Opinions Wanted: Building up a new bike

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Brad, May 28, 2003.

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  1. Brad

    Brad Guest

    Hey all,

    So I've been riding for 6 years now on a close out special steel gardin with 8 speed Shimano 105.
    This was my first road bike and I wanted to be sure I was going to stick with it before getting
    anything more. Well I'm loving cycling more every year so I've decided to upgrade.

    Around Christmas I had a fit kit done. The fit showed that a Cannondale frame had a perfect
    geometry for me. Last week I found a good deal on a CAAD4 frame/fork which should be arriving later
    this week.

    The problem I have now is deciding what to put on it. Friends have pretty much convinced me to go
    Campy and I'm planning on a Chorus group. I can't decide if I should go double or triple. Most of my
    rides are in about 25 miles in rolling hills with an average pace of 21-22 mph BUT I do live in
    Nothern Colorado and like to hit the hills for longer 50+ mile rides a few times a month. I had just
    about decided on a double but then did a back breaking ride last weekend where a nice small gear
    sure would have been nice (I'm riding a 12/25 now). So, my choices seem to have come down to getting
    a double 12/25 and a spare 13/29 for the hills OR just getting a triple and probably running a
    11/23. Anyone have advice (as if I need to ask that on this news group :) )?

    Most the build kits I've seen come with open pro rims by default but I've been convinced to upgrade
    to CXP33. I weigh in at 205 lbs and the extra stiffness will be nice and hopefully keep things true
    longer. I plan on doing a 32 spoke back with 14/15 spokes. I'm not sure what to do on the front. One
    buddy says I should just go 28 as the front wheel rarely has problems but I was wondering if I
    should just go 32 up front and maybe a 15/16 spoke.

    Guess thats about it...thanks for any suggestions.
     
    Tags:


  2. Ajames54

    Ajames54 Guest

    On 28 May 2003 12:52:22 -0700, [email protected] (Brad) wrote:

    >Hey all,
    >
    snip..
    >. So, my choices seem to have come down to getting a double 12/25 and a spare 13/29 for the hills
    > OR just getting a triple and probably running a 11/23. Anyone have advice (as if I need to ask
    > that on this news group :) )?
    >
    Why not get a triple? it's not like you have to use the extras if you don't want too...

    >Most the build kits I've seen come with open pro rims by default but I've been convinced to upgrade
    >to CXP33. I weigh in at 205 lbs and the extra stiffness will be nice and hopefully keep things true
    >longer. I plan on doing a 32 spoke back with 14/15 spokes. I'm not sure what to do on the front.
    >One buddy says I should just go 28 as the front wheel rarely has problems but I was wondering if I
    >should just go 32 up front and maybe a 15/16 spoke.
    >
    32 14/15 cross 3 on the back and 32 cross 3 (either 14/15 or
    15/16) on the front ... but since most build kits include machine built wheels I would have a good
    builder redo them. (a good builder will have more to do with keeping them true than rim or
    spoke selection)
     
  3. Tom

    Tom Guest

    I am 73 and faced the same gear delimma. I have a double 53/40 and a 11/28 cog that does most all
    the rides around the Davis Mountains. But I get in a grunt on the longer and steeper grades over 9%
    and would like to have one more gear.

    I borrowed a nice Cannondale triple ring 12/25 and it was almost too easy it seemed in terms of foot
    lbs required; BUT, the 27 gears, versus my current 16 gears wore me out shifting gears. Pedaled my
    self silly it seemed. So for me, the rpms did more to my heart rate than the foot lbs did on the
    double ring.

    I really like the gear ratio of the double ring 53/40 and I have just bought a new 12/32 cog and
    will change out my Dura Ace rear derailleur for a longer XT or XTR derailleur. And I may eventually
    change the 53/40 to a 53/39. I just like my sweet sixteen setup more than going to a 27 or 30 speed
    setup with a triple. The overlap is horrendous too.

    You asked for "opinions" well that's mine and I am just an old amateur who loves to ride in the
    mountains up around Mt Locke where the University of Texas has their McDonald Observatory. Grades go
    from 9% on most of it; but, they have a mile and a half of interior road up to the 107" Dome that is
    17%. At my age you only need to do that 'once.' But I lived in Canon City, CO for eleven years and
    love your beautiful mountains.

    Tom

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  4. Kbh

    Kbh Guest

    The feeling of having too many gears is better described as having a gear selection that is too
    granular. When you borrow someone else's bike with a tighter gear selection, and one that relies on
    the granny for low gears, you may feel that you have to shift too many times in order to get to the
    gear you want. This feeling is temporary and is certainly outweighed by the benefits of having lots
    of gears. Once you get used to riding with a granular cluster, you will more often take advantage of
    the multiple-shift ability that Shimano STI offers on downshifts, and that Campy Ergo offers both
    ways. With an 11-28, you will be accustomed to shifting one cog to achieve a given difference in
    gear, whereas with a tighter cluster the equivalent shift will be several cogs, but this can still
    be done with a single flick of the wrist!

