing. I've heard that in accidents, aluminium frames tend to snap leaving dangerous sharp edges as opposed to steel frames that just bend.
     
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  2. wafflycat

    wafflycat Guest

    Suggestion...

    If you are going to do longer rides, consider getting a bike with drop
    handlebars. I was a reluctant convert to drops - basically I was given a
    bike with drops... It took a little while to get used to drops but now I
    *much* prefer them - especially on longer rides as there's a greater range
    of hand positions and this aids comfort on a longer ride. I won't willingly
    go back to flat bars.

    Nothing wrong with aluminium. If it was as prone to breaking as is sometimes
    made out, it would not be used for bikes. I've ridden aluminium and it's
    fine, and quite frankly I can't tell any noticeable difference between
    aluminium and steel in terms of ride quality. The thing I do notice,
    however, is carbon front forks. On my bike with carbon forks the ride *is*
    noticeably smoother than on my steel bike with steel forks.


    Cheers, helen s
     
  3. MartinM

    MartinM Guest

    There seems to be an aversion to aluminium in AUK; most of the top end
    bespoke bikes are steel. Not sure why. But every AUK ride I have ever
    done was on an aluminium bike
     
  4. MartinM wrote:
    > There seems to be an aversion to aluminium in AUK; most of the top end
    > bespoke bikes are steel.


    I think it's because of the availability of steel frames with a range of
    braze-ons. Not so common on alu frames.
     
  5. buzz_ig

    buzz_ig Guest

    Would a carbon fork survive the rough & tumble of commuting or light
    trecking down gravel paths? I recently sat on, and really liked, the
    Marin Fairfax, but was advised that the fork would not stand much
    abuse.
     
  6. buzz_ig wrote:

    > Would a carbon fork survive the rough & tumble of commuting or light
    > trecking down gravel paths? I recently sat on, and really liked, the
    > Marin Fairfax, but was advised that the fork would not stand much
    > abuse.


    I would hope that a carbon fork is as strong as any other fork!
     
  7. buzz_ig

    buzz_ig Guest

    Well, from what I remember of my materials lectures too many years ago,
    and some word-of-mouth since, carbon fibre is 'directional', and is
    /very/ strong in the direction it is designed to be strong in, but less
    so if force is applied from an unexpected direction. Hence the
    question, whether boucing up & down curbs or over the odd tree route
    could get very expensive, very quickly.

    Mountain bikes do not have carbon forks, is this because there is no
    advantage, or because it is an actual disadvantage?
     
  8. buzz_ig wrote:

    > Mountain bikes do not have carbon forks, is this because there is no
    > advantage, or because it is an actual disadvantage?


    I'm sure I've seen cf mountain bikes.
     
  9. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Simon Bennett wrote:
    > MartinM wrote:
    >
    >>There seems to be an aversion to aluminium in AUK; most of the top end
    >>bespoke bikes are steel.

    >
    >
    > I think it's because of the availability of steel frames with a range of
    > braze-ons. Not so common on alu frames.
    >
    >


    In the only test I know on frame fatigue, which comes with Sheldon's
    moniker of approval, ali frames faired far better than steel.
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/EFBe/frame_fatigue_test.htm

    --
    Tony

    "I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
    Anon
     
  10. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    buzz_ig wrote:
    > Would a carbon fork survive the rough & tumble of commuting or light
    > trecking down gravel paths? I recently sat on, and really liked, the
    > Marin Fairfax, but was advised that the fork would not stand much
    > abuse.
    >


    Carbon fibre is fine for that. Where it is worse is if it has a big
    impact, from e.g. a crash, the strength can decrease a lot whereas steel
    or ali just dent/bend.

    --
    Tony

    "I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
    Anon
     
  11. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    buzz_ig wrote:
    > Well, from what I remember of my materials lectures too many years ago,
    > and some word-of-mouth since, carbon fibre is 'directional', and is
    > /very/ strong in the direction it is designed to be strong in, but less
    > so if force is applied from an unexpected direction. Hence the
    > question, whether boucing up & down curbs or over the odd tree route
    > could get very expensive, very quickly.
    >
    > Mountain bikes do not have carbon forks, is this because there is no
    > advantage, or because it is an actual disadvantage?
    >


    Pace forks? A few carbon fibre MTB frames and cranks around as well.
    The main issue I would have though is the effect of impact damage and
    crashes tend to be par for the course in mountain biking.

