OT: Davis Phinney foundation and Parkinson's research

[Mark & Steven Bornfeld]

I must be living in a hole, as I had not known that Davis Phinney had
been suffering with Parkinson's disease for quite some time.
A quick look around the website for his foundation

http://www.davisphinneyfoundation.com/

is unclear with specific funding priorities. Specifically, Parkinson's
disease is one of the first potential areas for research using stem
cells. This is particularly exciting, especially considering the news
out of South Korea in the past week concerning apparent therapeutic
cloning using somatic cells of patients.
This is of course a controversial area of research, and I can understand
the temptation to tread lightly. However, the news is too strong, and
the stakes too high to beat around the bush.
Does anyone know if the Phinney foundation has a position on stem cell
research, including therapeutic cloning?

Steve


--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

 

[Tom Kunich]

Steve, I don't think that it's a good idea to present "stem cells" as the
cure-all of the 21st Century.

Parkinson's is a disease of unknown origin. They do understand that it is
likely that there is some sort of connection between dopamine production and
Parkinsonian symptoms but the basal causation is unknown and what is causing
the nerve damage and brain cell deterioration is unknown and likely to be
from several interactions that aren't even suggested at the moment.

Embryo stem cells simply aren't going to perform miracles and acting as if
they're the known cure for every disease under the sun can only harm
patients who get their hopes up and ignore known (marginally effective but
effective none-the-less) treatments.

It is difficult enough for Parkinson's patients such as Davis who probably
contracted this disease from his horrendous crash in the '88 or there-abouts
without making wild claims that at best would be decades away.

I have to tell you, all of this hysteria around embryonic stem cell research
makes me wonder - if this research was all that promising, why aren't
private companies willing to invest in it themselves? After all, the only
limitations are to government funded reseach and THEN only for embryonic
stem cell research. Adult stem cell research is fully funded.


"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Umske.19352$E05.14333@trndny09...
>
> I must be living in a hole, as I had not known that Davis Phinney had been
> suffering with Parkinson's disease for quite some time.
> A quick look around the website for his foundation
>
> http://www.davisphinneyfoundation.com/
>
> is unclear with specific funding priorities. Specifically, Parkinson's
> disease is one of the first potential areas for research using stem cells.
> This is particularly exciting, especially considering the news out of
> South Korea in the past week concerning apparent therapeutic cloning using
> somatic cells of patients.
> This is of course a controversial area of research, and I can understand
> the temptation to tread lightly. However, the news is too strong, and the
> stakes too high to beat around the bush.
> Does anyone know if the Phinney foundation has a position on stem cell
> research, including therapeutic cloning?
>
> Steve
>
>
> --
> Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
> http://www.dentaltwins.com
> Brooklyn, NY
> 718-258-5001

 

[OnTwoWheels]

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Umske.19352$E05.14333@trndny09...
>
> I must be living in a hole, as I had not known that Davis Phinney had
> been suffering with Parkinson's disease for quite some time.
> A quick look around the website for his foundation
>
> http://www.davisphinneyfoundation.com/
>
> is unclear with specific funding priorities. Specifically, Parkinson's
> disease is one of the first potential areas for research using stem
> cells. This is particularly exciting, especially considering the news
> out of South Korea in the past week concerning apparent therapeutic
> cloning using somatic cells of patients.
> This is of course a controversial area of research, and I can understand
> the temptation to tread lightly. However, the news is too strong, and
> the stakes too high to beat around the bush.
> Does anyone know if the Phinney foundation has a position on stem cell
> research, including therapeutic cloning?
>
> Steve
>
>
> --
> Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
> http://www.dentaltwins.com
> Brooklyn, NY
> 718-258-5001

The only thing scarier than stem cell research and (genetic engineering in
general) is that this topic is something that I strongly agree with both
George Bush and Tom Kunich. Yikes!

 

[jj1075]

"Tom Kunich" wrote:

> Parkinson's is a disease of unknown origin. They do understand that it is
> likely that there is some sort of connection between dopamine production
> and Parkinsonian symptoms but the basal causation is unknown and what is
> causing the nerve damage and brain cell deterioration is unknown and
> likely to be from several interactions that aren't even suggested at the
> moment<<

From this statement how do you arrive at the following statement?


