Oscar Pereiro positiv?



Serafino

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wicklow200 said:
Its the most amazing sport for asthmatics. They seem to be attracted to it like moths to a light. Are there as many in athletics or ball sports?

Didn't Salvoldelli pull out of last years Giro because of astha problems?
Well, I didn't develop asthma until my early 30's. In my case its environment and alergic. It dissappears for years but just flared up. In fact, it got so bad about ten years ago that I was hospitalized. Then after treatment, total dissappeared and I was running 80 km a week and cycling 300 km without any issue.

In N.A. about 35% of children are now diagnosed as asthmatic. It used to be the odd child. So I'm not surprised that a percentage of the peloton is asthmatic and needs sabutamol (especially in advance of a stage to ward off an attack or restricted breathing).

But, it should be a really cut and dried issue in terms of medical exemptions, etc.
 

meandmybike

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wicklow200 said:
Its the most amazing sport for asthmatics. They seem to be attracted to it like moths to a light. Are there as many in athletics or ball sports?

Didn't Salvoldelli pull out of last years Giro because of astha problems?


Hayfever.
 

cheapie

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Tim Lamkin said:
Another six months and the 15th place will be the winner

naw. they'd stop at 7th where
Cyril Dessel, the top placed French rider is. ;)
 

Serafino

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Evidently there are some French riders among the 7 who tested positive for the drug .....

"A total of 12 riders have been controlled positive for that product - 5 of them have recognized justifications, but 7 (from which Pereiro and some French riders too) do not show "good reasons"."

I must say, the "stopping allergies and "moderate" asthma doesn't seem like a very good justification:

"I have been allowed to use it since March 2005," the Caisse d'Epargne rider said. "I use it to stop my allergies and have received permission for each season to use it."

1. Salbutamol doesn't stop and allergies. It opens up the breathing passages in case of distress or attack. You can also take it in advance of a workout.

2. With "moderate" asthma you shouldn't be using it. For example, I saw my doctor on the 12th as was told stop using it even 2-3 times per week (I haven't used it for week) even though one might continue to use something like Flovent.

3. Salbutamol, IMO, can certainly benefit someone who doesn't have asthma in that it can assist breathing and (this is one of the reasons I don't like it unless absolutely necessary) it speeds up your metabolism/heartrate, etc.

If Oscar is legitimately asthmatic this shouldn't be an issue. In fact, I was looking for a Turbohaler version of Salbutamol so that I can take it out on rides "just in case" I had difficulty breathing. In its usual form its an inhaler spray used with or without an aerochamber. If he used it in advance of the stages in question, then there would be prior evidence that his breathing was impaired in advance or he was suffering from attacks.

Hopefully, this is all for nothing but it does show a looming battle between the AFLD and the UCI. Not good for the sport.
 

wolfix

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Just curious here...If they keep announcing positive tests, and at the end of the month everyone that raced the TDF 2006 ends up suspended..... Does the yellow jersey revert back to the winner of the 2005 TDF...Lance Armstrong????? Which would give him 8 TDF victories????
But that's not my question ....... My question is if this was to happen, do we have to endure one more year of "Lance does This, Lance Does That" threads????? One more year of Lance postings may be more difficult to handle then another year of OP...........
 

limerickman

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If the UCI had taken the stance that they should have taken following Festina in July 1998 - I don't think that we would be in the huge mess that the sport now finds itself.


I don't know about you, gentlemen (and ladies), but the professional peloton has lost it's lustre for this fan.
 

jhuskey

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wolfix said:
Just curious here...If they keep announcing positive tests, and at the end of the month everyone that raced the TDF 2006 ends up suspended..... Does the yellow jersey revert back to the winner of the 2005 TDF...Lance Armstrong????? Which would give him 8 TDF victories????
But that's not my question ....... My question is if this was to happen, do we have to endure one more year of "Lance does This, Lance Does That" threads????? One more year of Lance postings may be more difficult to handle then another year of OP...........


I have considered the situation and I have established that it is Friday,............. and by process of comparitive equivocation that we should start drinking heavily.
And then..................... don't stop until late SUnDay nIgHt.
I tHn ik i HasvE Masdue Mi PoiNtE.
 

Bro Deal

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Serafino said:
I must say, the "stopping allergies and "moderate" asthma doesn't seem like a very good justification...
Here's a question. How do you diagnose asthma? Is there something objective that can be looked at? Or is it one of these things like Viagra where people tell the doctor the little guy is lethargic and wink at the doctor, he winks back and writes out a prescription?
 

