Opinions on REI brand bikes (Novara)?



D

dvt

Guest
Michael Press wrote:
> Two experienced riders, 1.72 m, 70 kg, `normal
> proportions'. Give each of them identical 54 or 55 cm
> frames, identical saddle, stem, and bars. Let them fit
> themselves to the bicycles and compare the results. Call
> this pair A1 and A2. Now let them pick saddle, stem, and
> bars for themselves. Call this pair B1 and B2.
>
> What do you think will happen? I think that A1 and A2 will
> be significantly different. I think that B1 and B2 will
> be significantly different.


Most of the time, the riders will leave the bike just as it came. They
will adjust the postion of the saddle, and maybe even adjust the
rotation of the handlebars and brake levers to suit.

Now if you further narrow down the selection of riders to the types of
people that might read r.b.tech, or even people that regularly ride more
than 50 km in a given day, you might get the answer you've chosen. But
for the vast majority of riders, the bike will stay as it came from the
shop floor until something breaks.

Maybe I need to restate your original quote, in my own words, since
there seems to be a disconnect. This discussion has very little bearing
to the original point with which I disagreed. You said "A bicycle must
be constructed as painstakingly as a good suit." That sounds like an
absolute; I think it says that all bicycles must be custom, or at least
customized. That's a pretty extreme position, and that's what prompted
my response.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu
 
D

Dave Larrington

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Michael Press ([email protected]) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Dane Buson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Dane Buson - [email protected]
> > The Official MBA Handbook on business cards:
> > Avoid overly pretentious job titles such as "Lord of the Realm,
> > Defender of the Faith, Emperor of India" or "Director of Corporate Planning."

>
> Intelligence test: which title does not fit with the other
> three? The first three are typically borne by wielders of
> real power. The fourth only succeeds in painting a
> bulls-eye on the back of the bearer.
>
> Never was there an Emperor of India.


There was and there still is. It's a curry house in Maidenhead.

Moreover, all Kings of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern
Ireland from Edward VII to George VI were Emperor of India in addition
to their day jobs.

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Jack Hackett for Pope, next time!
 
H

H M Leary

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Actually, Royal Crown did make a premium cola with pure sugar cane.
> > > It was very good. I bought a six pack of bottles from Target once.
> > > Of course Royal Crown is not really a household name.

> >
> > It was in my childhood neighborhood outside Detroit.

>
> Readily available near Chicago, too. It was my favorite as a kid. But
> Vernor's Ginger Ale wasn't available in Chicago, only at my
> grandparent's in Michigan. Great stuff!


Thanks for the memory, Tim!

Vernors is the finest! ( remembered from days in Ann Arbor ).

Hard to bring a case back east on just 2 wheels though.
24 bottles rarely survived the trip....)


HAND
 
H

H M Leary

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Dane Buson <[email protected]> wrote:

> In rec.bicycles.misc Ozark Bicycle <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > SMS wrote:
> >>
> >> Maybe they should introduce a new high end variant of Coke, that is
> >> based on purified Dasani water, and that uses cane sugar instead of corn
> >> syrup.

> >
> > Ah! Charging a premium for using cane sugar syrup. The final piece of
> > the Coke/New Coke/Coke Classic gambit pays off at long last.

>
> You think too small, it's obviously part of the international Communist
> conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
> That's why I drink only distilled water, or rain water, and only pure
> grain alcohol.


Thank you General Jack T. Ripper!

PURITY OF ESSENCE!
 
T

Tim McNamara

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:

> how was i able to sniff out your desire to try picking a fight tim?
> when you're ready to talk engineering [which you're clearly not right
> now] get back to me. otherwise, you know what you can do. byeee!


jim, jim, jim. Quell your paranoia. There's no attempt to pick a fight
here. What you posted made no sense to me and appeared to be self
contradictory, and I asked for clarification. However, to the
adversarial person everyone looks like an adversary.

