OT: Girl's tragic end...



"Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> A week from now you are you Partners In Sobbery here won't even remember the kid's name.

Unfortunately, I will have to remember it. I will have to use her an an example for my own children,
one day. I wish I never heard her name. I wish such things never happened in the world. It's called
compassion. You ought to try to develop some.

-L.
 
"Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
>
> Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 04:20:32 GMT, "Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]>
> > arranged random neurons, so they looked like this:
> >
> > >Why would anyone care about what happens to a total stranger - doesn't affect you and there was
> > >nothing you could have done about the
situation.
> >
> > You're pathetic. I truly hope you're never in a situation where the "kindness of strangers"
> > would be between you and calamity, but should that happen you might be a bit more appreciative
> > about being on the receiving end of a level of concern from "a total stranger."
> >
>
>
> You are pontificating about some random news event you read about in the media. Care to tell us
> how *you* could have helped that kid in Florida escape her fate? You *can't*, because you
> *couldn't* - you are simply blowing (or in you case fellating) emotional hot media air.

Surely you are not so ignorant that you confuse compassion with being able to prevent tragedy? Well,
silly question, really...since you obviously are either incapable of it or just a hairy lil troll.

>
> You can't seem to differentiate between a media event and a real - life event. Please try again -
> otherwise you appear rather a self -
aggrandizing
> cretin :)

A child is dead. That is as real as it gets.

kimberly

>
> --
> Best Greg
 
Nexis wrote:
>
> "Default User" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...

> > So you are of the opinion that the USA should start torturing prisoners? Then we can do more
> > posturing about the land of the free and the home of the brave?

> Boy you really are off on a tangent aren't you? You keep reading what people say, twisting it in
> your own mind, and then arguing with yourself. Do you realize how silly that looks?

I certainly know how silly it is that people want to throw out the American judicial processes based
on a grainy security video.

Brian Rodenborn
 
Gregory Morrow wrote:

> Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:
>
>
>>On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 04:20:32 GMT, "Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]>
>>arranged random neurons, so they looked like this:
>>
>>
>>>Why would anyone care about what happens to a total stranger - doesn't affect you and there was
>>>nothing you could have done about the situation.
>>
>>You're pathetic. I truly hope you're never in a situation where the "kindness of strangers" would
>>be between you and calamity, but should that happen you might be a bit more appreciative about
>>being on the receiving end of a level of concern from "a total stranger."
>>
>
>
>
> You are pontificating about some random news event you read about in the media. Care to tell us
> how *you* could have helped that kid in Florida escape her fate? You *can't*, because you
> *couldn't* - you are simply blowing (or in you case fellating) emotional hot media air.
>
> You can't seem to differentiate between a media event and a real - life event. Please try again -
> otherwise you appear rather a self - aggrandizing cretin :)
>

It was a real-life event, but as you correctly pointed out earlier, it became a media event because
it was a slow news day. This should have been *local* news, not national. One wonders if the same
attention would have been given if it had been an ugly child that was kidnapped and murdered.

But now it has received national news coverage, and rightly or wrongly we have been made aware of
it. Only a sociopath could be completely uncaring.

Best regards, Bob
 
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Gregory Morrow <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Nope, I just realize that it was a slow news day and this particular sob story was perfect for
> > filling up the airwaves. You aren't *that* naive,
are
> > you...???
>
> So are you really as cold-hearted and uncaring as you appear to be? If so, you're the one who has
> the problem, and those who have to deal with you on a dealy basis are probably the worse off for
> knowing you.
>

Nope, Stan, I am just practical. I suppose I could open up the obituary section of the newspaper and
start crying about all the folks that died, but what's the use? Same as in this particular FL case -
why should I waste my time "caring" about a situation that is completely anonymous and out of my
control? I have plenty of personal situations where I *can* make a difference - like during the past
year when I was a caregiver for a good friend who was dying of AIDS. Or helping to ensure that my
elderly mother (and some other older relatives) has a comfortable and useful life in her later
years. Or helping to raise $$$ for a friend of mine that had no insurance and no job and she had to
have knee surgery....or raising money for the Lesbian Community Cancer Project - just a few examples
of how I help people in the course of my daily life....