Bro Deal

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wolfix said:
Does the yellow jersey revert back to the winner of the 2005 TDF...Lance Armstrong????? Which would give him 8 TDF victories????
Nope, he tested positive six times for EPO. He gets stripped of his bogus wins and Christophe Bassons, the only honest pro in the last ten years, gets them.
 

earth_dweller

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limerickman said:
If the UCI had taken the stance that they should have taken following Festina in July 1998 - I don't think that we would be in the huge mess that the sport now finds itself.


I don't know about you, gentlemen (and ladies), but the professional peloton has lost it's lustre for this fan.
This lady (well) agrees with you. I am completely fed up with all the organisations & groups involved in the major crapfest: UCI, WADA, pro cyclists, teams, sponsors, DS, ..... They all keep pointing fingers at each other instead of stepping up, taking a long hard look at themselves and trying to address the problem. What a bunch of wankers.
 

Serafino

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Bro Deal said:
Here's a question. How do you diagnose asthma? Is there something objective that can be looked at? Or is it one of these things like Viagra where people tell the doctor the little guy is lethargic and wink at the doctor, he winks back and writes out a prescription?

Good question actually. Its an issue of restricted breathing. However, if you have a high VO2 Max and good lung capacity, you can actually blow the flow meter off the scale yet still have symptoms of asthma. Objectively, anyone looking at the reading could see that you are blowing a volume of air 2 x that of a "non" asthmatic and say what's the problem. That was exactly my experience this past week.

In my experience, doctors are far to quick to offer Ventolin/Salbutamol, etc. Unless its severe or obvious (i.e. wheezing), the diagnosis can be quite subjective (i.e., you have some difficulty breathing you say ... here's a prescription).
 

azdroptop

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Serafino said:
All in keeping with the general incompetence of the French authorities. Took some time to come up, eh, whereas the Landis test came out quickly even though it came later in the TdF.

Sabutamol (Ventolin) is a very common asthma drug used in case of severely restricted breathing. Its not therapeutic, unlike something like Flovent, but used in case of a crisis or problem.

If Oscar really had a problem with asthma, this should not be an issue as its very commonly used. I developed asthma about ten years ago (environmental factors I believe after moving back to N.A. (it doesn't hit me in the Med) and was given Sabutamol. Anyone who's had it can attest that its like a hit of speed in that it gets the heart pumping. Its not something to be taken unless breathing is really restricted, and if taken more than 3-4 times per week, there's a serious asthma problem.

If Oscar needed it during the race, then his asthma should have been well known and quite chronic. I was off of it for years and just got back on for a month after exposure to a cat (I'm highly allergic). Other factors are excessive cold air, smog, allergic reactions, etc.

Either there's more to this story or its nothing. Still, quite a long time for Oscar to have failed to present a valid prescription, etc.
According to this source the dose can be 3 to 4 times a day?

Qualitative and quantitative composition

Salapin: Salbutamol BP 2mg as sulphate in each 5mL of a raspberry cola flavoured, sugar free syrup.

Clinical particulars

Therapeutic Indications

Salbutamol is a selective β2 adrenoceptor agonist. At therapeutic doses it acts on the β2 adrenoceptors of bronchial muscle, with little or no action on the β-1 adrenoceptors of the heart. It is suitable for the management and prevention of attack in asthma.

Bronchodilators should not be the only or main treatment in patients with severe or unstable asthma. Severe asthma requires regular medical assessment as death may occur. Patients with severe asthma have constant symptoms and frequent exacerbations, with limited physical capacity, and PEF values below 60% predicted at baseline with greater than 30% variability, usually not returning entirely to normal after a bronchodilator. These patients will require high dose inhaled (eg >1mg/day beclomethasone dipropionate) or oral corticosteroid therapy. Sudden worsening of symptoms may require increased corticosteroid dosage which should be administered under urgent medical supervision.

Salapin is indicated for relief of bronchospasm in bronchial asthma of all types, chronic bronchitis and emphysema.

Salapin is suitable oral therapy for children or those adults who prefer liquid medicines.

Posology and method of administration

Salbutamol has a duration of action of 4 to 6 hours in most patients.

Increasing use of β2 agonists may be a sign of worsening asthma.

Under these conditions a reassessment of the patient's therapy plan may be required and concomitant glucocorticosteroid therapy should be considered.

As there may be adverse effects associated with excessive dosing, the dosage or frequency of administration should only be increased on medical advice.

Adults:-

The usual effective dose is 10mL salbutamol (4 milligrams of salbutamol) three or four times per day. If adequate bronchodilation is not obtained each single dose may be gradually increased to as much as 20mL of Syrup (8 milligrams salbutamol).

Some patients obtain adequate relief with 5mL of syrup (2 milligrams salbutamol) three or four times daily.

