"Mike Jacoubowsky" <
[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > That's silly. There's no difference in "frame comfort", it's all in your
> head.
> > I have a Cannondale (your worst-case) and I have an old Schwinn LeTour
> (picked
> > up at a swap meet 2 years ago), there's no difference in "frame
comfort".
>
> I know it's the politically-correct thing to stay out of such discussions, but...
>
> There may not be a measurable difference in what somebody regards as "comfort" but there can be
> marked differences in "feel" between frames of different materials & construction. This difference
> in feel shows itself primarily in the way they do, or do not, carry a tune. Frames sound very
> different when riding over smooth and not-so-smooth roads, and I think
this
> psychoacoustical (is there such a word?) effect has a great deal to do
with
> how one perceives the ride.
>
> I will also maintain, based upon many tens of thousands of miles of riding experience, that I have
> never owned a more comfortable bike than my OCLV carbon Trek. It is, quite simply, a whole lot
> less "buzzy" over grainy
road
> surfaces. I don't feel nearly as fatigued on a long ride as I used to,
and
> the comparable bikes all had virtually identical geometry and tire size. Could be that the
> different wheels account for the difference, but I doubt it, since some of the wheels I've used
> over the past few years have been rather deep in cross section, which presumably adds stiffness to
> the ride (although the tire remains, obviously, the primary contributor to comfort, or lack
> thereof, in that regard).
>
> My other bikes have been steel and aluminum, and I still spend a fair
amount
> of time on a classic 1973 Cinelli (it's my "rain bike" these days), so
it's
> not as if I have nothing upon which to make comparisons.
>
> Please note, however, that the material is just one aspect of the
equation,
> and one could build a crappy bike out of carbon and a wonderful bike out
of
> steel, and vice versa.
>
> And, as always, consider everything I say to be 100% biased and suspect, since I make a living
> selling OCLV TREKs.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReaction.com
I can vouch for the bad ride of the original C'dale crit frames. I used to be OK riding one up to
about 90min, but after that, things started to hurt. I bought my first "real" bike, a PDM SLX
Concorde shortly after I bought the C-dale. First ride, no sore crotch, no sore back, same stiffness
in the frame.
I was riding my Gilmour a few weeks ago (853 steel) before I decided that it didn't fit (knees too
far behind bb). Nice "zingy" ride. Very lively feel. Bought a Bontrager Road Lite (steel) and built
it with the components off the Gilmour. Completely different feel. Not quite as lively, but smoother
overall. Could be that the Bontrager is older, who knows. Same wheels and tires on both, both pumped
up with the same Silca pump to the same red line, same roads.
My favorite-riding bike off all time was a TIG welded SL Battaglin that I picked up as an
afterthought when Perf. was blowing them out. Man, talk about all day comfort! I could sit on that
thing and ride, and ride, and... Not too great in a sprint because it was way flexy when I was
hammering on
it. I could look down at the bb when I was sprinting, and it was moving back and forth across an
arc of at least 1-2cm!
My M4 S-Works rides a little harsher than both the steel bikes, but not very badly at all.
I had a Performance Ti Mtn frame that was another noodle. Climbed like a champ because the
chainstays flexed enough to keep the rear wheel digging in even when going over bumps and roots.
When hammering on it, the bb moved around so much that the chain would rub on the f.der in
almost any gear!
I got to thinking (as I was out on a 2 hour training ride) about what makes a frame ride well. It
can't be overall stiffness. That number really doesn't tell me anything about HOW the frame reacts
to the small bumps that are constantly being transmitted to it. I'd be willing to bet that the
perception of how a frame rides is based on how it deals with the small, high frequency bumps rather
than the big hits.
I would be willing to bet that the "best riding" frames deal well with the small bumps. I was
thinking about this as I was riding over some chip and seal-ish road. A tube of steel is going to be
smaller in diameter than a tube of Ti, which is going to be smaller than a tube of AL for a given
stiffness. Right?
Conversly, a tube of steel is going to bend slightly if acted on by a small load, slightly less for
Ti, and slightly less for AL. That should be the difference in ride quality, not overall stiffness.
Now I'm no engineer, so someone else's gonna have to figure out if I'm talking out my ass on
this one, but it makes sense if you stop and think about it. Strain guages, and 3d modelling of
what happens when a frame is flexed are probably going to be required, things I don't have any
access to...
Best bet: ride steel, ride AL, ride Ti, and ride carbon. Then tell me that there's no difference in
frame feel... Someone out there has to have enough friends with one of each to be able to transfer
wheels and saddles around to be able to make the test as neutral as possible.
Mike
>
> "Peter Cole" <
[email protected]> wrote in message
>
news:TK4ca.77709$S_4.53089@rwcrnsc53...
> > "B. Sanders" <
[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
news:[email protected]...
> > > "archer" <ns_archer1960@ns_hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > >
news:[email protected]...
> > > > I know Aluminum frames have had a reputation (deserved or not) of
> being
> > > > stiff, and I'm wondering if that's still true, with the different
> alloys
> > > > they use now. My current bike is a 20+ year old steel-framed
Schwinn
> > > > LeTour (a.k.a LeTank).
> > >
> > > Aluminum has come a long way. My Klein Attitude (mountain hardtail)
> feels
> > > perfect - stiff, light; but doesn't beat me up like my old Cannondale
> used
> > > to. With aluminum, it's all about the engineering.
> >
> > That's silly. There's no difference in "frame comfort", it's all in your
> head.
> > I have a Cannondale (your worst-case) and I have an old Schwinn LeTour
> (picked
> > up at a swap meet 2 years ago), there's no difference in "frame
comfort".
> >
>