OT: Data Mining RBT - need a great sound source for new noise-cancelling headphones



"Jay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:d54f4f7c-2809-47d7-9848-e4e5b7e6dc12@m34g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

>Tonight, I will know how well this radio receives a signal from the
>satellite, from inside the train and bus. If GPS is any indication, I
>know my Garmin can connect OK.

You do know that radios typically don't recieve signals from satellite, but
rather from fixed aerials? They were around for quite a long time before the
Germans sorted rocketry during the last world war...

The chances of receiving a signal are more to do with the frequency - and
GPS works at a rather different frequency to radio. OTOH if you can get a
GPS signal, chances are you'll be able to get radio.

(The consumer devices I know served by satellite are GPS (obviously - from
low orbiting ones), satellite TV (from geostationary ones a long way up
above the equator - needs a big aerial) and satellite phones (low orbiting
ones again, and pretty rare compared to terrestrial mobile phones). And
google map's satellite photo imagery is actually conventional aerial
photography...)

cheers,
clive
 
Clive George wrote:
> [...]
> (The consumer devices I know served by satellite are GPS (obviously -
> from low orbiting ones), satellite TV (from geostationary ones a long
> way up above the equator - needs a big aerial) and satellite phones (low
> orbiting ones again, and pretty rare compared to terrestrial mobile
> phones). And google map's satellite photo imagery is actually
> conventional aerial photography...)
>
Certainly the higher resolution imagery on Goggle Maps [1] is from
aerial photographs, but the low resolution imagery [2] in less developed
areas appears to be from satellite photography.

[1] Example at
<http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=cheeseville,+wi&ie=UTF8&ll=43.470596,-88.075805&spn=0.013641,0.029182&t=h&z=15>.
[2] Some of both; top portion is satellite photo, bottom portion is
aerial photo:
<http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=mercer,+wi&ie=UTF8&ll=46.162058,-90.064201&spn=0.026038,0.058365&t=h&z=14>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 
On Mar 2, 2:29 pm, Ben C <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2008-03-02, Jay <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I have just bought a pair of noise cancelling headphones, for the bus and
> > train legs of my daily commute. I really need to muffle the sound of the
> > chit chat, mostly on the bus, to preserve what is left of my sanity.
>
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OMKR8E/ref=cm_rdp_product
>
> It will cancel the rumbling of the bus and the train but unfortunately
> you will hear most of the chit chat loud and clear.
>
> It can only work out the antinoise based on being able to predict what
> will come next. That's easy for the continuous hum of an engine, but not
> possible for the gibbering sounds produced by the other passengers.
>
> If the earpieces were quite thick and you could put the microphone and
> speaker 4cm apart then you'd have 0.0001s in which to generate the
> antinoise. That's easily enough time for a computer to work out the
> antinoise in, but actually getting the speaker to respond that quickly
> may be more of a problem. As far as I know the technology to do this
> doesn't exist yet.

I don't think that is really how noise canceling headphones
work. That is, I don't believe predictive power is the limitation
on canceling high frequency noise. It is decorrelation of
phase between the sensor and the ear. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_noise_control

AFAICT, NC headphones have trouble with high frequency
noise in general, not just people's speech. Engine hum is
fairly low frequency. The electrical signals in a NC system
travel much faster than sound, which suggests that
predictive speed is not a problem, and the speaker does have
response at about the frequency you are trying to cancel.

One way of looking at this is that if you were trying to
generate antinoise with an 0.0001sec lag time, that
corresponds to 10,000 Hz, which is fairly far up in the
human hearing range. The power in most human speech
is lower frequency, so it isn't changing rapidly at 10 kHz,
and you shouldn't need a system with quite that high
bandwidth.

In the hypothetical you mentioned, with a sensor 4cm
away from the ear, the sensor will hear some combination
of sound waves, which arrive from several different
directions. Consider 2000 Hz background sounds. The
speed of sound is ~344 m/s and the wavelength of a
2000 Hz signal is 17 cm. Thus, your ear is about 1/4
wavelength separated from the sensor. If you just
generated the opposite of whatever the sensor heard,
it would be 1/4 wave offset from what you want. The
problem is that you can't predict whether it's ahead
or behind, because you don't know which direction the
sound is coming from, and it probably is several signals
from multiple directions.