Bicycle frames have no significant vertical flex, which is what would
typically be discussed in terms of ride feel. I believe you have agreed
to that in the past, which is part of what puzzled me in the context of
the post I asked about. The rear triangle is effectively a tetrahedron
and will have no useful flex. The front triangle isn't a triangle on
frames larger than about 50 cm, of course, but there is no useful
vertical flex even in large frames. I believe you've also agreed to
that in the past.

Geometry, specifically wheelbase and front and rear centers, are the
primary frame qualities that affect road feel, along with tire inflation
being probably a larger contributor. Invariably the bikes I hear of
being described as "harsh" have a short rear center and rock hard 700 x
23 tires. Material has little if anything to do with it, as comparing a
Cannondale CAAD-whatever with a Vitus 979 will show. As I recall, you
have pointed out all of those things yourself in the past.

Pretty hard to pick a fight with you when we seem to be in agreement.

You have typically been interested in lateral forces on wheels and such,
so perhaps this is what are are referring to. Bike frames do have some
lateral flex, since they are not triangulated in the direction, except
in the case of the Dursley-Pedersen and Moulton designs. Whether that
flex is significant is of some debate. If bike frames are springs and
have no damping and return all of their energy, then it follows that
lateral flex is not significant in terms of pedaling efficiency. There
is, of course, also the issue of lateral flex in shimmy.

Now, if you want to propose that lateral flex affects how a bike feels
to ride, I'd have to ponder that. I haven't noticed it myself (except
in shimmy-prone bikes), but I do know of some people who think this is
the case and they are not prone to being crazy. Some find more
laterally rigid frames better to ride, some find more flexible frames
better to ride. So, while I haven't noticed that lateral flex makes a
difference I guess that doesn't mean that there are not more sensitive
people who do.

It's too bad that you are so adversarial that you see everything as a
fight. When I disagree with you, you'll know it. I'll put it in no
uncertain terms and you won't have to sniff anything out.
 
R

RonSonic

Guest
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:41:21 -0000, Dave Larrington
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Michael Press ([email protected]) wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Dane Buson <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Dane Buson - [email protected]
>> > The Official MBA Handbook on business cards:
>> > Avoid overly pretentious job titles such as "Lord of the Realm,
>> > Defender of the Faith, Emperor of India" or "Director of Corporate Planning."

>>
>> Intelligence test: which title does not fit with the other
>> three? The first three are typically borne by wielders of
>> real power. The fourth only succeeds in painting a
>> bulls-eye on the back of the bearer.
>>
>> Never was there an Emperor of India.

>
>There was and there still is. It's a curry house in Maidenhead.
>
>Moreover, all Kings of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern
>Ireland from Edward VII to George VI were Emperor of India in addition
>to their day jobs.


Which included, IIRC, Defender of the Faith, and Lord of the Realm. None of them
achieved Director of Corporate Planning.

Ron
 
S

Sandy

Guest
Dans le message de news:[email protected],
dvt <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> Michael Press wrote:
>> Two experienced riders, 1.72 m, 70 kg, `normal
>> proportions'. Give each of them identical 54 or 55 cm
>> frames, identical saddle, stem, and bars. Let them fit
>> themselves to the bicycles and compare the results. Call
>> this pair A1 and A2. Now let them pick saddle, stem, and
>> bars for themselves. Call this pair B1 and B2.
>>
>> What do you think will happen? I think that A1 and A2 will
>> be significantly different. I think that B1 and B2 will
>> be significantly different.

>
> Most of the time, the riders will leave the bike just as it came. They
> will adjust the postion of the saddle, and maybe even adjust the
> rotation of the handlebars and brake levers to suit.
>
> Now if you further narrow down the selection of riders to the types of
> people that might read r.b.tech, or even people that regularly ride
> more than 50 km in a given day, you might get the answer you've
> chosen. But for the vast majority of riders, the bike will stay as it
> came from the shop floor until something breaks.
>
> Maybe I need to restate your original quote, in my own words, since
> there seems to be a disconnect. This discussion has very little
> bearing to the original point with which I disagreed. You said "A
> bicycle must be constructed as painstakingly as a good suit." That
> sounds like an absolute; I think it says that all bicycles must be
> custom, or at least customized. That's a pretty extreme position, and
> that's what prompted my response.


