OS Map Packages and GPS Interoperability?



Paul Saunders <[email protected]> wrote
>
>Confused? Use Ozi for your GPS.
>
>To be fair to Anquet, I've noticed that they have added more GPS features in the latest version and
>I think you can now convert tracks to paths and vice versa, or something like that, but I'm not
>sure because I've only looked at it briefly. I haven't seen enough improvements to persuade me to
>stop using Ozi. Anquet just wasn't designed for GPS, although I daresay that it's quite usable for
>that if you have no other option, and perhaps it doesn't seem as bad as I'm making it out to be if
>you've never used a program like Ozi.
>
I have never tried Anquet, and your description has convinced me that I never will, although the
1:25000 mapping will be hard to resist to plan a route and print a map off with the waypoints shown,
then send them to the GPS.

If you can do those basic things then it will save scanning maps into Ozi, but I would still want to
plot the tracks on the map and examine them on screen.
--
Gordon
 
"Paul Saunders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Steve Orrell wrote:
>
> > Can anyone help me with my queries? Does Anquet let you worth with your GPS data as well as
> > OziExplorer (both to and from GPS)
>
> No. The basic problem with Anquet was that it was never designed for GPS use. The first version
> had no GPS functionality whatsoever, it was added as an afterthought. Because of this, certain
> fundamental design decisions were made which didn't suit GPS use, so making it work with GPS later
> was like forcing a square peg into a round hole.
>
> I wrote a review about Anquet once on this newsgroup, when I first tried it. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=anquet+maps+review&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-
> 8& oe=UTF-8&selm=agt1k2%24f7m%241%40newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk&rnum=2
>
> The basic problem with using Anquet for GPS is that they use slightly different concepts which
> don't match properly. Anquet uses what they call "waypoints", "paths" and "routes". GPS units use
> what Garmin calls "waypoints", "tracks" and "routes".
>
> The problem is that an Anquet waypoint is not the same as a GPS waypoint, an Anquet path is not
> the same as a GPS track, and an Anquet route is not the same as a GPS route. They've tried to bash
> these pegs into roughly the same holes, but they don't work in quite the same way.
>
> A GPS waypoint contains coordinate data, a name, a description, an icon, and height data. An
> Anquet waypoint doesn't have a name or description as such, although they can be added as a
> separate piece of information. This info is not sent to the GPS. You can choose icons for Anquet
> waypoints, but they don't match the icons in your GPS and aren't sent to the GPS. You can't add
> height data either.

Latest version allows named waypoints to be created and sent to the GPS. Height has been around
for while.

> A GPS track is a series of track points connected together. Each track point contains coordinate
> data, plus time and date, but no name. An Anquet path may look the same, but it's actually a
> series of waypoints. Paths can be combined into routes. When you send a route to your GPS it sends
> each point as a separate waypoint, thus filling your GPS with loads of waypoints.
>

Only if you so choose. You can choose only to download waypoints, all nodes or re-sample at a set
distance to create intermediate waypoints. I find this actually better for general hillwlking - not
much use having a big arrow poiting you directly to the next waypoint if theres a corrie / cliff /
river / loch etc in the way!

> A GPS route is a series of waypoints connected together. In practice you don't need to place many
> of these, you only need a few key waypoints to form a route. Suppose you need to follow a twisty
> path from one junction to another, you only need to place waypoints at the junctions. The next
> waypoint will tell you where you need to go, but you don't have to walk in a straight line toward
> it. With Anquet, it will send dozens of waypoints to the GPS tracing out every little twist and
> turn, which is unnecessary. Most GPS units don't have a very large route capacity, but Anquet
> sends so many waypoints that it will fill up many route slots to mark out just one route.
>

Again - you select how frequently you need a waypoint.

