OT: Google Groups Beta behaviour - encouraging top posting.

[dkahn400]

There's been some discussion here before about the weird behaviour of
the Google Groups Beta and how it seems designed to encourage people to
move away from the traditional Usenet quoting style. I've noted before
that when replying to a post it automatically inserts a line above the
quoted text and places the cursor there as though encouraging users to
top post. I've noticed in the last couple of days it's now inserting 2
blank lines above the quoted text making them hard to ignore and
strongly suggesting that top posting is the default reply mode. This,
and the hoops you have to jump through to get quoted text into your
reply in the first place, are clearly deliberate on Google's part. Am I
alone in finding this sinister?

--
Dave...

 

[MartinM]

dkahn400 wrote:

Am I alone in finding this sinister?

I have just tried it and it does not put the cursor anywhere, but you
have to click on reply under the "show options" to open the old post,
click on reply after the post and it does not put any quoted text in.

 

[dkahn400]

MartinM wrote:
> dkahn400 wrote:
>
> Am I alone in finding this sinister?
>
> I have just tried it and it does not put the cursor anywhere,
> but you have to click on reply under the "show options" to
> open the old post, click on reply after the post and it does
> not put any quoted text in.

You're right, it's not setting the cursor ATM although it is inserting
2 blank lines above the quoted text. An alternative way to get the
quoted text is to click on Reply after the post, then click Preview,
then click Edit Message. Both methods seems to give the same result
currently.

--
Dave...

 

[Arthur Clune]

dkahn400 <[email protected]> wrote:
: reply in the first place, are clearly deliberate on Google's part. Am I
: alone in finding this sinister?

Google clearly think top-posting is right. There seems to be no way
to get gmail to not top-post as well.


--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
Don't get me wrong, perl is an OK operating system, but it lacks a
lightweight scripting language -- Walter Dnes

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On 26 May 2005 14:29:35 GMT, "Arthur Clune" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Google clearly think top-posting is right. There seems to be no way
>to get gmail to not top-post as well.

Another one for the list of Minions of Stan, then...

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

 

[Andrew Chadwick]

On 2005-05-26 14:29 +0000, Arthur Clune wrote:
> dkahn400 <[email protected]> wrote:
>: reply in the first place, are clearly deliberate on Google's part. Am I
>: alone in finding this sinister?

Malice:incompetancebservation. The rest of the new news interface is so
screwed up as to make it nearly impossible to follow a thread. Remember
those?

> Google clearly think top-posting is right. There seems to be no way
> to get gmail to not top-post as well.

You can at least use a proper mail client with gmail via its IMAPS/SMTP
interfaces. Unlike certain other free email accounts.

--
Andrew Chadwick

 

[David Martin]

MartinM wrote:
> dkahn400 wrote:
>
> Am I alone in finding this sinister?
>
> I have just tried it and it does not put the cursor anywhere, but you
> have to click on reply under the "show options" to open the old post,
> click on reply after the post and it does not put any quoted text in.

Thanks for that, I was wondering how to do that since I have just
shifted to using google groups.

...d

 

[Pyromancer]

This was posted by just clicking "reply". I'd guess this is how most
peope will use it, the result is a post with no context at all.

 

[Pyromancer]

dkahn400 wrote:
> There's been some discussion here before about the weird behaviour of
> the Google Groups Beta and how it seems designed to encourage people to
> move away from the traditional Usenet quoting style. I've noted before
> that when replying to a post it automatically inserts a line above the
> quoted text and places the cursor there as though encouraging users to
> top post. I've noticed in the last couple of days it's now inserting 2
> blank lines above the quoted text making them hard to ignore and
> strongly suggesting that top posting is the default reply mode. This,
> and the hoops you have to jump through to get quoted text into your
> reply in the first place, are clearly deliberate on Google's part. Am I
> alone in finding this sinister?

This was done by "show options" "reply". It does indeed put two blank
lines above the attribution and quotes. I've left them in here.

TBH putting the cursor at the top is correct behaviour, that's where
you want it to start snipping. But the 2 blank lines are definetly an
encouragement to top-posting and should be removed.

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On 26 May 2005 09:06:16 -0700, "Pyromancer"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>This was posted by just clicking "reply". I'd guess this is how most
>peope will use it, the result is a post with no context at all.

That will work well for cyclingforums users then.