This suggests that you really want the mike as _close_
to your ear as possible to minimize the phase error
between mike and ear, and in fact that is how NC
headphones are made. For 100 Hz noise, the wavelength
is 340 cm and the phase lag caused by having the mike
2-3cm outside your eardrum is pretty small, which is
why NC headphones work well at 100 Hz.

An enterprising person (Carl Fogel?) could test this
by testing whether NC headphones reduce noise
from low-frequency, non-steady sources. I tried this
unscientifically by stomping on the floor while wearing
NC headphones (video will be on Youtube soon, I'm
sure) and they do have an effect on transient low-freq
noise. Perhaps Dr. Fogel could test this by wearing
NC headphones to a concert - rock or classical, as
long as it has a bass drum.

Anyway, that's today's lesson in applied interferometry.
And to think they told me I didn't learn anything
practical at the radio telescope.

Ben
 
On 2008-03-08, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 2, 2:29 pm, Ben C <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 2008-03-02, Jay <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > I have just bought a pair of noise cancelling headphones, for the bus and
>> > train legs of my daily commute. I really need to muffle the sound of the
>> > chit chat, mostly on the bus, to preserve what is left of my sanity.
>>
>> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OMKR8E/ref=cm_rdp_product
>>
>> It will cancel the rumbling of the bus and the train but unfortunately
>> you will hear most of the chit chat loud and clear.
>>
>> It can only work out the antinoise based on being able to predict what
>> will come next. That's easy for the continuous hum of an engine, but not
>> possible for the gibbering sounds produced by the other passengers.
>>
>> If the earpieces were quite thick and you could put the microphone and
>> speaker 4cm apart then you'd have 0.0001s in which to generate the
>> antinoise. That's easily enough time for a computer to work out the
>> antinoise in, but actually getting the speaker to respond that quickly
>> may be more of a problem. As far as I know the technology to do this
>> doesn't exist yet.
>
> I don't think that is really how noise canceling headphones
> work. That is, I don't believe predictive power is the limitation
> on canceling high frequency noise. It is decorrelation of
> phase between the sensor and the ear.

You may be right-- I was only guessing at how these things work.

> See
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_noise_control
>
> AFAICT, NC headphones have trouble with high frequency
> noise in general, not just people's speech. Engine hum is
> fairly low frequency. The electrical signals in a NC system
> travel much faster than sound, which suggests that
> predictive speed is not a problem, and the speaker does have
> response at about the frequency you are trying to cancel.
>
> One way of looking at this is that if you were trying to
> generate antinoise with an 0.0001sec lag time, that
> corresponds to 10,000 Hz, which is fairly far up in the
> human hearing range. The power in most human speech
> is lower frequency, so it isn't changing rapidly at 10 kHz,
> and you shouldn't need a system with quite that high
> bandwidth.
>
> In the hypothetical you mentioned, with a sensor 4cm
> away from the ear, the sensor will hear some combination
> of sound waves, which arrive from several different
> directions. Consider 2000 Hz background sounds. The
> speed of sound is ~344 m/s and the wavelength of a
> 2000 Hz signal is 17 cm. Thus, your ear is about 1/4
> wavelength separated from the sensor. If you just
> generated the opposite of whatever the sensor heard,
> it would be 1/4 wave offset from what you want. The
> problem is that you can't predict whether it's ahead
> or behind, because you don't know which direction the
> sound is coming from, and it probably is several signals
> from multiple directions.

Why does it matter which direction it came from? That gives you a delay
and phase difference between your two ears, but I'm assuming you have an
independent sensor and anti-noise generator on each earpiece.
 