And of course, you're right. The biggest changes would be saddle choice and
pedal type, maybe bar tape and color. After that, the bikes are going to
fit each cyclist within tiny margins, unless they like riding entirely
different terrain or speed. I think Mr Press is more concerned with the
exclusivity features of saying "Mine is custom tailored" than in riding,
anyway.
--
Sandy

The above is guaranteed 100% free of sarcasm,
denigration, snotty remarks, indifference, platitudes, fuming demands that
"you do the math", conceited visions of a better world on wheels according
to [insert NAME here].
 
D

Dave Larrington

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, RonSonic
([email protected]) wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:41:21 -0000, Dave Larrington
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> >Michael Press ([email protected]) wrote:
> >> In article <[email protected]>,
> >> Dane Buson <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Dane Buson - [email protected]
> >> > The Official MBA Handbook on business cards:
> >> > Avoid overly pretentious job titles such as "Lord of the Realm,
> >> > Defender of the Faith, Emperor of India" or "Director of Corporate Planning."
> >>
> >> Intelligence test: which title does not fit with the other
> >> three? The first three are typically borne by wielders of
> >> real power. The fourth only succeeds in painting a
> >> bulls-eye on the back of the bearer.
> >>
> >> Never was there an Emperor of India.

> >
> >There was and there still is. It's a curry house in Maidenhead.
> >
> >Moreover, all Kings of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern
> >Ireland from Edward VII to George VI were Emperor of India in addition
> >to their day jobs.

>
> Which included, IIRC, Defender of the Faith, and Lord of the Realm. None of them
> achieved Director of Corporate Planning.


The reigning monarch is indeed the Defender of the Faith, but these days
anyone can become a Peer of the Realm by "lending" the Labour Party half
a million quid...

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
The entire population of Uxbridge has no idea that it actually doesn't
exist.
 
M

Michael Press

Guest
In article
<[email protected]>,
Dave Larrington <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Michael Press ([email protected]) wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Dane Buson <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Dane Buson - [email protected]
> > > The Official MBA Handbook on business cards:
> > > Avoid overly pretentious job titles such as "Lord of the Realm,
> > > Defender of the Faith, Emperor of India" or "Director of Corporate Planning."

> >
> > Intelligence test: which title does not fit with the other
> > three? The first three are typically borne by wielders of
> > real power. The fourth only succeeds in painting a
> > bulls-eye on the back of the bearer.
> >
> > Never was there an Emperor of India.

>
> There was and there still is. It's a curry house in Maidenhead.
>
> Moreover, all Kings of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern
> Ireland from Edward VII to George VI were Emperor of India in addition
> to their day jobs.


So it is. Thanks.

--
Michael Press
 
S

SMS

Guest
A Muzi wrote:

> That would be either Mexican CocaCola or the seasonal Kosher CocaCola.
> Both cost more and are hard to find.


I ate over at the Google cafeteria a few weeks ago, and they had bottles
of Mexican Coke in a refrigerator (all free of course). But the label on
it says that it's either sugar or corn syrup. There was some big to-do
recently between Mexico and the U.S. over Mexico's tariff on corn syrup.

The kosher-for-Passover Coke is only sold around NYC, AFAIK. And the
sugar based Cokes don't use the highly purified water used in Dasani.
 
M

Michael Press

Guest
In article
<[email protected]>,
Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > how was i able to sniff out your desire to try picking a fight tim?
> > when you're ready to talk engineering [which you're clearly not right
> > now] get back to me. otherwise, you know what you can do. byeee!

>
> jim, jim, jim. Quell your paranoia. There's no attempt to pick a fight
> here. What you posted made no sense to me and appeared to be self
> contradictory, and I asked for clarification. However, to the
> adversarial person everyone looks like an adversary.
>
> Bicycle frames have no significant vertical flex, which is what would
> typically be discussed in terms of ride feel.


