Opinions: The Un-Saddle



jsirabella

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Jan 1, 2005
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In my never ending quest to find solutions for hrniated discs and lower back issues my wife put me on this web site. I have read the site and testimonials and really impressed actually.

http://www.dimarusa.it/un-saddle/welcome.htm

Has anyone ever used it and has back issues?

From what I can see the biggest drawbacks is need to ride more upright and not able to steer the bike while riding with no hands.

Thanks for reading and let me know if anyone has tried it.

-js
 
I haven't tried it, but I'm sceptical. There are several points in his product presentation that I can't see the base for:

  • It straightens out the legs stroke correcting the outward movement of the knees and eliminating the related injuries. As a further result of this, the legs work perpendicular on the pedals, maximizing the efficiency of the stroke and the overall performance.

I just can't see the mechanics here. You'd have to ride a really wide saddle for this to be an issue. For a regular narrow nosed saddle there's virtually no difference. The bulk of cyclist's knee troubles stems from unsuitable pedalling technique (people grunting it out on too heavy gears), insufficient attention to training (too one sided, no stretching etc) and to a lesser degree equipment related, bike fit, crank length, crank Q-factor(pedal-to-pedal width) and pedal tilt. There are parts called knee savers which'll move the pedals wider apart, and there are wedges that go between sole/cleat to adjust shoe angle.

  • The UN~Saddle® prevents the pushing forward of the upper body, ensuring proper and continuous ischial support.


This one is even more questionable. Get the fit of the bike right for your type of riding, and you won't be sliding forward regardless. Sliding forward is generally seen to be caused by having the saddle too far forward, or the bar too far forward, or both. Saddle too far forward reduces the retaining leverage offered as you push down on the pedals, causing a gradual slide forward. Putting the bar too far ahead puts your upper body too far ahead. Even if the saddle/pedal setup was right for one setting, increasing the "overhang" will also increase the need for an increased retaining leverage to maintain balance.

  • This also enables various positioning on the seat, for different cycling situations, without need of rail adjusting.

Can't see anything unique there. Correctly fitted, a traditional saddle will also allow you to move around a little.

To me, it all sounds like he's comparing a badly chosen saddle on a poorly fitted bike against his seat, on an ideally fitted bike. Not really fair is it?

  • The UN~Saddle® offers an ideal supportive surface, an efficient fulcrum for the legs and the body to "lean against" rather than to "hang from".

Anyone who's "hanging" from the saddle is Doing It Wrong, and/or have a terminally poorly fitted bike.

  • It also prevents chafing of the inner thighs.

Only times I've ever been troubled by that was when riding while wearing a climbing harness, or a longish ride in brand new jeans.

  • It improves agility and quick reacting in technical riding.


This is also very contrary to the general opinion. Even BMXers, who do just about all their riding out of the saddle, prefers to have one fitted. In technical riding you're usually out of the saddle anyhow, but putting your leg against the side of the saddle provides some leverage and control.

And try as I might, in these days of blogs, homepages, tweets ASO, I (=google) can't find a single instance where those people who have given such glowing testimonials say a word about that saddle outside a page trying to sell it.

Noseless seats have been around for ages, and although they have their sworn followers, they're certainly not taking the world with storm. They can probably be part of a proper bike fit and help those who suffer from numbness.
But in your case, with a diagnosed issue quite a few inches higher up, the only benefit I can see is the so-so suspension. In which case there are suspension seat posts that are more tuneable in stroke/firmness that will take your regular saddle.

And for riding more upright - that won't happen just by replacing a saddle, you'd need a shorter/higher stem too to get there. zero offset seat post can contribute - but there are bike fit complications to that.

Maybe look at a Rans crank forward bike?, or a full-blown recumbent?
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dabac->Thank you for the response. As you point out the only real benefit I am looking to get from the seat is to help with LB issues. I can actually ride now for 2 hours on the trainer but after a few days I will pay for it. I can also ride outdoors longer. I am not ready for a recumbent yet and would like to still try and find other options.

According to what I read it seems that the benefit to the LB is that the seat slides a bit left to right to absorb impacts differently than a standard seat. You even have to use their seat post I believe. Could that make the difference?

-js
 
Looks like a wide flaired out saddle with the nose cut off.

Wide backed saddles may work for some but my legs are prevented from extending correctly with such saddle geometry. As Dabac has said most of the claims don't have anything to do with current saddles and are more to do with fitting geometry and physiology. The idea that one single component can make all these complex interrelated issues dissapear sounds very dubious.