"Clive George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:d54f4f7c-2809-47d7-9848-e4e5b7e6dc12@m34g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Tonight, I will know how well this radio receives a signal from the
>>satellite, from inside the train and bus. If GPS is any indication, I
>>know my Garmin can connect OK.
>
> You do know that radios typically don't recieve signals from satellite,
> but rather from fixed aerials? They were around for quite a long time
> before the Germans sorted rocketry during the last world war...
>
> The chances of receiving a signal are more to do with the frequency - and
> GPS works at a rather different frequency to radio. OTOH if you can get a
> GPS signal, chances are you'll be able to get radio.
>
> (The consumer devices I know served by satellite are GPS (obviously - from
> low orbiting ones), satellite TV (from geostationary ones a long way up
> above the equator - needs a big aerial) and satellite phones (low orbiting
> ones again, and pretty rare compared to terrestrial mobile phones). And
> google map's satellite photo imagery is actually conventional aerial
> photography...)
>
> cheers,
> clive
Where are these fixed aerials? Are they like the pics on this page? I wonder
if there is a map of them somewhere online.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_masts_and_towers

I was assuming the radio signal is received directly by my portable radio,
from a satellite. But now that I have read the product documentation more
carefully, it says:

"Go outside and make sure there are no obstructions between you and the sky.
If you live in a city where Sirius has ground transmitters, you may be able
to receive a signal indoors."

I have a 'Sirius SLH1 Stiletto Home Kit' on order from Amazon.com. My house
is just single-story wood frame, shingle roof. Hopefully the antenna
included in the kit will give me a good signal.

There are some Sirius radio stations which are only available through a
satellite connection, not online, not wireless Internet (Wi-Fi).

J.
 
"Jay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Clive George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:d54f4f7c-2809-47d7-9848-e4e5b7e6dc12@m34g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>Tonight, I will know how well this radio receives a signal from the
>>>satellite, from inside the train and bus. If GPS is any indication, I
>>>know my Garmin can connect OK.
>>
>> You do know that radios typically don't recieve signals from satellite,
>> but rather from fixed aerials? They were around for quite a long time
>> before the Germans sorted rocketry during the last world war...
>>
>> The chances of receiving a signal are more to do with the frequency - and
>> GPS works at a rather different frequency to radio. OTOH if you can get a
>> GPS signal, chances are you'll be able to get radio.
>>
>> (The consumer devices I know served by satellite are GPS (obviously -
>> from low orbiting ones), satellite TV (from geostationary ones a long way
>> up above the equator - needs a big aerial) and satellite phones (low
>> orbiting ones again, and pretty rare compared to terrestrial mobile
>> phones). And google map's satellite photo imagery is actually
>> conventional aerial photography...)
>>
>> cheers,
>> clive
> Where are these fixed aerials? Are they like the pics on this page? I
> wonder if there is a map of them somewhere online.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_masts_and_towers
>
> I was assuming the radio signal is received directly by my portable radio,
> from a satellite. But now that I have read the product documentation more
> carefully, it says:
>
> "Go outside and make sure there are no obstructions between you and the
> sky. If you live in a city where Sirius has ground transmitters, you may
> be able to receive a signal indoors."
>
> I have a 'Sirius SLH1 Stiletto Home Kit' on order from Amazon.com. My
> house is just single-story wood frame, shingle roof. Hopefully the antenna
> included in the kit will give me a good signal.
>
> There are some Sirius radio stations which are only available through a
> satellite connection, not online, not wireless Internet (Wi-Fi).

Blimey, ok, I'll take that back. Don't get such things this side of the
pond.