Actually they can. A steel fork with thinly tapered
blades, and small radius of curvature to provide fork
offset will visibly flex over road irregularities. This is
sometimes overlooked, and why straight blade forks look
odd to a few of us.

> I believe you have agreed
> to that in the past, which is part of what puzzled me in the context of
> the post I asked about. The rear triangle is effectively a tetrahedron
> and will have no useful flex. The front triangle isn't a triangle on
> frames larger than about 50 cm, of course, but there is no useful
> vertical flex even in large frames. I believe you've also agreed to
> that in the past.


Because the head tube must maintain the head set bearing
races parallel to one another; and when the joints of the
top tube and down tube to the head tube are strong enough;
then the front quadrilateral is structurally a triangle

[...]

--
Michael Press
 
M

Michael Press

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
"Sandy" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Dans le message de news:[email protected],
> dvt <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> > Michael Press wrote:
> >> Two experienced riders, 1.72 m, 70 kg, `normal
> >> proportions'. Give each of them identical 54 or 55 cm
> >> frames, identical saddle, stem, and bars. Let them fit
> >> themselves to the bicycles and compare the results. Call
> >> this pair A1 and A2. Now let them pick saddle, stem, and
> >> bars for themselves. Call this pair B1 and B2.
> >>
> >> What do you think will happen? I think that A1 and A2 will
> >> be significantly different. I think that B1 and B2 will
> >> be significantly different.

> >
> > Most of the time, the riders will leave the bike just as it came. They
> > will adjust the postion of the saddle, and maybe even adjust the
> > rotation of the handlebars and brake levers to suit.
> >
> > Now if you further narrow down the selection of riders to the types of
> > people that might read r.b.tech, or even people that regularly ride
> > more than 50 km in a given day, you might get the answer you've
> > chosen. But for the vast majority of riders, the bike will stay as it
> > came from the shop floor until something breaks.
> >
> > Maybe I need to restate your original quote, in my own words, since
> > there seems to be a disconnect. This discussion has very little
> > bearing to the original point with which I disagreed. You said "A
> > bicycle must be constructed as painstakingly as a good suit." That
> > sounds like an absolute; I think it says that all bicycles must be
> > custom, or at least customized. That's a pretty extreme position, and
> > that's what prompted my response.

>
> And of course, you're right. The biggest changes would be saddle choice and
> pedal type, maybe bar tape and color. After that, the bikes are going to
> fit each cyclist within tiny margins, unless they like riding entirely
> different terrain or speed. I think Mr Press is more concerned with the
> exclusivity features of saying "Mine is custom tailored" than in riding,
> anyway.


How do you know that I have a custom built frame?

--
Michael Press
 
S

Sandy

Guest
Dans le message de
news:[email protected],
Michael Press <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Sandy" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Dans le message de news:[email protected],
>> dvt <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
>>> Michael Press wrote:
>>>> Two experienced riders, 1.72 m, 70 kg, `normal
>>>> proportions'. Give each of them identical 54 or 55 cm
>>>> frames, identical saddle, stem, and bars. Let them fit
>>>> themselves to the bicycles and compare the results. Call
>>>> this pair A1 and A2. Now let them pick saddle, stem, and
>>>> bars for themselves. Call this pair B1 and B2.
>>>>
>>>> What do you think will happen? I think that A1 and A2 will
>>>> be significantly different. I think that B1 and B2 will
>>>> be significantly different.
>>>
>>> Most of the time, the riders will leave the bike just as it came.
>>> They will adjust the postion of the saddle, and maybe even adjust
>>> the rotation of the handlebars and brake levers to suit.
>>>
>>> Now if you further narrow down the selection of riders to the types
>>> of people that might read r.b.tech, or even people that regularly
>>> ride more than 50 km in a given day, you might get the answer you've
>>> chosen. But for the vast majority of riders, the bike will stay as
>>> it came from the shop floor until something breaks.
>>>
>>> Maybe I need to restate your original quote, in my own words, since
>>> there seems to be a disconnect. This discussion has very little
>>> bearing to the original point with which I disagreed. You said "A
>>> bicycle must be constructed as painstakingly as a good suit." That
>>> sounds like an absolute; I think it says that all bicycles must be
>>> custom, or at least customized. That's a pretty extreme position,
>>> and that's what prompted my response.