> It is difficult enough for Parkinson's patients such as Davis who probably
> contracted this disease from his horrendous crash in the '88 or
> there-abouts without making wild claims that at best would be decades
> away.<<

I was just wondering where you got this and if you could show me a link to
the source. Thanks.

jj1075

 

[Peter Allen]

jj1075 wrote:
> "Tom Kunich" wrote:
>> It is difficult enough for Parkinson's patients such as Davis who
>> probably contracted this disease from his horrendous crash in the
>> '88 or there-abouts without making wild claims that at best would be
>> decades away.<<
>
> I was just wondering where you got this and if you could show me a
> link to the source. Thanks.

Tom, please do not feel you need to post a picture of your ********. The
words 'I pulled it out of my ****' will be quite sufficient.

Peter

preserving RBR public decency...

 

[Steven L. Sheffield]

On 05/23/2005 09:28 PM, in article
[email protected], "jj1075"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "Tom Kunich" wrote:
>
>> Parkinson's is a disease of unknown origin. They do understand that it is
>> likely that there is some sort of connection between dopamine production
>> and Parkinsonian symptoms but the basal causation is unknown and what is
>> causing the nerve damage and brain cell deterioration is unknown and
>> likely to be from several interactions that aren't even suggested at the
>> moment<<
>
> From this statement how do you arrive at the following statement?
>
>
>> It is difficult enough for Parkinson's patients such as Davis who probably
>> contracted this disease from his horrendous crash in the '88 or
>> there-abouts without making wild claims that at best would be decades
>> away.<<
>
> I was just wondering where you got this and if you could show me a link to
> the source. Thanks.


The most recent issue of BUY-cycling magazine has an article about "The
Toughest Man in Cycling", by Dan Koeppel, that makes this same claim.

There has been indication that Parkinson's can be caused by head trauma,
which Phinney suffered when he smashed into the back of the Isoglass team
car at the 1988 Liege-Bastogne-Liege.

Repeated head trauma is also an expected reason for Muhammed Ali's own
battle with Parkinson's.

See http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2003-rst/1807.html for more info about the
suspected link.





--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [foreword] slash

 

[Steven L. Sheffield]

On 05/23/2005 03:59 PM, in article Umske.19352$E05.14333@trndny09, "Mark &
Steven Bornfeld" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> I must be living in a hole, as I had not known that Davis Phinney had
> been suffering with Parkinson's disease for quite some time.
> A quick look around the website for his foundation
>
> http://www.davisphinneyfoundation.com/
>
> is unclear with specific funding priorities. Specifically, Parkinson's
> disease is one of the first potential areas for research using stem
> cells. This is particularly exciting, especially considering the news
> out of South Korea in the past week concerning apparent therapeutic
> cloning using somatic cells of patients.
> This is of course a controversial area of research, and I can understand
> the temptation to tread lightly. However, the news is too strong, and
> the stakes too high to beat around the bush.
> Does anyone know if the Phinney foundation has a position on stem cell
> research, including therapeutic cloning?
>
> Steve
>


You could ask them. mailto:[email protected]

Keep in mind that the Davis Phinney Foundation was founded NOT by Davis and
Connie, but by Kathy Krumme and David Ariosa, proprietors of Oakley Cycles,
in Cincinnati, OH. Kathy Krumme's father Don suffers from Parkinson's.
Obviously, the foundation would have had to have the Phinney's blessing to
use his name.

One thing that irks me is how the foundation is also being used as a
marketing vehicle for Oakley Cycles.

From: http://www.davisphinneyfoundation.com/Sunflower.htm

Through The Sunflower Revolution, Davis Phinney is assuming the role of
Parkinson¹s advocate for the first time. His connection to Cincinnati is
through Kathy Krumme and David Ariosa, proprietors of Oakley Cycles, which
sells fine, made-to-measure bicycles worthy of international events like the
Tour de France. The Sunflower Revolution will be financed through the Davis
Phinney Foundation, a nonprofit 501(c)(3) organization established by Kathy
and David this year.

