OT: Damsel, Ophelia, I Need a Mom



"Ranee Mueller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Glitter Ninja) wrote:
>
> > Some people can do this. But some can't. My husband is able to
> > completely ignore his family (who "deserve" nothing) even when some
> > members become ill or die. I couldn't do that and even though I know my
> > parents did some horrible things when I was a child, when they each
> > became terminally ill I wasn't able to just dump them and go about my
> > life being smug in the knowledge that they "deserved" to be abandoned.

>
> In some ways my mom doesn't "deserve" any contact from us, and Rich
> is a perfect saint to allow her in our home after some of the things
> she's said about/done to him. However, we put up the protections we
> can, she doesn't get to have our kids at her house by herself. The
> closest we've ever come to having her watch them was while they were
> asleep and we took a walk around her neighborhood at night. She isn't
> allowed to drive them anywhere, both because of her driving and because
> she thinks we are too fastidious about things like car seats. She would
> not intentionally harm them, but she is not capable of dealing with four
> kids at once. After my upbringing, I'm not so sure she is able to deal
> with one. There is also the issue of her exposing our kids to language
> and imagery that we do not think appropriate for children their ages,
> and the fact that she actively tries to undermine the religious teaching
> we are passing on to our children.
>
> However. It would be wrong of me to just say, tough, you go through
> sickness and hardship, and we won't lift a finger to help. As much as I
> wish her support of me growing up was better, she did provide the basics
> of home, food, clothing, a decent school, and a great deal of comfort.
> I cannot deny her the same, so long as we are capable of helping. Rich
> is the oldest and I am the only, we fully expect to take care of his
> parents and my mother in their old age. We gladly take this on, even
> though we know it will be difficult, financially, emotionally and
> physically. That doesn't mean that we are jumping for joy at the
> prospect, but we both agree that it is the right thing for us to do.


I am soooo proud of you:)
 
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:24:15 GMT, "Ophelia" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Serene" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:12:26 GMT, "Ophelia" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Siobhan Perricone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>> >> On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 19:44:45 GMT, "Ophelia" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >You need to respect your Mom as you well know.
>> >>
>> >> I just don't agree with this. After children reach a certain age,

>parents
>> >> have to earn respect, just like anyone else. Being mom is not a

>license
>> >to
>> >> make your children miserable, and it does not mean they have to sit

>back
>> >> and take it.
>> >
>> >Hmm... I didn't say she had to love her.

>>
>> Nor does she have to respect her. Some people are not worthy of
>> respect. Respect is meaningless if people get it just for breathing.

>
>Not everyone feels that way.
>


How I or you feel about it doesn't affect whether or not someone else
needs to respect someone, is my point.

serene
 
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:45:35 +0000 (UTC), Cheryl Perkins
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Serene <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Nor does she have to respect her. Some people are not worthy of
>> respect. Respect is meaningless if people get it just for breathing.

>
>Not necessarily. It's not an either/or thing - I can respect someone's
>physical courage while not particularly respecting his or her choice to
>demonstrate it by participating in extreme sports. It's also partly a
>matter of choice - you choose to think some people are not worthy of
>respect, I choose to think that every human is worthy of at least a basic
>level of respect.


Right, but I don't think that's what we were talking about. I think
there was a "you gotta show her some extra respect because she's your
mom" message, and that's what I was addressing.

serene
 
"Serene" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:24:15 GMT, "Ophelia" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Serene" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:12:26 GMT, "Ophelia" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"Siobhan Perricone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >news:[email protected]...
> >> >> On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 19:44:45 GMT, "Ophelia" <[email protected]>

wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >You need to respect your Mom as you well know.
> >> >>
> >> >> I just don't agree with this. After children reach a certain age,

> >parents
> >> >> have to earn respect, just like anyone else. Being mom is not a

> >license
> >> >to
> >> >> make your children miserable, and it does not mean they have to sit

> >back
> >> >> and take it.
> >> >
> >> >Hmm... I didn't say she had to love her.
> >>
> >> Nor does she have to respect her. Some people are not worthy of
> >> respect. Respect is meaningless if people get it just for breathing.

> >
> >Not everyone feels that way.
> >

>
> How I or you feel about it doesn't affect whether or not someone else
> needs to respect someone, is my point.


Agreed! But we are being subjective here and discussing how Ranee feels,
in her own situation.
 
"Serene" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:45:35 +0000 (UTC), Cheryl Perkins
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Serene <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Nor does she have to respect her. Some people are not worthy of
> >> respect. Respect is meaningless if people get it just for breathing.

> >
> >Not necessarily. It's not an either/or thing - I can respect someone's
> >physical courage while not particularly respecting his or her choice to
> >demonstrate it by participating in extreme sports. It's also partly a
> >matter of choice - you choose to think some people are not worthy of
> >respect, I choose to think that every human is worthy of at least a basic
> >level of respect.

>
> Right, but I don't think that's what we were talking about. I think
> there was a "you gotta show her some extra respect because she's your
> mom" message, and that's what I was addressing.


Yes indeed! I understand your point but we are talking about a particular
person and her feelings!
 
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:32:02 +0000 (UTC), Cheryl Perkins
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I eventually put my finger on what had been bothering me for years about
>'you have to earn my respect' view. That's allowing my respect to be
>determined by someone else's ability to figure out what kind of behaviour
>I respect and that person's willingness or ability to show or at least
>mimic that behaviour. I think it's much more reasonable to treat everyone
>with respect, and simply modify my interactions to with specific
>individuals if they turn out to be untrustworthy or unkind.


That works for me, and doesn't contradict my feeling that people are
not automatically entitled to special treatment just because they're
related to me.

serene
 
Serene <[email protected]> wrote:

> That works for me, and doesn't contradict my feeling that people are
> not automatically entitled to special treatment just because they're
> related to me.


Well, it depends on the relatives; I've got scores I haven't seen in
years, if ever.

But I do think that it's important to keep up some kind of connection with
the close relatives, even the ones who are a real effort to deal with.
There's a history that I will never have with anyone else. Even the bad
bits are important to understand and learn to live with because that's
part of what made me who I am. That means my relatives (or at least the
immediate ones) are automatically entitled to special treatment because
they're related to me, and I'll make much more of an effort to work
through any problems with them than I will if the problems are with some
temporary help at work or a neighbour I rarely even see.

--
Cheryl
 
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 23:37:58 +0000 (UTC), Cheryl Perkins
<[email protected]> wrote:

>But I do think that it's important to keep up some kind of connection with
>the close relatives, even the ones who are a real effort to deal with.
>There's a history that I will never have with anyone else. Even the bad
>bits are important to understand and learn to live with because that's
>part of what made me who I am. That means my relatives (or at least the
>immediate ones) are automatically entitled to special treatment because
>they're related to me, and I'll make much more of an effort to work
>through any problems with them than I will if the problems are with some
>temporary help at work or a neighbour I rarely even see.


I have an ex-brother and an ex-sister. So much less stress and drama
this way!

Carol
--

Some people are like Slinkies... they don't really have a purpose but
they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.

Stolen from "traid" on the IRC
 
"Ranee Mueller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> We still think it is important to have some contact with her, even
> though it is minimal. She is my mother, and my only nearby family, I am
> her only child and she lives alone. She has a lot of problems that are
> mostly her own doing, but I do owe her some honor as my mother, and I am
> trying.



I think you sound like a wonderful daughter, you have a wonderful way of
looking at things. It's a shame she doesn't appreciate you more.

Jen