>>
>> And of course, you're right. The biggest changes would be saddle
>> choice and pedal type, maybe bar tape and color. After that, the
>> bikes are going to fit each cyclist within tiny margins, unless they
>> like riding entirely different terrain or speed. I think Mr Press
>> is more concerned with the exclusivity features of saying "Mine is
>> custom tailored" than in riding, anyway.

>
> How do you know that I have a custom built frame?


I didn't suggest that. I suggested you have a custom-built favorite mirror.
 
M

Michael Press

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
"Sandy" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Dans le message de
> news:[email protected],
> Michael Press <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Sandy" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Dans le message de news:[email protected],
> >> dvt <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> >>> Michael Press wrote:
> >>>> Two experienced riders, 1.72 m, 70 kg, `normal
> >>>> proportions'. Give each of them identical 54 or 55 cm
> >>>> frames, identical saddle, stem, and bars. Let them fit
> >>>> themselves to the bicycles and compare the results. Call
> >>>> this pair A1 and A2. Now let them pick saddle, stem, and
> >>>> bars for themselves. Call this pair B1 and B2.
> >>>>
> >>>> What do you think will happen? I think that A1 and A2 will
> >>>> be significantly different. I think that B1 and B2 will
> >>>> be significantly different.
> >>>
> >>> Most of the time, the riders will leave the bike just as it came.
> >>> They will adjust the postion of the saddle, and maybe even adjust
> >>> the rotation of the handlebars and brake levers to suit.
> >>>
> >>> Now if you further narrow down the selection of riders to the types
> >>> of people that might read r.b.tech, or even people that regularly
> >>> ride more than 50 km in a given day, you might get the answer you've
> >>> chosen. But for the vast majority of riders, the bike will stay as
> >>> it came from the shop floor until something breaks.
> >>>
> >>> Maybe I need to restate your original quote, in my own words, since
> >>> there seems to be a disconnect. This discussion has very little
> >>> bearing to the original point with which I disagreed. You said "A
> >>> bicycle must be constructed as painstakingly as a good suit." That
> >>> sounds like an absolute; I think it says that all bicycles must be
> >>> custom, or at least customized. That's a pretty extreme position,
> >>> and that's what prompted my response.
> >>
> >> And of course, you're right. The biggest changes would be saddle
> >> choice and pedal type, maybe bar tape and color. After that, the
> >> bikes are going to fit each cyclist within tiny margins, unless they
> >> like riding entirely different terrain or speed. I think Mr Press
> >> is more concerned with the exclusivity features of saying "Mine is
> >> custom tailored" than in riding, anyway.

> >
> > How do you know that I have a custom built frame?

>
> I didn't suggest that. I suggested you have a custom-built favorite mirror.


Yes, you did suggest it.

--
Michael Press
 
C

catzz66

Guest
Paul Cassel wrote:
>
> No LBS does since it's REI's house brand. As far as Bush, I think the
> insertion of any politics into a non-political ng a bad thing. I'm
> disappointed that 41 had to start this.
>
> -paul


When a thread turns to politics is when I delete it. If I wanted to
argue politics, I would just call up my father.
 
D

Dane Buson

Guest
In rec.bicycles.misc Ozark Bicycle <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Dane Buson wrote:
>> In rec.bicycles.misc Ozark Bicycle <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Ah! Charging a premium for using cane sugar syrup. The final piece of
>> > the Coke/New Coke/Coke Classic gambit pays off at long last.