I expect better from you, Stan, than such a knee - jerk and old - womanish (to quote Sheldon)
reaction. Has your good friend Sheryl Rosen been coaching you on what to say about me? But then you
are just about the biggest gutless and boring no - feeling nerd on this newsgroup, so I guess I
don't expect better from you. Itguess it won't be very long until your IQ dips down into the single
- digit levels. It's been hovering down there for a whiles now.

Have a nice day, Stanley :)

--
Best Greg
 
On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 09:30:52 +1300, Miche <[email protected]>
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, "Tank" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "John Gaughan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> >
>> > While the man is obviously guilty, he deserves all the rights that any other U.S. citizen has
>> > -- the right to a fair trial, right to appeal, right to humane treatment, et al.
>> >
>> > More importantly, any capital or otherwise irreversible punishment needs to be delayed for
>> > appeals, uncovering new evidence, etc. Once you flip the switch, there is no going back.
>>
>> Tell that to Carlie.
>
>I will approve of the death penalty the day we can bring the victim back from the dead.
>
>Miche

sounds like a subject for a philip k.**** novel.

your pal, blake
 
On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:43:03 -0400, "Gabby" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Nina" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>> So did I. Even to the point of being 9 and wandering around a foreign country (Germany) in charge
>> of my 4 year old sister. But times have changed.
>
>Have times really changed or are we just more aware of the dangers out there? The disappearance of
>this child in Florida would have been a local new item 40 years ago. Now it's international news.
>
>Albert Fish did his deeds in the late 20s. Who knew besides the people in his state? Today, he'd be
>on TV across all 5 continents. The dangers have always been there.
>
>Gabby
>
this is my thinking also. there's been a fairly constant number of occurrences of vile events, but
now we hear about *all* of them, and hence think they're more widespread than they are.

your pal, lizzie
 
blake murphy wrote:

> this is my thinking also. there's been a fairly constant number of occurrences of vile events, but
> now we hear about *all* of them, and hence think they're more widespread than they are.

The numbers of children taken by strangers for evil purposes has remainded about the same as a
percentage of the population for a long time. People don't understand that, they seem to think
there's a massive wave of these attacks.

I hear people saying, "oh, you can't let the kids play outside like we could." They just don't
realize it was just as dangerous (and really not that dangerous) when we were kids. There just
wasn't this kind of publicity. There weren't half-a-dozen cable news channels and the internet.

The fact remains that kids out alone are much more likely to be hit by a car and killed than be
attacked by a stranger.

Brian Rodenborn
 
On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 17:09:39 GMT, "Darryl L. Pierce,,,"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>By "interpret" you mean assume what's not visible in the video, right? The video shows a man (his
>face is not that clear, not clear enough to be Smith otherwise there wouldn't be so much question
>initially) *abducting* the girl. That's not evidence of him *murdering* her. He may very will have
>handed her to someone else and *they* murdered here. You're assuming what's not evident.

I agree with you on the need for a trial, but you assertion that he may be guilty of the abduction
but not the murder is wrong. If he abducted the girl, and she is killed, he is guilty of murder,
even if he didn't do the murder himself. Pan Ohco
 
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:58:19 GMT, "Darryl L. Pierce,,,"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>It shouldn't matter *who* was killed: the system should still be designed to protect the innocents.
>Your relationship to the victim shouldn't make a difference in that respect.

Exactly. And when many guilty people go free in order to be absolutely sure that no innocent person
goes to prison, you can be certain that innocent people are =not= being protected. I believe there
are far more innocent people victimized by those who take advantage of our system and are wrongly
released, than there are innocent people sitting in jail cells.

Tracy R.
 
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:58:19 GMT, "Darryl L. Pierce,,,"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Tell me, do you think killing someone that you're not sure is guilty would make things better? Do
>you think killing someone who might or might be guilty is justice?

Of course not. What seems to be escaping you is the fact that I am certain Smith is guilty. You have
your doubts. Fine. I don't.

Tracy R.
 
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 02:15:36 GMT, "Darryl L. Pierce,,,"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>ravinwulf wrote:
>
>>>It shouldn't matter *who* was killed: the system should still be designed to protect the
>>>innocents. Your relationship to the victim shouldn't make a difference in that respect.
>>
>> Exactly. And when many guilty people go free in order to be absolutely sure that no innocent
>> person goes to prison, you can be certain that innocent people are =not= being protected.
>
>So, what's your answer? Throw innocent people into jail to ensure nobody who's guilty goes free?
>
>> I believe there are far more innocent people victimized by those who take advantage of our system
>> and are wrongly released, than there are innocent people sitting in jail cells.
>
>Then, what's your answer?