While I think it's very commendable for the owner's of the shop to establish
the foundation, it bothers me that every bit of text I read mentions the
name of the shop.



--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [foreword] slash

 

[Robert Chung]

Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> I must be living in a hole, as I had not known that Davis Phinney had
> been suffering with Parkinson's disease for quite some time.

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/6232.0.html

 

[Mark & Steven Bornfeld]

Steven L. Sheffield wrote:

> On 05/23/2005 03:59 PM, in article Umske.19352$E05.14333@trndny09, "Mark &
> Steven Bornfeld" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>I must be living in a hole, as I had not known that Davis Phinney had
>>been suffering with Parkinson's disease for quite some time.
>>A quick look around the website for his foundation
>>
>>http://www.davisphinneyfoundation.com/
>>
>>is unclear with specific funding priorities. Specifically, Parkinson's
>>disease is one of the first potential areas for research using stem
>>cells. This is particularly exciting, especially considering the news
>>out of South Korea in the past week concerning apparent therapeutic
>>cloning using somatic cells of patients.
>>This is of course a controversial area of research, and I can understand
>>the temptation to tread lightly. However, the news is too strong, and
>>the stakes too high to beat around the bush.
>>Does anyone know if the Phinney foundation has a position on stem cell
>>research, including therapeutic cloning?
>>
>>Steve
>>
>
>
>
> You could ask them. mailto:[email protected]
>
> Keep in mind that the Davis Phinney Foundation was founded NOT by Davis and
> Connie, but by Kathy Krumme and David Ariosa, proprietors of Oakley Cycles,
> in Cincinnati, OH. Kathy Krumme's father Don suffers from Parkinson's.
> Obviously, the foundation would have had to have the Phinney's blessing to
> use his name.
>
> One thing that irks me is how the foundation is also being used as a
> marketing vehicle for Oakley Cycles.
>
> From: http://www.davisphinneyfoundation.com/Sunflower.htm
>
> Through The Sunflower Revolution, Davis Phinney is assuming the role of
> Parkinson¹s advocate for the first time. His connection to Cincinnati is
> through Kathy Krumme and David Ariosa, proprietors of Oakley Cycles, which
> sells fine, made-to-measure bicycles worthy of international events like the
> Tour de France. The Sunflower Revolution will be financed through the Davis
> Phinney Foundation, a nonprofit 501(c)(3) organization established by Kathy
> and David this year.
>
> While I think it's very commendable for the owner's of the shop to establish
> the foundation, it bothers me that every bit of text I read mentions the
> name of the shop.
>
>
>

Thanks for this. Obviously, I didn't read the website carefully
itself, and also obviously I shouldn't necessarily read any
philosophical slant there as being 100% from Phinney.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

 

[Mark & Steven Bornfeld]

Robert Chung wrote:

> Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>
>>I must be living in a hole, as I had not known that Davis Phinney had
>>been suffering with Parkinson's disease for quite some time.
>
>
> http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/6232.0.html
>
>
>

Amazing. Even ill, he looks so much as he did during his racing
days--as does Connie.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

 

[Mark & Steven Bornfeld]

Tom Kunich wrote:

> Steve, I don't think that it's a good idea to present "stem cells" as the
> cure-all of the 21st Century.
>
> Parkinson's is a disease of unknown origin. They do understand that it is
> likely that there is some sort of connection between dopamine production and
> Parkinsonian symptoms but the basal causation is unknown and what is causing
> the nerve damage and brain cell deterioration is unknown and likely to be
> from several interactions that aren't even suggested at the moment.
>
> Embryo stem cells simply aren't going to perform miracles and acting as if
> they're the known cure for every disease under the sun can only harm
> patients who get their hopes up and ignore known (marginally effective but
> effective none-the-less) treatments.
>
> It is difficult enough for Parkinson's patients such as Davis who probably
> contracted this disease from his horrendous crash in the '88 or there-abouts
> without making wild claims that at best would be decades away.
>
> I have to tell you, all of this hysteria around embryonic stem cell research
> makes me wonder - if this research was all that promising, why aren't
> private companies willing to invest in it themselves? After all, the only
> limitations are to government funded reseach and THEN only for embryonic
> stem cell research. Adult stem cell research is fully funded.