>>
>> You think too small, it's obviously part of the international Communist
>> conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
>> That's why I drink only distilled water, or rain water, and only pure
>> grain alcohol.

>
> But, do you deny women your essence?


Sometimes I have felt a profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness.
Luckily I was able to interpret these feelings correctly: loss of essence. I
can assure you it has not recurred, Ozark.

--
Dane Buson - [email protected]
"Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but
that's not why we're doing it." -- Richard Feynman
 
O

Ozark Bicycle

Guest
Dane Buson wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc Ozark Bicycle <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Dane Buson wrote:
> >> In rec.bicycles.misc Ozark Bicycle <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Ah! Charging a premium for using cane sugar syrup. The final piece of
> >> > the Coke/New Coke/Coke Classic gambit pays off at long last.
> >>
> >> You think too small, it's obviously part of the international Communist
> >> conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
> >> That's why I drink only distilled water, or rain water, and only pure
> >> grain alcohol.

> >
> > But, do you deny women your essence?

>
> Sometimes I have felt a profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness.
> Luckily I was able to interpret these feelings correctly: loss of essence. I
> can assure you it has not recurred, Ozark.
>
>


Did you ever watch "Fail Safe" and then "Dr. Strangelove" as a double
feature? It's very interesting....
 
D

Dane Buson

Guest
In rec.bicycles.misc Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>
> Did you ever watch "Fail Safe" and then "Dr. Strangelove" as a double
> feature? It's very interesting....


I've never seen "Fail Safe", but it looks interesting. I'd throw it in
my media queue, but it's so backed up I just recently watched "Sky
Captain and the World of Tomorrow". Next up is "Beijing Bicycle" or
"Kill Bill Volume 1".

--
Dane Buson - [email protected]
"I prefer the wicked rather than the foolish. The wicked sometimes rest."
-Alexandre Dumas
 
O

Ozark Bicycle

Guest
Dane Buson wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> >
> > Did you ever watch "Fail Safe" and then "Dr. Strangelove" as a double
> > feature? It's very interesting....

>
> I've never seen "Fail Safe", but it looks interesting. I'd throw it in
> my media queue, but it's so backed up I just recently watched "Sky
> Captain and the World of Tomorrow". Next up is "Beijing Bicycle" or
> "Kill Bill Volume 1".
>
>


"Fail Safe", based on a serious, best selling book and directed by
Sidney Lumet, is worth seeing on it's own. But when seen just before
"Strangelove", it makes one appreciate the Kubrick/Southern sendup of
"Fail Safe" (the book) that "Strangelove" really is. Highly recommended!
 
M

Michael Press

Guest
In article
<[email protected]>,
"Ozark Bicycle" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Dane Buson wrote:
> > In rec.bicycles.misc Ozark Bicycle <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dane Buson wrote:
> > >> In rec.bicycles.misc Ozark Bicycle <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Ah! Charging a premium for using cane sugar syrup. The final piece of
> > >> > the Coke/New Coke/Coke Classic gambit pays off at long last.
> > >>
> > >> You think too small, it's obviously part of the international Communist
> > >> conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
> > >> That's why I drink only distilled water, or rain water, and only pure
> > >> grain alcohol.
> > >
> > > But, do you deny women your essence?

> >
> > Sometimes I have felt a profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness.
> > Luckily I was able to interpret these feelings correctly: loss of essence. I
> > can assure you it has not recurred, Ozark.
> >
> >

>
> Did you ever watch "Fail Safe" and then "Dr. Strangelove" as a double
> feature? It's very interesting....


The humor in Fail Safe eludes me.

*****

President Merkin Muffley: General Turgidson, I find this
very difficult to understand. I was under the impression
that I was the only one in authority to order the use of
nuclear weapons.

General "Buck" Turgidson: That's right, sir, you are the
only person authorized to do so. And although I, uh, hate
to judge before all the facts are in, it's beginning to
look like, uh, General Ripper exceeded his authority.

--
Michael Press