> Of course, you can mark your paths differently in Anquet to take account of this, but then you're
> not using Anquet in the way that it was intended. It was intended that you trace out the paths
> accurately onto the map so that it can calculate the correct distance, ascent, Naismith time etc.
> If you only mark path points at waypoint junctions that will come out all wrong. An Anquet path or
> route should equate to a GPS track, not a GPS route, a route should be a different thing
> altogether.
>

> Confused? Use Ozi for your GPS.
>
> To be fair to Anquet, I've noticed that they have added more GPS features in the latest version
> and I think you can now convert tracks to paths and vice versa, or something like that, but I'm
> not sure because I've only looked at it briefly. I haven't seen enough improvements to persuade me
> to stop using Ozi. Anquet just wasn't designed for GPS, although I daresay that it's quite usable
> for that if you have no other option, and perhaps it doesn't seem as bad as I'm making it out to
> be if you've never used a program like Ozi.
>

I know you have tried to make clear that you were referrring to an earlier version of Anquet, but
think you need to try the later (and latest) versions. Personally, I'd rather miss out on a few
esoteric GPS functions for the other ease of use factors (like the fact that all the mapping data is
there and that features such as 3D are now built in).

druidh
 
[email protected] said...
> Confused? Use Ozi for your GPS.
>
But - am I right in thinking that to use Ozi you need to scan in the relevant section of a
paper OS map?
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.
 
Hi Fran

Yes or at least provide some form of image that you can calibrate in Ozi. Depends where you are. In
America it seems digital maps are cheap and easy to obtain. Not the case here though unless you
scan, or use Streetmap or something similar.

Mike Mason

"Fran" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] said...
> > Confused? Use Ozi for your GPS.
> >
> But - am I right in thinking that to use Ozi you need to scan in the relevant section of a
> paper OS map?
> --
> Fran If you need my email address please ask.
 
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:17:41 GMT, Mike Mason wrote:

>"Fran" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> [email protected] said...

>> > Confused? Use Ozi for your GPS.

>> But - am I right in thinking that to use Ozi you need to scan in the relevant section of a paper
>> OS map?

>Yes or at least provide some form of image that you can calibrate in Ozi. Depends where you are. In
>America it seems digital maps are cheap and easy to obtain.

US maps are cheap because you are only paying for the medium not the image. USGS has it's maps in
the public domain.

>Not the case here though unless you scan, or use Streetmap or something similar.

All of which are strictly speaking illegal.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"
 
In a recent message <[email protected]>, druidh
<[email protected]> wrote.

>I think the reasonably priced method of getting OS data for GPS use is called Anquet, Fugawi or
>Memory Map. Of course, there's nothing to stop Ozi getting a similar licensing deal in place, but
>then they'd presumably have to charge more - perhaps in line with these other products. druidh

I don't agree with that, the reasonable way of getting OS maps in digital form would be for the OS
to sell them at reasonable prices. IMHO a reasonable price for a digital OS map would be a price
equivalent to what one would pay for the paper version, less the cost of printing, distribution and
less the dealer's mark-up. Log on to the OS web site, select the area you want and the scale, pay
for it and download it. Simple.

For myself, I will continue to scan paper OS maps to use with GARtrip, this is not 'illegal' it is
fair and reasonable use. I don't *care* about what it says about reproduction on OS maps, the way I
use scanned OS maps causes no loss to the OS. What have I stolen? Where is the crime? All a lot of
silly fuss about nothing.

I feel better now <g>.

Regards, Nick.

--
Nick Hopton and Anne Hopton Caversham, Reading, England <[email protected]
 
Nick Hopton <[email protected]> wrote
>
>>I think the reasonably priced method of getting OS data for GPS use is called Anquet, Fugawi or
>>Memory Map. Of course, there's nothing to stop Ozi getting a similar licensing deal in place, but
>>then they'd presumably have to charge more - perhaps in line with these other products. druidh
>
>I don't agree with that, the reasonable way of getting OS maps in digital form would be for the OS
>to sell them at reasonable prices. IMHO a reasonable price for a digital OS map would be a price
>equivalent to what one would pay for the paper version, less the cost of printing, distribution and
>less the dealer's mark-up. Log on to the OS web site, select the area you want and the scale, pay
>for it and download it. Simple.
>
>For myself, I will continue to scan paper OS maps to use with GARtrip, this is not 'illegal' it is
>fair and reasonable use. I don't *care* about what it says about reproduction on OS maps, the way I
>use scanned OS maps causes no loss to the OS. What have I stolen? Where is the crime? All a lot of
>silly fuss about nothing.
>
>I feel better now <g>.
>
So do I. :) I agree absolutely with you. If I have bought a 1:25000 OS map I will do what I like
with it so long as I don't make money out of it. I have worn so many out that I should get a free CD
of Derbyshire and the Yorkshire Dales from them.