 

Bro Deal

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Serafino said:
Good question actually. Its an issue of restricted breathing. However, if you have a high VO2 Max and good lung capacity, you can actually blow the flow meter off the scale yet still have symptoms of asthma. Objectively, anyone looking at the reading could see that you are blowing a volume of air 2 x that of a "non" asthmatic and say what's the problem. That was exactly my experience this past week.
So, all a pro has to do is not blow as much as he is capable of and tell the doctor he sometimes has difficulty breathing? I was hoping for something like lung biopsy or visuals from some sort of scoped view of the lung tissue. It seems to me that the TUEs that are issued are not worth the paper they are printed on. The Tour has good reason to question these.

If the UCI were serious about doping, they would use much stricter diagnosis guidlines that what is used for Joe Public by his family physician.
 

Bro Deal

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From another story on cyclingnews:

According to Reuters, Millar's Cofidis team tried to seek damages for what it viewed as harm to its image, but judge Ghislaine Polge threw out the request, saying "Through its involvement in professional cycling, its established knowledge of doping and the absence of significant measures to eliminate it, Cofidis could not have been unaware of the well-known doping phenomenon or of its magnitude.

You have to love that. Judical ruling on the state of doping in the sport. It would seem to make suing athletes when they test positive impossible unless the team can show they made an active effort to stop doing.
 

poulidor

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Bro Deal said:
So, all a pro has to do is not blow as much as he is capable of and tell the doctor he sometimes has difficulty breathing? I was hoping for something like lung biopsy or visuals from some sort of scoped view of the lung tissue. It seems to me that the TUEs that are issued are not worth the paper they are printed on. The Tour has good reason to question these.

If the UCI were serious about doping, they would use much stricter diagnosis guidlines that what is used for Joe Public by his family physician.
Especially when you know salbutamol is used to mask amphetamine, but obviously no rider knows that. :rolleyes:
 

whiteboytrash

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poulidor said:
Especially when you know salbutamol is used to mask amphetamine, but obviously no rider knows that. :rolleyes:
Also used as a substtue for coristone.... I have asthma and I can say salbutamol works a treat... espeially when I can't breath....... one might remember that when Beloki rode for the BRIOCHES LA BOULANGERE French team that they wouldn't let him use it or allow a medical cerfitcate.........
 

obxbes

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jhuskey said:
Periero should have been investigated when his blood was mixed up with Hamiltons a few years ago.
.............Dang, did I post that out-loud?


I here Barry Bonds has an exemptive medical letter for his steroid use. If you can justify using steroids for a medical condition I think me might have the sickest atheletes in history.
 

fscyclist

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Bro Deal said:
Here's a question. How do you diagnose asthma? Is there something objective that can be looked at? Or is it one of these things like Viagra where people tell the doctor the little guy is lethargic and wink at the doctor, he winks back and writes out a prescription?
Pulmonary function testing can help diagnose asthma, but in many cases it is inconclusive because the patient isn't having asthmatic symptoms at the time of the test. In cases of mild or exercise induced asthma the diagnosis is made by history and the fact that a bronchodilator will relieve all the symptoms.

If there is a real question regarding the diagnosis, you can perform a methacholine challenge. The patient breathes in a mixture of methacholine which will precipitate bronchoconstriction in asthmatics. If the pulmonary function drops by 20% then that is a positive test. The test does produce false positives (is positive even in patients without asthma), but if someone's history is consistent with asthma and the test is positive it's pretty conclusive. Methacholine challenge testing isn't performed all that frequently because it does carry some risk to it. It can precipitate a severe attack in an asthmatic which of course could be dangerous. It wouldn't be given to a patient with a known history/clear diagnosis of asthma. Many times it is given to patients trying to prove they do NOT have asthma.

You can also perform an exercise challenge, where pulmonary function is measured while the patient exercises. A drop in function would indicate exercise induced asthma, the condition most athletes have. This is not a very sensitive test (a lot of false negatives).

When I first read the article I wondered what tests the French were looking for, and I suspect they want some sort of formal pulmonary function testing. The problem is, even if it is negative, it doesn't mean that Pereiro doesn't have asthma.

Frankly, I never understood any of the controversy over bronchodilators. They keep your airways open and increase your heart rate for a few minutes after you take it. An asthmatic, even one with the most mild of symptoms, would require one in order to compete since even the slightest drop in pulmonary function can have a dramatic effect on performance. If a non-asthmatic were taking it, it would have limited to no benefit.

Someone mentioned it was a masking agent for amphetamines. I was not aware of this, but if true, then I can understand some of the controversy surrounding it.
 

Bro Deal

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Tim Lamkin said:
Sure why not :rolleyes:
Is that supposed to mean something? Or are you still incapable of stringing together more than a one sentence fragment and try to hide your inability by ending all your short, meaningless posts with emoticons, as though they convey something you are too inarticulate to put into words?
 

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