cheers,
clive
 
On Mar 8, 11:23 am, "Clive George" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> >> (The consumer devices I know served by satellite are GPS (obviously -
> >> from low orbiting ones), satellite TV (from geostationary ones a long way
> >> up above the equator - needs a big aerial) and satellite phones (low
> >> orbiting ones again, and pretty rare compared to terrestrial mobile
> >> phones). And google map's satellite photo imagery is actually
> >> conventional aerial photography...)
>
> >> cheers,
> >> clive
> > Where are these fixed aerials? Are they like the pics on this page? I
> > wonder if there is a map of them somewhere online.
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_masts_and_towers
>
> > I was assuming the radio signal is received directly by my portable radio,
> > from a satellite. But now that I have read the product documentation more
> > carefully, it says:
>
> > "Go outside and make sure there are no obstructions between you and the
> > sky. If you live in a city where Sirius has ground transmitters, you may
> > be able to receive a signal indoors."
>
> > I have a 'Sirius SLH1 Stiletto Home Kit' on order from Amazon.com. My
> > house is just single-story wood frame, shingle roof. Hopefully the antenna
> > included in the kit will give me a good signal.
>
> > There are some Sirius radio stations which are only available through a
> > satellite connection, not online, not wireless Internet (Wi-Fi).
>
> Blimey, ok, I'll take that back. Don't get such things this side of the
> pond.
>

We have Sirius and XM radios, which are very popular for cars. Waves
come directly from space. In addition, there are TV receivers which
also pick up from geosynchrous satellites. I have DirecTV, which uses
a small dish pointed at the stars, and which has a tie in with XM so
that on channel 812 right now I got Bluegrass Junction playing. Banjo
music from outer space. You can likely beat that, Bovril on tap or
something equally localized.
 
"landotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:d98f7c5e-71a0-43a6-95e6-f7656e6437a6@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>
>
> We have Sirius and XM radios, which are very popular for cars. Waves
> come directly from space. In addition, there are TV receivers which
> also pick up from geosynchrous satellites. I have DirecTV, which uses
> a small dish pointed at the stars, and which has a tie in with XM so
> that on channel 812 right now I got Bluegrass Junction playing. Banjo
> music from outer space. You can likely beat that, Bovril on tap or
> something equally localized.
>
>
I have since found out, Sirius uses terrestrial repeaters, which I believe
are lattice towers ~ 130' tall. There are five such towers in the Chicago
area.

http://www.dogstarradio.com/sirius_map.php

J.
 
Jay Bollyn wrote:
> "landotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:d98f7c5e-71a0-43a6-95e6-f7656e6437a6@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> We have Sirius and XM radios, which are very popular for cars. Waves
>> come directly from space. In addition, there are TV receivers which
>> also pick up from geosynchrous satellites. I have DirecTV, which uses
>> a small dish pointed at the stars, and which has a tie in with XM so
>> that on channel 812 right now I got Bluegrass Junction playing. Banjo
>> music from outer space. You can likely beat that, Bovril on tap or
>> something equally localized.
>>
>>
> I have since found out, Sirius uses terrestrial repeaters, which I believe
> are lattice towers ~ 130' tall. There are five such towers in the Chicago
> area.
>
> http://www.dogstarradio.com/sirius_map.php
>
Look more closely. For example, Terrestrial Repeater 107 at a height of
998 feet [1] is likely a co-location on the roof of Two Prudential Plaza
[2] [3].

[1]<http://www.dogstarradio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Terrestrial_Repeater_107>.
[2]
<http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=41.885244,+-87.621614&ie=UTF8&ll=41.885825,-87.621589&spn=0.003498,0.007296&t=k&z=17>.
[3] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Prudential_Plaza>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 
"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>> http://www.dogstarradio.com/sirius_map.php
>>
> Look more closely. For example, Terrestrial Repeater 107 at a height of
> 998 feet [1] is likely a co-location on the roof of Two Prudential Plaza
> [2] [3].
>
> [1]<http://www.dogstarradio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Terrestrial_Repeater_107>.
> [2]
> <http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=41.885244,+-87.621614&ie=UTF8&ll=41.885825,-87.621589&spn=0.003498,0.007296&t=k&z=17>.
> [3] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Prudential_Plaza>.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
>
>
I was looking more closely at TR_110, which appears to be near the
intersection of the Tri-State, and Northwest tollways (sorry, I don't do
'Jane Addams Tollway'). This is closer to my house. I don't have a quick way
to translate long/lat coordinates into a street address, and further, I
refuse to think that hard on Sat.