What is an "adult stem cell"?
The hysteria here is not from the scientists, but from the religious
right. Private companies have funded stem cell research. This was in
the NY Times on Sunday:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/23/nyregion/23stem.html

What is not legal is therapeutic cloning, which can actually produce
stem cells from a patient who needs them. I'm sure you can see the
advantage of getting stem cells matched to the genotype of the patient
who needs them, rather than the small number of cell lines authorized by
our researcher-in-chief.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

 

[David Patnaude]

"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:BEB86286.1CF4E%[email protected]:

> On 05/23/2005 09:28 PM, in article
> [email protected], "jj1075"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Tom Kunich" wrote:
>>
>>> Parkinson's is a disease of unknown origin. They do understand that
>>> it is likely that there is some sort of connection between dopamine
>>> production and Parkinsonian symptoms but the basal causation is
>>> unknown and what is causing the nerve damage and brain cell
>>> deterioration is unknown and likely to be from several interactions
>>> that aren't even suggested at the moment<<
>>
>> From this statement how do you arrive at the following statement?
>>
>>
>>> It is difficult enough for Parkinson's patients such as Davis who
>>> probably contracted this disease from his horrendous crash in the
>>> '88 or there-abouts without making wild claims that at best would be
>>> decades away.<<
>>
>> I was just wondering where you got this and if you could show me a
>> link to
>> the source. Thanks.
>
>
> The most recent issue of BUY-cycling magazine has an article about
> "The Toughest Man in Cycling", by Dan Koeppel, that makes this same
> claim.
>
The article did not make that claim. It stated that the early symptoms of
Parkinson's disease were thought to be after effects of the crash rather
than Parkinson's disease which was diagnosed later as symptoms became
worse.

 

[Tom Kunich]

Steve,

Adult stem cells are generally filtered from blood. They are about one
out of every million cells in blood. But since there are about a
million cells in a small drop of blood you can see that they are fairly
easy to come by. Other adult stem cells come from nerves (most notibly
in the brain) muscles etc.

Adult stem cells are only partially differentiated cells which are
slightly different than embryonic stem cells. However, this partial
differentiation is important because we don't have a clue what causes
the full differentiation and there's no particular advantage to using
fully undifferentiated cells from embryos.

Moreover, their derivation from blood or other areas means that we
don't need to use aborted fetuses or cast off blastocysts (rather awful
name for one of the multiple fetuses that are simply killed when doing
invitro fertilizations.

There is a great deal of ethical and moral questions surrounding the
use of embryonic stem cells and in my opinion it is highly suspect to
that certain political forces are attempting to build an industry
around killed fetuses.

 

[Robert Chung]

Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> What is an "adult stem cell"?

Chapter 4: http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/scireport/

 

[Mark & Steven Bornfeld]

Tom Kunich wrote:

> Steve,
>
> Adult stem cells are generally filtered from blood. They are about one
> out of every million cells in blood. But since there are about a
> million cells in a small drop of blood you can see that they are fairly
> easy to come by. Other adult stem cells come from nerves (most notibly
> in the brain) muscles etc.
>
> Adult stem cells are only partially differentiated cells which are
> slightly different than embryonic stem cells. However, this partial
> differentiation is important because we don't have a clue what causes
> the full differentiation and there's no particular advantage to using
> fully undifferentiated cells from embryos.
>
> Moreover, their derivation from blood or other areas means that we
> don't need to use aborted fetuses or cast off blastocysts (rather awful
> name for one of the multiple fetuses that are simply killed when doing
> invitro fertilizations.
>
> There is a great deal of ethical and moral questions surrounding the
> use of embryonic stem cells and in my opinion it is highly suspect to
> that certain political forces are attempting to build an industry
> around killed fetuses.
>