    I have a triple 50-40-28, and a rear 9 speed 13-23. So I often need to use the granny for big hills,
    but its no big deal. I'll ride the granny all the way to the top and shift into the middle of the
    cluster, then shift into the middle ring on the flat.

    And if you don't like shifting - just shift less! ;-)

    "Tom" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I am 73 and faced the same gear delimma. I have a double 53/40 and a
    11/28
    > cog that does most all the rides around the Davis Mountains. But I get
    in
    > a grunt on the longer and steeper grades over 9% and would like to have
    one
    > more gear.
    >
    > I borrowed a nice Cannondale triple ring 12/25 and it was almost too easy it seemed in terms of
    > foot lbs required; BUT, the 27 gears, versus my current 16 gears wore me out shifting gears.
    > Pedaled my self silly it seemed. So for me, the rpms did more to my heart rate than the foot lbs
    > did on the double ring.
    >
    > I really like the gear ratio of the double ring 53/40 and I have just
    bought
    > a new 12/32 cog and will change out my Dura Ace rear derailleur for a
    longer
    > XT or XTR derailleur. And I may eventually change the 53/40 to a 53/39.
    I
    > just like my sweet sixteen setup more than going to a 27 or 30 speed setup with a triple. The
    > overlap is horrendous too.
    >
    > You asked for "opinions" well that's mine and I am just an old amateur who loves to ride in the
    > mountains up around Mt Locke where the University of Texas has their McDonald Observatory. Grades
    > go from 9% on most of it; but, they have a mile and a half of interior road up to the 107" Dome
    > that is 17%. At my age you only need to do that 'once.' But I lived in
    Canon
    > City, CO for eleven years and love your beautiful mountains.
    >
    > Tom
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1
    > Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
     
  5. Joel Solomon

    Joel Solomon Guest

    The gearing is an either or proposition. When I bought my last bike, I went from a Campy Triple to a
    double with a 13 - 29 cassette and have liked the double very much. The advantage of the triple is
    that the gears are closer together, so you can precisely tune cadence. The double is a bit more
    elegant to operate. To be honest, I could live happily with either arrangement.

    Good Luck,

    Joel Solomon
     
  6. brad-<< So, my choices seem to have come down to getting a double 12/25 and a spare 13/29 for the
    hills OR just getting a triple and probably running a 11/23.

    Why not a triple and a 12-25...The triple or double will start with a 53, so I don't see the need
    for a triple and 11t...

    The 30t ring will serve as a good sub for the 29t with a double...

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  7. brad-<< Most the build kits I've seen come with open pro rims by default but I've been convinced to
    upgrade to CXP33. I weigh in at 205 lbs .

    << I plan on doing a 32 spoke back with 14/15 spokes. I'm not sure what to do on the front. One
    buddy says I should just go 28 as the front wheel rarely has problems but I was wondering if I
    should just go 32 up front and maybe a 15/16 spoke.

    C'mon Brad, whay would you want to save a few grams on the front wheel? Why not 36 rear and 32
    front, 14/15 all around, built well..the resulting wheelset will be about 60 grams heavier than a
    32/28 and/or 15/16 spokes...

    The front wheel supports about 45% of your weight, a reliabvle front wheel is
    1/2 of a reliable wheelset...

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (2)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  8. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On 28 May 2003 12:52:22 -0700, [email protected] (Brad) wrote:

    >So, my choices seem to have come down to getting a double 12/25 and a spare 13/29 for the hills OR
    >just getting a triple and probably running a 11/23. Anyone have advice (as if I need to ask that on
    >this news group :) )?

    Run a double with a 12/25 and a 110 bolt pattern double, 48/34. I have some cranksets if you cannot
    find. This will give you the same range as the 13/29 double with a 53/39. You will not have to get
    the longer cage Chorus derailleur. If you had Centaur, the standard rear derailleur willl work fine
    with a 39/29. With 10 cogs, a triple should not be necessary.

    Should you decide you will keep the 53/39 and 12/25, you don't have to buy a 13/29. Buy a Centaur
    12/25 and a 28T x 9sp cog. Take out the 16 and put the 28 on first with the 2.8mm Campy 9sp spacer.
    That spacer will fit into the spider of the next group of cogs and yield the proper spacing. You'll
    have a 12/28. Should you buy a Chorus cassette, the 16 is attached to a nest of cogs and you'll have
    to pull the 15 out.