"This repeater is located at coordinates of 41.990925, -87.859631. The
height of this repeater is 130 feet. "


http://www.dogstarradio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Terrestrial_Repeater_110

I suspect one day, the roof space of those tall buildings will be more
valuable, than the building itself. Just a hunch.

J.
 
Jay Bollyn wrote:
> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>> http://www.dogstarradio.com/sirius_map.php
>>>
>> Look more closely. For example, Terrestrial Repeater 107 at a height of
>> 998 feet [1] is likely a co-location on the roof of Two Prudential Plaza
>> [2] [3].
>>
>> [1]<http://www.dogstarradio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Terrestrial_Repeater_107>.
>> [2]
>> <http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=41.885244,+-87.621614&ie=UTF8&ll=41.885825,-87.621589&spn=0.003498,0.007296&t=k&z=17>.
>> [3] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Prudential_Plaza>.
>>
>>
> I was looking more closely at TR_110, which appears to be near the
> intersection of the Tri-State, and Northwest tollways (sorry, I don't do
> 'Jane Addams Tollway'). This is closer to my house. I don't have a quick way
> to translate long/lat coordinates into a street address, and further, I
> refuse to think that hard on Sat.
>
Go here and paste the lat/long coordinates in the search box:
<http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl>.

My guess is TR 110 is a co-location on top of the elevated spheroidal
water tank in the southwest quadrant of Route 72/West Higgins Road and
Des Plaines River Road.

See
<http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=41.990925,+-87.859631&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=41.990238,-87.860729&spn=0.001746,0.003648&z=18>.

> "This repeater is located at coordinates of 41.990925, -87.859631. The
> height of this repeater is 130 feet. "
>
>
> http://www.dogstarradio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Terrestrial_Repeater_110
>
> I suspect one day, the roof space of those tall buildings will be more
> valuable, than the building itself. Just a hunch.
>
Transmitter co-locations is currently a booming business.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 
"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
> Go here and paste the lat/long coordinates in the search box:
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl>.
>
> My guess is TR 110 is a co-location on top of the elevated spheroidal
> water tank in the southwest quadrant of Route 72/West Higgins Road and Des
> Plaines River Road.
>
> See
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=41.990925,+-87.859631&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=41.990238,-87.860729&spn=0.001746,0.003648&z=18>.
>
>> "This repeater is located at coordinates of 41.990925, -87.859631. The
>> height of this repeater is 130 feet. "
>>
>>
>> http://www.dogstarradio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Terrestrial_Repeater_110
>>
>> I suspect one day, the roof space of those tall buildings will be more
>> valuable, than the building itself. Just a hunch.
>>
> Transmitter co-locations is currently a booming business.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
>
>
OK...it looks like that location is a stone's throw from the PACE bus
terminal / Rosemont Blue Line stop. I got virtually no terrestrial signal
from my radio yesterday, at that location. I did get a stronger terrestrial
signal when we passed by O'hare airport, westbound on the NW tollway.

I agree, there are lots of roof-mounted antennae in that area. Closer to my
home, there are a few lattice towers. Some obviously radio (labelled so,
very tall, guy wires); others are much shorter, with round things near the
top. I have always thought they had to do with line-of-sight microwave
signals, but I could be dead wrong (and have often been so).

J.
 