Oh, /context/. As you were, then.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>,
dkahn400 ('[email protected]') wrote:

> There's been some discussion here before about the weird behaviour of
> the Google Groups Beta and how it seems designed to encourage people
> to move away from the traditional Usenet quoting style. I've noted
> before that when replying to a post it automatically inserts a line
> above the quoted text and places the cursor there as though
> encouraging users to top post. I've noticed in the last couple of days
> it's now inserting 2 blank lines above the quoted text making them
> hard to ignore and strongly suggesting that top posting is the default
> reply mode. This, and the hoops you have to jump through to get quoted
> text into your reply in the first place, are clearly deliberate on
> Google's part. Am I alone in finding this sinister?

It does seem mildly incompatible with 'do no evil'.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

to err is human, to lisp divine
;; attributed to Kim Philby, oddly enough.

 

[Tumbleweed]

"dkahn400" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> There's been some discussion here before about the weird behaviour of
> the Google Groups Beta and how it seems designed to encourage people to
> move away from the traditional Usenet quoting style. I've noted before
> that when replying to a post it automatically inserts a line above the
> quoted text and places the cursor there as though encouraging users to
> top post.

So does Outlook Express

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

 

[Andy Morris]

Tumbleweed wrote:
> "dkahn400" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> There's been some discussion here before about the weird behaviour of
>> the Google Groups Beta and how it seems designed to encourage people
>> to move away from the traditional Usenet quoting style. I've noted
>> before that when replying to a post it automatically inserts a line
>> above the quoted text and places the cursor there as though
>> encouraging users to top post.
>
> So does Outlook Express

See below.

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

Love this:
Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

 

[Chris Malcolm]

"Pyromancer" <[email protected]> writes:

>dkahn400 wrote:
>> There's been some discussion here before about the weird behaviour of
>> the Google Groups Beta and how it seems designed to encourage people to
>> move away from the traditional Usenet quoting style. I've noted before
>> that when replying to a post it automatically inserts a line above the
>> quoted text and places the cursor there as though encouraging users to
>> top post. I've noticed in the last couple of days it's now inserting 2
>> blank lines above the quoted text making them hard to ignore and
>> strongly suggesting that top posting is the default reply mode. This,
>> and the hoops you have to jump through to get quoted text into your
>> reply in the first place, are clearly deliberate on Google's part. Am I
>> alone in finding this sinister?

>This was done by "show options" "reply". It does indeed put two blank
>lines above the attribution and quotes. I've left them in here.

>TBH putting the cursor at the top is correct behaviour, that's where
>you want it to start snipping. But the 2 blank lines are definetly an
>encouragement to top-posting and should be removed.

You don't want it to be difficult to top post, otherwise idiots will
stop doing it.
--
Chris Malcolm [email protected] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

 

[dkahn400]

Tumbleweed wrote:
> "dkahn400" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > There's been some discussion here before about the weird
> > behaviour of the Google Groups Beta and how it seems designed
> > to encourage people to move away from the traditional Usenet
> > quoting style. I've noted before that when replying to a post
> > it automatically inserts a line above the quoted text and places
> > the cursor there as though encouraging users to top post.
>
> So does Outlook Express

Need I say more?

--
Dave...

 

[Arthur Clune]

Tumbleweed <[email protected]> wrote:
: [ re top posting]
: So does Outlook Express

And, very annoyingly, so does Apple Mail. And there's no option to change
it. Grrr.

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
Don't get me wrong, perl is an OK operating system, but it lacks a
lightweight scripting language -- Walter Dnes

 

[Tumbleweed]

"dkahn400" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tumbleweed wrote:
>> "dkahn400" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > There's been some discussion here before about the weird
>> > behaviour of the Google Groups Beta and how it seems designed
>> > to encourage people to move away from the traditional Usenet
>> > quoting style. I've noted before that when replying to a post
>> > it automatically inserts a line above the quoted text and places
>> > the cursor there as though encouraging users to top post.
>>
>> So does Outlook Express
>
> Need I say more?
>

...only that there is no need for conspiracy theory, simple incompetence will
suffice (as it does for most areas of life)

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

 

[Theo Markettos]

Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]> wrote:
> Another one for the list of Minions of Stan, then...

http://www.google.co.uk/support/bin/request.py?contact_type=user&hl=en_GB
is the feedback form if you want to tell them.

Meanwhile, some of the international Googles still use the old interface.
Such as http://www.google.com.mt/intl/en/

Theo