Strictly speaking, pluripotential cells are NOT stem cells. Of course,
if it turns out that pluripotential cells can be used to (for example)
regenerate nerve axons, the difference may not matter in this PARTICULAR
context.
I don't disagree that there are important ethical issues here. I
think it is also likely that I would disagree with you about them, but
my intent was not a troll, and you (and the religious right, for that
matter) are as entitled to your opinions as I am--as long as the
scientific debate is not framed by the religious agenda. I merely
wanted to know if the Phinney foundation had an agenda--that is all. It
is something I would want to know if I was considering contributing.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

 

[gym.gravity]

Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:

> What is an "adult stem cell"?
> The hysteria here is not from the scientists, but from the religious

> right. Private companies have funded stem cell research. This was
in
> the NY Times on Sunday:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/23/nyregion/23stem.html
>
> What is not legal is therapeutic cloning, which can actually produce

> stem cells from a patient who needs them. I'm sure you can see the
> advantage of getting stem cells matched to the genotype of the
patient
> who needs them, rather than the small number of cell lines authorized
by
> our researcher-in-chief.
>
> Steve
>

Stevo, it should be obvious from his remarks that KKKunich doesn't know
the difference between somatic cell nuclear transfer, in-vitro
fertilization, and reproductive cloning.

 

[h squared]

Tom Kunich wrote:

> Moreover, their derivation from blood or other areas means that we
> don't need to use aborted fetuses or cast off blastocysts (rather awful
> name for one of the multiple fetuses that are simply killed when doing
> invitro fertilizations.
>
> There is a great deal of ethical and moral questions surrounding the
> use of embryonic stem cells and in my opinion it is highly suspect to
> that certain political forces are attempting to build an industry
> around killed fetuses.
>

fyi, in south korea they are working on taking unfertilized eggs and
transferring a "normal" nucleus into them (removing the egg's original
nucleus). they're hoping this will cut down on rejection of transplanted
tissues. read about it in the economist if you like (although the
story's all over the place in other news papers too).

heather

 

[Mark & Steven Bornfeld]

Robert Chung wrote:

> Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>
>>What is an "adult stem cell"?
>
>
> Chapter 4: http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/scireport/
>
>
>

This is interesting reading--particularly the evidence of "plasticity"
of adult stem cells having the potential to generate tissue from another
germ level.
Personally, it is becoming harder and harder for me to accept some of
this research on face value, given the politically charged atmosphere in
which it develops.
It may well be that American scientists can in fact do tissue culture
with these materials, but right now I'd be inclined to put money on the
Koreans' autologous cloning bearing fruit sooner.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

 

[Mark & Steven Bornfeld]

gym.gravity wrote:

> Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>
>
>> What is an "adult stem cell"?
>> The hysteria here is not from the scientists, but from the religious
>
>
>>right. Private companies have funded stem cell research. This was
>
> in
>
>>the NY Times on Sunday:
>>
>>http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/23/nyregion/23stem.html
>>
>> What is not legal is therapeutic cloning, which can actually produce
>
>
>>stem cells from a patient who needs them. I'm sure you can see the
>>advantage of getting stem cells matched to the genotype of the
>
> patient
>
>>who needs them, rather than the small number of cell lines authorized
>
> by
>
>>our researcher-in-chief.
>>
>>Steve
>>
>
>
> Stevo, it should be obvious from his remarks that KKKunich doesn't know
> the difference between somatic cell nuclear transfer, in-vitro
> fertilization, and reproductive cloning.
>

It does seem that the NIH website can distinguish this though. While
the potential that adult stem cells may be able to potentially avoid the
sticky ethical issues of embryonic stem cells, the obvious bias to jump
on this idea so early surely reads like it is being driven by other than
purely scientific concerns.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

 

[Kyle Legate]

> OnTwoWheels wrote:
>
>>
>> The only thing scarier than stem cell research and (genetic
>> engineering in
>> general) is that this topic is something that I strongly agree with both
>> George Bush and Tom Kunich. Yikes!
>>
My work involves stem cells, and I am directly responsible for a
genetically engineered mouse. You may hate me now.