    You gain a bit of weight savings only by going from Centaur to Chorus.
     
  9. Brad

    Brad Guest

    Paul,

    But that setup seems to sacrifice my high end. The 13/29 was just for hills. On my more normal rides
    I often get spun out at 12/53. Ideally if I stuck with a double I would like more range on both the
    top and the bottom. Is there a way to setup the crank with something like 53/34 and run an 11/23?

    Brad

    Paul Kopit <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > On 28 May 2003 12:52:22 -0700, [email protected] (Brad) wrote:
    >
    > >So, my choices seem to have come down to getting a double 12/25 and a spare 13/29 for the hills
    > >OR just getting a triple and probably running a 11/23. Anyone have advice (as if I need to ask
    > >that on this news group :) )?
    >
    > Run a double with a 12/25 and a 110 bolt pattern double, 48/34. I have some cranksets if you
    > cannot find. This will give you the same range as the 13/29 double with a 53/39. You will not have
    > to get the longer cage Chorus derailleur. If you had Centaur, the standard rear derailleur willl
    > work fine with a 39/29. With 10 cogs, a triple should not be necessary.
    >
    > Should you decide you will keep the 53/39 and 12/25, you don't have to buy a 13/29. Buy a Centaur
    > 12/25 and a 28T x 9sp cog. Take out the 16 and put the 28 on first with the 2.8mm Campy 9sp
    > spacer. That spacer will fit into the spider of the next group of cogs and yield the proper
    > spacing. You'll have a 12/28. Should you buy a Chorus cassette, the 16 is attached to a nest of
    > cogs and you'll have to pull the 15 out.
    >
    > You gain a bit of weight savings only by going from Centaur to Chorus.
     
  10. Brad

    Brad Guest

    Going with the 11 would give me an extra high gear over what I have today. I do often end up spun on
    on the 12/25 so this would be an extra advantage of the triple.

    [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > brad-<< So, my choices seem to have come down to getting a double 12/25 and a spare 13/29 for the
    > hills OR just getting a triple and probably running a 11/23.
    >
    > Why not a triple and a 12-25...The triple or double will start with a 53, so I don't see the need
    > for a triple and 11t...
    >
    > The 30t ring will serve as a good sub for the 29t with a double...
    >
    >
    > Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    > (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  11. On Thu, 29 May 2003 19:36:16 +0000, Brad wrote:

    > Paul,
    >
    > But that setup seems to sacrifice my high end. The 13/29 was just for hills. On my more normal
    > rides I often get spun out at 12/53.

    Then you are either going well over 35mph. 100rpm in that gear is 34+mph, and 100rpm is not all that
    "spun out". I presume this is on the flat that you cruise at 35mph?

    > Ideally if I stuck with a double I would like more range on both the top and the bottom. Is there
    > a way to setup the crank with something like 53/34 and run an 11/23?

    You can do that, yes, though many will tell you you can't. That is 31 total teeth, so you would need
    a long-cage derailleur to take up the slack. Maybe the new Campy derailleurs, which have a bit more
    capacity, will be OK, but a long-cage derailleur such as one meant for a triple will be sure to
    work. The 53/34 will not shift particularly well, but with careful adjustment, especially with Campy
    Ergo as opposed to STI, it is doable.

    To do this you'll need probably a TA crankset. I use mountain-bike cranks, since I don't care about
    the top end (with your gears your top 3 are bigger than anything I have), but getting a big ring as
    big as a 53 will be hard with what is left of the 110mm selection, and even harder with 94mm
    (impossible with the 104mm, as far as I have seen). But TA cranksets had a very small bolt circle,
    and also big chainrings, so should work.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a _`\(,_ | conclusion. --
    George Bernard Shaw (_)/ (_) |
     
  12. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On 29 May 2003 19:36:16 -0700, [email protected] (Brad) wrote:

    >Paul,
    >
    >But that setup seems to sacrifice my high end. The 13/29 was just for hills. On my more normal
    >rides I often get spun out at 12/53. Ideally if I stuck with a double I would like more range on
    >both the top and the bottom. Is there a way to setup the crank with something like 53/34 and run
    >an 11/23?

    I don't have a good answer for your situation. I spin a 53/13 in the low 30s mph. Above that, on a
    downgrade, I'm better off getting into a tuck. I find that the low end gears are more useful than
    the 11s. I would think that someone that spins out the 53/12 in the flats shouldn't need more than a
    12/25 in the hills...unless you are heavy.
     
  13. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    Readilly available.