I'm thinking a variation on the Napoleonic code. If someone gets arrested and damning evidence is
provided by the police, the suspect gets to prove they were somewhere else or that someone else did
it, or do jail time. I believe that, most of the time, the police arrest the right people and that
more innocents would be protected that way.

Tracy R.
 
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 02:15:37 GMT, "Darryl L. Pierce,,,"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>What's been made available to us on the news is nowhere near enough to prove that he's guilty of
>the crime of murder.

Unless you are suggesting the tape of him taking the child was phoney, there's plenty of evidence.
Even in the unlikely event he didn't actually kill the kid, he is the reason she is dead.

Tracy R.
 
ravinwulf wrote:

>>Evidence, not proof. And, that video is not evidence of him *murdering* her, just of him taking
>>her away by the arm. You're assuming more *based* on the video, but your assumption is not
>>supported by the video. For all you know, he kidnapped her but someone *else* killed her. You
>>*can't* claim the video is evidence for anything more than what the video shows.
>
> Give me a break.

Why? Does rationality get in the way of the lynching?

> You sound like a lawyer for the defense trying to weasel a guilty man out of a conviction.

No, I sound like a rational human being trying to come to a *rational* conclusion and not like
an irrational person looking to string up the first person that looks guilty enough to get a
mob fired up.

> What are the odds that this kid met up with not one, but two nutcases in one day?

If it's greater than 0 (which it is) then you have to start looking. How do you know, for example,
that Smith wasn't part of a conspiracy to do this? Kill him now and you won't find the co-
conspirators.

> Anyone with a lick of common sense knows he did it.

Based on what objective evidence do you make this claim? "I just know" is *not* evidence.

--
Darryl L. Pierce <[email protected]> Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
"What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"
 
On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:56:48 GMT, "Darryl L. Pierce,,,"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>ravinwulf wrote:
>
>>>Evidence, not proof. And, that video is not evidence of him *murdering* her, just of him taking
>>>her away by the arm. You're assuming more *based* on the video, but your assumption is not
>>>supported by the video. For all you know, he kidnapped her but someone *else* killed her. You
>>>*can't* claim the video is evidence for anything more than what the video shows.
>>
>> Give me a break.
>
>Why? Does rationality get in the way of the lynching?
>
>> You sound like a lawyer for the defense trying to weasel a guilty man out of a conviction.
>
>No, I sound like a rational human being trying to come to a *rational* conclusion and not like an
>irrational person looking to string up the first person that looks guilty enough to get a mob
>fired up.
>
>> What are the odds that this kid met up with not one, but two nutcases in one day?
>
>If it's greater than 0 (which it is) then you have to start looking. How do you know, for example,
>that Smith wasn't part of a conspiracy to do this? Kill him now and you won't find the co-
>conspirators.
>
>> Anyone with a lick of common sense knows he did it.
>
>Based on what objective evidence do you make this claim? "I just know" is *not* evidence.

The standard in this country is beyond a reasonable doubt, keyword here being reasonable. The
standard is not "beyond any possible doubt, zero chance that someone else could have done it." It is
not, IMO, reasonable to believe that this guy kidnapped her, released her unharmed, and that she had
the incredible bad luck to run into a homicidal maniac later in the same day. It is possible that
Mr. Smith could have had an accomplice; but no evidence has come to light that suggests that was the
case. Furthermore, if there had been a co-conspirator, don't you think he would have named that
individual in an attempt to save his own worthless ass? It's not like guys who assault kids are
known for being all that brave or self-sacrificing, and he's looking at the death penalty. He's a
repeat offender who knows how the system works, who knows it's possible to make a deal with the DA
for a better outcome, if you have something to trade. It's "reasonable" (that problematic word
again) to assume that he'd try to make a deal, if indeed he had a partner, particularly if he really
wasn't the one who did the killing. But he hasn't done that. Ergo, it's "reasonable" to believe no
partner exists.