"landotter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:d98f7c5e-71a0-43a6-95e6-f7656e6437a6@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 8, 11:23 am, "Clive George" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>> >> (The consumer devices I know served by satellite are GPS (obviously -
>> >> from low orbiting ones), satellite TV (from geostationary ones a long
>> >> way
>> >> up above the equator - needs a big aerial) and satellite phones (low
>> >> orbiting ones again, and pretty rare compared to terrestrial mobile
>> >> phones). And google map's satellite photo imagery is actually
>> >> conventional aerial photography...)
>>
>> >> cheers,
>> >> clive
>> > Where are these fixed aerials? Are they like the pics on this page? I
>> > wonder if there is a map of them somewhere online.
>>
>> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_masts_and_towers
>>
>> > I was assuming the radio signal is received directly by my portable
>> > radio,
>> > from a satellite. But now that I have read the product documentation
>> > more
>> > carefully, it says:
>>
>> > "Go outside and make sure there are no obstructions between you and the
>> > sky. If you live in a city where Sirius has ground transmitters, you
>> > may
>> > be able to receive a signal indoors."
>>
>> > I have a 'Sirius SLH1 Stiletto Home Kit' on order from Amazon.com. My
>> > house is just single-story wood frame, shingle roof. Hopefully the
>> > antenna
>> > included in the kit will give me a good signal.
>>
>> > There are some Sirius radio stations which are only available through a
>> > satellite connection, not online, not wireless Internet (Wi-Fi).
>>
>> Blimey, ok, I'll take that back. Don't get such things this side of the
>> pond.
>>
>
> We have Sirius and XM radios, which are very popular for cars. Waves
> come directly from space. In addition, there are TV receivers which
> also pick up from geosynchrous satellites. I have DirecTV, which uses
> a small dish pointed at the stars, and which has a tie in with XM so
> that on channel 812 right now I got Bluegrass Junction playing. Banjo
> music from outer space. You can likely beat that, Bovril on tap or
> something equally localized.

Satellite TV over here is quite popular - provided by Rupert Murdoch :-( But
that's normally a fixed dish which is quite sensitive to alignment, so not
suitable for mobile use. I'm guessing the sirius radios use clever aerials
like GPS receivers.

(Bovril? Marmite, please. Made from beer yeast, so it must be good)

cheers,
clive
 
-snip radio waves-
Clive George wrote:
> (Bovril? Marmite, please. Made from beer yeast, so it must be good)

Is that like vegemite? An acquired taste I assume..
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
On Mar 9, 2:45 pm, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
> -snip radio waves-
>
> Clive George wrote:
> > (Bovril? Marmite, please. Made from beer yeast, so it must be good)
>
> Is that like vegemite? An acquired taste I assume..
> --

Can be eaten in the same way as Vegemite, but so can many other things
that spread similarly and have an identical color! It's basically beef
bullion paste, usually made into a drink and slurped at rugby matches
to get your electrolyte levels up before the ensuing pub slug-
fest...or so I've heard.

Speaking of foods of the Commonwealth, surely you've had:
http://tinyurl.com/26hfec
or even the thrilling:
http://harvey.nu/beans_on_toast/

Heinz Vegetarian beans are pretty close to the latter's exotic
ingredient if Madison's winter chill is necessitating a tedious
session in the kitchen.
 
"A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> -snip radio waves-
> Clive George wrote:
>> (Bovril? Marmite, please. Made from beer yeast, so it must be good)
>
> Is that like vegemite? An acquired taste I assume..

Sort of. Vegemite is an inferior Oz equivalent. And the current advertising
for marmite plays on the fact that it's very much a love/hate thing :)

cheers,
clive
 
On 2008-03-09, landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 9, 2:45 pm, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
>> -snip radio waves-
>>
>> Clive George wrote:
>> > (Bovril? Marmite, please. Made from beer yeast, so it must be good)
>>
>> Is that like vegemite? An acquired taste I assume..
>> --
>
> Can be eaten in the same way as Vegemite, but so can many other things
> that spread similarly and have an identical color! It's basically beef
> bullion paste, usually made into a drink and slurped at rugby matches
> to get your electrolyte levels up before the ensuing pub slug-
> fest...or so I've heard.

Just to clarify here: Bovril is the one that's made out of some kind of
beef slurry. Marmite is basically the same as Vegemite.

They all look the same-- like used motor oil. Bovril is more often mixed
with hot water and drunk as a hearty soup. Marmite is typically spread
on toast.
 
On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 20:48:10 -0000, "Clive George"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>> (Bovril? Marmite, please. Made from beer yeast, so it must be good)
>>
>> Is that like vegemite? An acquired taste I assume..
>
>Sort of. Vegemite is an inferior Oz equivalent.

I'm not sure they'd see it that way down there. Where's Michael
Warner when you need him?
 
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