    On Thu, 29 May 2003 23:36:27 -0400, "David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > but getting a big ring as big as a 53 will be hard with what is left of the 110mm selection,
     
  14. [email protected] (Brad) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Hey all,
    >
    > So I've been riding for 6 years now on a close out special steel gardin with 8 speed Shimano 105.
    > This was my first road bike and I wanted to be sure I was going to stick with it before getting
    > anything more. Well I'm loving cycling more every year so I've decided to upgrade.
    >
    > Around Christmas I had a fit kit done. The fit showed that a Cannondale frame had a perfect
    > geometry for me. Last week I found a good deal on a CAAD4 frame/fork which should be arriving
    > later this week.
    >
    > The problem I have now is deciding what to put on it. Friends have pretty much convinced me to go
    > Campy and I'm planning on a Chorus group. I can't decide if I should go double or triple. Most of
    > my rides are in about 25 miles in rolling hills with an average pace of 21-22 mph BUT I do live in
    > Nothern Colorado and like to hit the hills for longer 50+ mile rides a few times a month. I had
    > just about decided on a double but then did a back breaking ride last weekend where a nice small
    > gear sure would have been nice (I'm riding a 12/25 now). So, my choices seem to have come down to
    > getting a double 12/25 and a spare 13/29 for the hills OR just getting a triple and probably
    > running a 11/23. Anyone have advice (as if I need to ask that on this news group :) )?
    >
    > Most the build kits I've seen come with open pro rims by default but I've been convinced to
    > upgrade to CXP33. I weigh in at 205 lbs and the extra stiffness will be nice and hopefully keep
    > things true longer. I plan on doing a 32 spoke back with 14/15 spokes. I'm not sure what to do on
    > the front. One buddy says I should just go 28 as the front wheel rarely has problems but I was
    > wondering if I should just go 32 up front and maybe a 15/16 spoke.
    >
    > Guess thats about it...thanks for any suggestions.

    Think seriously about getting a triple and since Campy has no Mt. Bike stuff now I'd get Shimano Mt
    bike triple. Then use whatever reear cllluster you need to be comfortable climbing. Your riding
    buddies might think you're proufoundly out of fashion, but you'd be showing singular good sense.
     
  15. Brad

    Brad Guest

    Arrrg! Things are never simple.

    So looking into things a bit closer it seems the Chorus isn't offered in a triple; Only Record or
    Centaur. To go triple you need either pay the price for a Record BB and cranks OR go to Centaur.
    I've heard that for most things centaur isn't much different than Chorus BUT the BB is an exception.
    I hear the Chorus and Record BB is much smoother and lighter than Centaur.

    What to do....what to do...
     
  16. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On 30 May 2003 11:17:58 -0700, [email protected] (Michael Pearlman) wrote:

    >Think seriously about getting a triple and since Campy has no Mt. Bike stuff now I'd get Shimano Mt
    >bike triple. Then use whatever reear cllluster you need to be comfortable climbing. Your riding
    >buddies might think you're proufoundly out of fashion, but you'd be showing singular good sense.

    If you have Campy 9 and a Shiman hub, you can shift any Shimano cassette.
     
  17. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On 30 May 2003 15:23:54 -0700, [email protected] (Brad) wrote:

    >Arrrg! Things are never simple.
    >
    >So looking into things a bit closer it seems the Chorus isn't offered in a triple; Only Record or
    >Centaur. To go triple you need either pay the price for a Record BB and cranks OR go to Centaur.
    >I've heard that for most things centaur isn't much different than Chorus BUT the BB is an
    >exception. I hear the Chorus and Record BB is much smoother and lighter than Centaur.
    >
    >What to do....what to do...

    You can use the Record 10 bb for a Centaur triple crankset. The weight savings is not meaningful.
     
  18. Lee

    Lee Guest

    "Brad" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Arrrg! Things are never simple.
    >
    > So looking into things a bit closer it seems the Chorus isn't offered in a triple; Only Record or
    > Centaur. To go triple you need either pay the price for a Record BB and cranks OR go to Centaur.
    > I've heard that for most things centaur isn't much different than Chorus BUT the BB is an
    > exception. I hear the Chorus and Record BB is much smoother and lighter than Centaur.
    >
    > What to do....what to do...

    How many times in your life are you going to build up a bike. How many years will you own this one.

    Record it is :)

    Lee
     
  19. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    > On Thu, 29 May 2003 23:36:27 -0400, "David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > but getting a big ring as big as a 53 will be hard with what is left of the 110mm selection,

    "Paul Kopit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Readilly available.

    Indeed. 34t up to 58t and from dozens of US distributors in several brands.

    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  20. Brad

    Brad Guest

    At 205 most would consider me heavy...
     
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