I have been following this case pretty closely since before Smith was arrested. Numerous people,
including several of his own family members, have identified the person on the video as Smith; NASA
has enhanced the photos to make identification clearer. The car seen in the video was loaned to him
by a friend who has come forward and is identifiable by dings and scrapes on the vehicle as being
the same car he borrowed. He has a history of attempted kidnapping/assault similar to this one. His
admissions led to the discovery of the body. The evening of the kidnapping, state troopers saw him
coming from the bushes where the body was later found and stopped to talk to him. (They quite
rightly did not arrest him because the child was still listed as a runaway and he wasn't under
suspicion at that time; he told them he had just pulled over to take a leak.) Based on all that, I
can honestly say that there is no "reasonable" doubt in my mind that he is the guilty party. If you
disagree, well, that's up to you; but that kind of thinking is part of the reason this bozo was free
on the streets and a kid is dead.

Tracy R.
 
Pan Ohco wrote:

>>By "interpret" you mean assume what's not visible in the video, right? The video shows a man (his
>>face is not that clear, not clear enough to be Smith otherwise there wouldn't be so much question
>>initially) *abducting* the girl. That's not evidence of him *murdering* her. He may very will have
>>handed her to someone else and *they* murdered here. You're assuming what's not evident.
>
> I agree with you on the need for a trial, but you assertion that he may be guilty of the abduction
> but not the murder is wrong.

How? You think it's not possible that he abducted her but didn't murder her, and that someone else
came along and did just that?

> If he abducted the girl, and she is killed, he is guilty of murder, even if he didn't do the
> murder himself.

Yes, by law I believe he would be guilty of murder just as much as the person who actually killed
her (assuming it was another person), because the murder occured during the commission of a
different crime.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending the guy. I'm defending the system of making sure someone's
guilty before punishing them, and I'm against the irrational drumhead trial mentality that wants to
"string 'em up" for no other reason than they "probably" did it...

--
Darryl L. Pierce <[email protected]> Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
"What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"
 
I forsee a time when news events will make prisoners of us all.

I know many folks who would never go to Manhatten because of the movies/TV shows portraying it as a
cesspool of drug dealers, thugs and pimps on every street.

I live in a small town where little kids always walked to school. Then they moved to school busses.
Now, parents herd their kids to and from the bus-stops. Why ?

On a recent visit to Miami, my most vivid memory was seeing all the houses with bars on the doors
and windows, ( like so many jail cells )

Has crime gotten worse? Or has the media sensitized our perception ? I guess you'd have to look at (
yearly ) crime statistics.

<rj> <rj
 
On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 16:46:34 GMT, "Darryl L. Pierce,,,"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>It's also this kind of thinking that has helped to ensure that somebody who didn't do a crime
>didn't end up dead because everybody thought he was guilty and deserved to be punished. I would
>rather err on the side of letting a guilty man go free than on the side of killing an innocent man
>"just in case".

A noble sentiment to be sure; but would you still feel that way if the guilty guy who got off "just
in case" killed your child or your wife the following week?

Tracy R.
 
ravinwulf wrote:

>>It shouldn't matter *who* was killed: the system should still be designed to protect the
>>innocents. Your relationship to the victim shouldn't make a difference in that respect.
>
> Exactly. And when many guilty people go free in order to be absolutely sure that no innocent
> person goes to prison, you can be certain that innocent people are =not= being protected.

So, what's your answer? Throw innocent people into jail to ensure nobody who's guilty goes free?

> I believe there are far more innocent people victimized by those who take advantage of our system
> and are wrongly released, than there are innocent people sitting in jail cells.

Then, what's your answer?

--
Darryl L. Pierce <[email protected]> Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
"What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"
 
ravinwulf wrote:

>>Tell me, do you think killing someone that you're not sure is guilty would make things better? Do
>>you think killing someone who might or might be guilty is justice?
>
> Of course not. What seems to be escaping you is the fact that I am certain Smith is guilty. You
> have your doubts. Fine. I don't.

No, that you think he's guilty hasn't escaped me. The only thing escaping anyone, apparently, is
that your certainty is based on the little bits that the media has fed to all of us; i.e., your
threshold for certainty is significantly lower than mine. What's been made available to us on the
news is nowhere near enough to prove that he's guilty of the crime of murder.

--
Darryl L. Pierce <[email protected]> Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
"What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"