I am happy to be proved wrong, but I'm not going to waste my money finding out.
 
tafi->I know what you mean. It just sounds too good to be true. From everyone I spoke with, they told me that there is no answer to people with LB issues other than a recumbent style bike or just ride less. But like many with LB issues you are always hoping to find that quick answer and that is when folks can take advantage of you. That testimonial from the one rider with herniated discs gave me hope.

I guess I will continue the battle and should be happy with my 2 hour rides for now.

-js
 
Originally Posted by jsirabella .

From everyone I spoke with, they told me that there is no answer to people with LB issues other than a recumbent style bike or just ride less. But like many with LB issues you are always hoping to find that quick answer and that is when folks can take advantage of you.
The idea that a recumbent is the only way to ride without back pain sounds like a cop out. There are plenty of people who can ride without back pain, so it is obviously possible. Some people are just luckier than others. The point to take out of it is that, for us unlucky ones, there is no easy or quick fix, but it doesn't mean that we won't or can't find one.

The search for a solution to these sorts of problems is complicated by the fact that most people in the bike fitting section of the industry know next to nothing about physiology and that most experts on physiology know very little about bikes. Cycling (and therefore fitting services) is a growth area, and this has seen the springing up of a lot of services, often run by outright charlatans or well meaning, but deluded, individuals.

I've been trying to find some sort of solution to my own cycling related back pain issues since about 2002. Physios have been able to get me stronger in my core but that has not solved the issue (which must, therefore be structural or postural). My own inhibitions, and the predjudices of my other aquaintances, have prevented me from seeing a chiro but that is my next step. I now see no sense in avoiding one option when all "conventional" approaches have failed. However, throughout the whole process, I have done my own research and my own experimentation in getting to the bottom of the issue.

One source of information, I have found to be useful, if not thought provoking, is the blog of a fellow Sydneysider, Steve Hogg who runs a long standing bikeshop called Pedal Pushers. Steve has a very chequered reputation amongst many of the local cycling fraternity; like anyone in the industry, he has his lovers and haters. This has often come about through misunderstanding or misrepresentation of his work. Most people in the cycling industry are rather dogmatic. Steve is anything but dogmatic. His work as a bike fitter has been and continues to be one which involves learning. He has got where he is by sticking at his problems until he finds workable solutions (through a mixture of literature research, consultation with medicos and experimentation). This is not the kind of process which endears itself to the modern consumer who wants a quick fix to their problems. Many people expect this area to be a simple one which has already been "worked out". The fact of the matter is that the interrelated areas of posture, flexibility, the skeletal system, the muscular system and the nervous system, make this an incredibly complicated issue in which people like Steve hogg are actually breaking new ground. Considering that most medical research throughout history has been acheived through dumb trial-and-error techniques, he does the best job that anyone has the right to expect.

I am one of those who didn't stick out the whole process with him, becasue I wanted a quick fix. He was gracious enough to give me my money back, something which has at least ensured I don't have a bad relationship with him. I now know that to be the wrong decision, but I have found his blog articles to be thought provoking and a basis from which to make my own research and experimentation. Given that research has been my job for the last four years I'm pretty comfortable with that.
 
tafi->Ty, for the post. I know I am not alone in my quest to be able to ride once again for hours and no discomfort. When I talk to many outside of cycling they do not understand why I am trying so hard and should just be happy with the progress I have made. They just want me to accept it. I have been lucky that my doctor does not feel that way but it has forced me to go into lots of "studies" he conducts. The most recent was PRP which did make the difference he predicted. He wants me to come back but he is not sure if he wants to do more if I have had an 80% improvement. I will see him during the winter and see what the MRI shows and if any next steps. Maybe an IDET is in my future also. I would never go the surgery route unless I could not walk and I am very far away from that nightmare any longer.

I did try a chiro and unfortunately it did not work for me. I wish you luck in your quest. In the end your not accepting the ailment will make all the difference. I will continue to play with my seat till I can get the most out of it.

-js
 
Hi jsirabella, have a look at Niacin (Vitamin B3), Magnesium, and Arnica cream.

I had an aggravated LB issue from playing squash, which was also aggravated when cycling by trying to push too hard on the flats or going up climbs in to high a gear. Even though I wanted too, my body wouldn't let me :)
It's interesting, because it my take me 50-60kms or more before my body is warm (free) enough to continuously push it along.

Our bodies are all different, so listen to your body, which I am sure you are doing and be patient :)
Also, Pilates is good :)

PS: Forgot about this, but it is probably a good idea to wear a compression vest or t-shirt to help support your back, etc :)