    --
    Tony

    "I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
    Anon
     
  12. Peter B

    Peter B Guest

    "buzz_ig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    > Mountain bikes do not have carbon forks, is this because there is no
    > advantage, or because it is an actual disadvantage?


    Bzzt! Wrong!

    I bought a pair of Pace RC35 carbon forks in 1993, as AFAIK Pace still make
    carbon rigid and suspension forks. Fair enough they are basically tubes
    rather than swaged and curved road bike forks but so are cast suspension mtb
    forks.
    I imagine cast mtb sus forks are cheaper if mass produced.
    --
    Pete
    http://uk.geocities.com/[email protected]/P
     
  13. Tony W

    Tony W Guest

    "MartinM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > There seems to be an aversion to aluminium in AUK; most of the top end
    > bespoke bikes are steel. Not sure why. But every AUK ride I have ever
    > done was on an aluminium bike


    Probably because steel can be worked much more easily by small scale bespoke
    frame builders who can then manufacture the frame to fit the client.

    Ali requires much more fancy heat treatment etc. which makes it fine for
    mass production.

    T
     
  14. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    wafflycat wrote:
    >
    > The thing I do notice, however, is carbon front forks. On my bike
    > with carbon forks the ride *is* noticeably smoother than on my steel
    > bike with steel forks.
    >


    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/rinard_forktest.html

    --
    Tony

    "I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
    Anon
     
  15. Tony Raven wrote:

    > In the only test I know on frame fatigue, which comes with Sheldon's
    > moniker of approval, ali frames faired far better than steel.


    Where did I say steel frames were stronger than alu? My comment was about
    braze-ons.
     
  16. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Simon Bennett wrote:
    > Tony Raven wrote:
    >
    >
    >>In the only test I know on frame fatigue, which comes with Sheldon's
    >>moniker of approval, ali frames faired far better than steel.

    >
    >
    > Where did I say steel frames were stronger than alu? My comment was about
    > braze-ons.
    >
    >


    Nowhere; I actually meant to reply to MartinM's comments in the other
    Marin frame thread that said ali frames didn't last.

    Gomenasai Bennet-san

    --
    Tony

    "I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
    Anon
     
  17. Tony Raven wrote:

    > Gomenasai Bennet-san


    Better!
     
  18. Simon Brooke

    Simon Brooke Guest

    in message <[email protected]>,
    buzz_ig ('[email protected]') wrote:

    > Would a carbon fork survive the rough & tumble of commuting or light
    > trecking down gravel paths? I recently sat on, and really liked, the
    > Marin Fairfax, but was advised that the fork would not stand much
    > abuse.


    What do you think they race the Paris-Roubaix on, these days?

    --
    [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    'You cannot put "The Internet" into the Recycle Bin.'
     
  19. Simon Brooke

    Simon Brooke Guest

    in message <[email protected]>,
    buzz_ig ('[email protected]') wrote:

    > Well, from what I remember of my materials lectures too many years ago,
    > and some word-of-mouth since, carbon fibre is 'directional', and is
    > /very/ strong in the direction it is designed to be strong in, but less
    > so if force is applied from an unexpected direction. Hence the
    > question, whether boucing up & down curbs or over the odd tree route
    > could get very expensive, very quickly.
    >
    > Mountain bikes do not have carbon forks


    Wrong.

    --
    [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; Human history becomes more and more a race between
    ;; education and catastrophe.
    H.G. Wells, "The Outline of History"
     
  20. Simon Brooke

    Simon Brooke Guest

    in message <[email protected]>, Simon Bennett
    ('[email protected]') wrote:

    > buzz_ig wrote:
    >
    >> Mountain bikes do not have carbon forks, is this because there is no
    >> advantage, or because it is an actual disadvantage?

    >
    > I'm sure I've seen cf mountain bikes.


    You have; obviously, a heavy crash will make the frame suspect, but
    that's true of most other materials mountain bike frames are made of
    these days.

    --
    [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
    ; ... of course nothing said here will be taken notice of by
    ; the W3C. The official place to be ignored is on www-style or
    ; www-html. -- George Lund
     
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