Scanning and printing an A4 area saves the map from getting ruined for studying at home.

In fact, when it gets soft enough I can wipe my a**e on it if I want like I do with very old
£20 notes.
--
Gordon
 
Gordon wrote:

> I have never tried Anquet, and your description has convinced me that I never will, although the
> 1:25000 mapping will be hard to resist to plan a route and print a map off with the waypoints
> shown, then send them to the GPS.
>
> If you can do those basic things then it will save scanning maps into Ozi, but I would still want
> to plot the tracks on the map and examine them on screen.

You can do that, but not with as much detail available. Of course if you buy the 25k mapping then
you can cut and paste into Ozi.

One thing that does bug me is that you can't import Ozi tracks and waypoints into Anquet and vice-
versa. If someone could write a conversion utility that would be really great. I've got four years
worth of tracks saved in Ozi format and there's no way that I'm going to upload them one at a time
into my GPS, swap leads, then download them into Anquet. It would be very nice to look at them on
the 3D terrain though, and to "walk the route" in 3D.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=118749
 
druidh wrote:

> Latest version allows named waypoints to be created and sent to the GPS. Height has been around
> for while.

Really? Individually named rather than just setting a prefix? That's good.

>> When you send a route to your GPS it sends each point as a separate waypoint, thus filling your
>> GPS with loads of waypoints.
>
> Only if you so choose. You can choose only to download waypoints, all nodes or re-sample at a set
> distance to create intermediate waypoints.

Well that's an improvement too.

> I find this actually better for general hillwlking - not much use having a big arrow poiting you
> directly to the next waypoint if theres a corrie / cliff / river / loch etc in the way!

Perhaps, but with only 20 waypoints per route it's not very practical to have loads of them in a
route, and I don't like them filling up my waypoint memory either. Not a problem if you only have
waypoints for one route loaded, but it can be a problem if you have hundreds of waypoints
comprehensively covering an area.

I'm not in the habit of walking in straight lines between waypoints. I know that the best route
between waypoints is to follow a path, or a ridge, or the twists and turns of a river or contours or
whatever, so I couldn't care less whether the arrow is pointing in the right direction or not.]

To me, the compass arrow doesn't mean "walk in this direction", instead it means "this is where the
next waypoint is in relation to your current position". It does not indicate the best route to get
there. In 95% of situations I can see the terrain clearly and choose the best route between
waypoints. Only if I'm walking at night or in thick fog do I need to put in more waypoints than
usual. I'll do this if I expect bad visibility and need to negotiate obstacles like cliffs or
whatever. If I get caught out unexpectedly I'll just get the map out to check for obstacles.

> Again - you select how frequently you need a waypoint.

Useful, but I prefer to select exactly where to put each waypoint.

> I know you have tried to make clear that you were referrring to an earlier version of Anquet, but
> think you need to try the later (and latest) versions.

Fair enough, but Anquet is on my newer computer and my GPS lead won't fit the ps/2 com ports.

> Personally, I'd rather miss out on a few esoteric GPS functions for the other ease of use factors
> (like the fact that all the mapping data is there and that features such as 3D are now built in).

Certainly appealing, but which functions are left out? Does Anquet save the time and date on track
nodes? (I doubt it, since it can't even display them, to my knowledge.) This is important to me.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=118749
 
"Paul Saunders" <[email protected]> wrote> Is there a legal method of getting OS maps into
Ozi? No. So what's the> alternative? If the OS don't offer a legal method, which method do you>
think people will choose?> > If eating were made illegal, do you think people would stop eating? Of>
course not. If people really need to do something they're going to do> it, legal or not. If the OS
don't want people to copy maps for use in> Ozi, then why don't they provide a reasonably priced
legal method for> doing this?> I think the reasonably priced method of getting OS data for GPS use
is called Anquet, Fugawi or Memory Map. Of course, there's nothing to stop Ozi getting a similar
licensing deal in place, but then they'd presumably have to charge more - perhaps in line with these
other products. druidh
 
I know, I know

However my son is doing a civil engineering degree in London. This year one of his options is
geology which has field trips and mapping work included. I must explore the possibilities with him.

Mike

"Phil Cook" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:17:41 GMT, Mike Mason wrote:
>
> >"Fran" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >> [email protected] said...
>
> >> > Confused? Use Ozi for your GPS.
>
> >> But - am I right in thinking that to use Ozi you need to scan in the relevant section of a
> >> paper OS map?
>
> >Yes or at least provide some form of image that you can calibrate in Ozi. Depends where you are.
> >In America it seems digital maps are cheap and
easy
> >to obtain.
>
> US maps are cheap because you are only paying for the medium not the image. USGS has it's maps in
> the public domain.
>
> >Not the case here though unless you scan, or use Streetmap or something similar.
>
> All of which are strictly speaking illegal.
> --
> Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"
 
Nick Hopton wrote:

> For myself, I will continue to scan paper OS maps to use with GARtrip, this is not 'illegal' it is
> fair and reasonable use.

Technically they'd probably disagree, but I agree in principle.

> I don't *care* about what it says about reproduction on OS maps, the way I use scanned OS maps
> causes no loss to the OS. What have I stolen? Where is the crime? All a lot of silly fuss about
> nothing.

Yes, I've bought the paper maps and I've bought the digital maps by buying Anquet, so why should it
matter how I use them?

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=118749
 
>For myself, I will continue to scan paper OS maps to use with GARtrip, this is not 'illegal' it is
>fair and reasonable use. I don't *care* about what it says about reproduction on OS maps, the way I
>use scanned OS maps causes no loss to the OS. What have I stolen? Where is the crime? All a lot of
>silly fuss about nothing.

OS maps are fragile.. by using scans and keeping a map in the library at home means that they are
not getting their papier mache replacement money!

Other than that, what have they lost. They have done OK out of me thats for sure.... Tons of the
things lying about the house.

Richard Webb
 
Curious that ther's been no reply from a MM user? (especially since that the software I was more
interested in ;-)

However, I have come to something like a conclusion. From my perspective Anquet on its own does not
fit my needs at all; Anquet + OziExplorer does but its a kludge (in an ideal world) and a real pita
getting useable maps into Ozi.

That leaves MM which I have previously installed a demo version of. Initially, I didn't get my teeth
into until it had 2 days remaining on its trial period and hence wasn't able to answer my own
questions, but I've since been able to re-start its 'clock' and looked at it again, this time from
the perspective of being able to know what I'm looking for, so to speak.

It certainly seems that MM 2004 has everything that Anquet+Ozi combined bring to the table, plus a
few other things, so MM is the route I'm going to go.

Many thanks to everyone who helped me out on this, offered their own opinions, shared their own
experiences.

Cheors,

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum; http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk
 
On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:27:58 +0000, Chris <proteus1@gmxDOTnet> wrote:

>Steve Orrell wrote:
>
>>Curious that ther's been no reply from a MM user?
>>
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>

<quote>
> With the latest MM you can split the track, and delete the bits you don't want.
</endquote>

Soz Chris, of course was commenting on the dearth of responses in general terms from MM users as a
population and not your own contribution.

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum; http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk
 
Have you tried http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/ ?

There's a MM forum there.

Peter.

<Steve Orrell> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:27:58 +0000, Chris <proteus1@gmxDOTnet> wrote:
>
> >Steve Orrell wrote:
> >
> >>Curious that ther's been no reply from a MM user?
> >>
> >Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>
> <quote>
> > With the latest MM you can split the track, and delete the bits you don't want.
> </endquote>
>
> Soz Chris, of course was commenting on the dearth of responses in general terms from MM users as a
> population and not your own contribution.
>
>
>
>
>
> SteveO
>
> NE Climbers & walkers chat forum; http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php
>
> NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk