OT (kind of): Flax seeds for dog treats?

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by zxcvbob, Feb 18, 2006.

  1. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Guest

    Last time our 70-something pound black labrador was at the vet, the vet
    said he should get more oil in his diet for his itchy skin (no hot
    spots), and specifically mentioned flax seed oil. I wasn't there, so I
    got this information 2nd hand. Otherwise I would have asked the vet.

    I've tried giving this dog fish oil capsules and he won't eat them
    because they are too much like pills.

    I have a big bag of flax seeds that my parents bought at a health food
    store a couple of years ago, then they didn't know what to do with them
    and gave them to me. Packrat that I am, I still have them. I ground
    some up in a coffee grinder yesterday and smelled them, and they are not
    the slightest bit rancid.

    How much should I give a dog at one time so all the fiber in there
    doesn't upset his gut? I tried sprinkling a little ground flax seed on
    his food and he didn't like it much. I just moistened about a half a
    cup of ground flax seeds with a little bit of water and mixed in enough
    peanut butter to make a dough -- as long as I roll the dough balls small
    enough that he can tell there's not a pill inside, he really likes them.
    I don't wanna give him too many at once. I'm storing the stuff in the
    fridge because I know it will get rancid *very* fast once it's been
    ground and exposed to air.

    Dogs like garlic; is garlic powder good for them? I could mix a little
    into the dough. Then maybe our picky boxer would eat them too.

    How much ground flax seed would be good in *my* diet?

    Thanks, and best regards,
    Bob
     
    Tags:


  2. Mark Thorson

    Mark Thorson Guest

    zxcvbob wrote:
    >
    > How much ground flax seed would be good in *my* diet?


    Zero. Same for the dog.

    Quoting from _Vegetable_Fats_and_Oils_ (2nd ed.) by
    George S. Jamieson, American Chemical Society Monograph
    Series Number 58, page 266:

    "It should be observed that flax seed as well as the
    press cake contain a cyanogenetic glucoside known as
    Linamarin. The cake, however, from "hot pressing,"
    is innocuous to cattle. The heat apparently prevents
    the action of an enzyme in the seed upon the glucoside
    and stops the evolution of hydrocyanic acid from the cake
    in the presence of moisture."
     
  3. In article <[email protected]>,
    Mark Thorson <[email protected]> wrote:

    > zxcvbob wrote:
    > >
    > > How much ground flax seed would be good in *my* diet?

    >
    > Zero. Same for the dog.
    >
    > Quoting from _Vegetable_Fats_and_Oils_ (2nd ed.) by
    > George S. Jamieson, American Chemical Society Monograph
    > Series Number 58, page 266:
    >
    > "It should be observed that flax seed as well as the
    > press cake contain a cyanogenetic glucoside known as
    > Linamarin. The cake, however, from "hot pressing,"
    > is innocuous to cattle. The heat apparently prevents
    > the action of an enzyme in the seed upon the glucoside
    > and stops the evolution of hydrocyanic acid from the cake
    > in the presence of moisture."


    English please???

    Flax is a good alternative source of EFA's for those of us that can NOT
    tolerate fish oil capsules! Those things make me nauseous for hours.

    I have Flax seed oil gel caps that I use...

    I've been told tho' by holistic practitioners that fresh GROUND flax
    seeds are superior.

    If you don't crush them, they are pretty much worthless. Recommendation
    for an adult human is 1 tbs. per day.

    If the average human is 150 lbs., calculate that WAY down for the dog.

    I give my dogs grape seed oil instead, or Evening Primrose Oil for pain.
    My beloved border collie sprained her back leg a couple of days ago. :-(
    Hurts to see her in pain that way, so I've been keeping her inside.
    Glucosamine sulfate WITHOUT Chondroitin (dogs cannot digest that stuff!)
    at 2 grams per day for a 45 lb. dog, and 1 gram of EPO has helped her
    immensely! She's back to fence chasing today with minimal limping. I'll
    treat her for 1 week after she recovers.
    --
    Peace, Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson
     
  4. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Guest

    Mark Thorson wrote:
    > zxcvbob wrote:
    >
    >>How much ground flax seed would be good in *my* diet?

    >
    >
    > Zero. Same for the dog.
    >
    > Quoting from _Vegetable_Fats_and_Oils_ (2nd ed.) by
    > George S. Jamieson, American Chemical Society Monograph
    > Series Number 58, page 266:
    >
    > "It should be observed that flax seed as well as the
    > press cake contain a cyanogenetic glucoside known as
    > Linamarin. The cake, however, from "hot pressing,"
    > is innocuous to cattle. The heat apparently prevents
    > the action of an enzyme in the seed upon the glucoside
    > and stops the evolution of hydrocyanic acid from the cake
    > in the presence of moisture."



    Cool! I can stop taking laetrile and B-17 tonics and just eat flaxseed.

    Lima beans also contain linamarin, but I don't care for limas.

    I'll be sure not to feed too many flaxseed to my pet cow. Thanks. ;-)

    Bob
     
  5. In article <[email protected]>,
    zxcvbob <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Mark Thorson wrote:
    > > zxcvbob wrote:
    > >
    > >>How much ground flax seed would be good in *my* diet?

    > >
    > >
    > > Zero. Same for the dog.
    > >
    > > Quoting from _Vegetable_Fats_and_Oils_ (2nd ed.) by
    > > George S. Jamieson, American Chemical Society Monograph
    > > Series Number 58, page 266:
    > >
    > > "It should be observed that flax seed as well as the
    > > press cake contain a cyanogenetic glucoside known as
    > > Linamarin. The cake, however, from "hot pressing,"
    > > is innocuous to cattle. The heat apparently prevents
    > > the action of an enzyme in the seed upon the glucoside
    > > and stops the evolution of hydrocyanic acid from the cake
    > > in the presence of moisture."

    >
    >
    > Cool! I can stop taking laetrile and B-17 tonics and just eat flaxseed.
    >
    > Lima beans also contain linamarin, but I don't care for limas.
    >
    > I'll be sure not to feed too many flaxseed to my pet cow. Thanks. ;-)
    >
    > Bob


    Mark is just a fountain of useful information isn't he?

    But seriously...
    --
    Peace, Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson
     
  6. On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 14:09:57 -0600, zxcvbob <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >Last time our 70-something pound black labrador was at the vet, the vet
    >said he should get more oil in his diet for his itchy skin (no hot
    >spots), and specifically mentioned flax seed oil. I wasn't there, so I
    >got this information 2nd hand. Otherwise I would have asked the vet.
    >
    >I've tried giving this dog fish oil capsules and he won't eat them
    >because they are too much like pills.


    When I need to give my dog a pill, I take 1/2 slice of bread, spread
    it with peanut butter or cheese whiz or jam, put the pill on the
    bread, fold in half, and seal the edges.

    Then I toss it in her direction. Works every time.
     
  7. The Bubbo

    The Bubbo Guest

    Jo Anne Slaven wrote:
    > On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 14:09:57 -0600, zxcvbob <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Last time our 70-something pound black labrador was at the vet, the vet
    >>said he should get more oil in his diet for his itchy skin (no hot
    >>spots), and specifically mentioned flax seed oil. I wasn't there, so I
    >>got this information 2nd hand. Otherwise I would have asked the vet.
    >>
    >>I've tried giving this dog fish oil capsules and he won't eat them
    >>because they are too much like pills.

    >
    > When I need to give my dog a pill, I take 1/2 slice of bread, spread
    > it with peanut butter or cheese whiz or jam, put the pill on the
    > bread, fold in half, and seal the edges.
    >
    > Then I toss it in her direction. Works every time.


    both my dogs have big heads and I have tiny hands so I just shove the pills
    right down their throats. They ALWAYS manage to pick them out of whatever i've
    hidded them in.

    --
    ..:Heather:.
    www.velvet-c.com
    Step off, beyotches, I'm the roflpimp!
     
  8. Mark Thorson

    Mark Thorson Guest

    OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
    >
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > Mark Thorson <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Quoting from _Vegetable_Fats_and_Oils_ (2nd ed.) by
    > > George S. Jamieson, American Chemical Society Monograph
    > > Series Number 58, page 266:
    > >
    > > "It should be observed that flax seed as well as the
    > > press cake contain a cyanogenetic glucoside known as
    > > Linamarin. The cake, however, from "hot pressing,"
    > > is innocuous to cattle. The heat apparently prevents
    > > the action of an enzyme in the seed upon the glucoside
    > > and stops the evolution of hydrocyanic acid from the cake
    > > in the presence of moisture."

    >
    > English please???


    Whole ground flaxseed heap
    no good mojo. Saaavvy? :)
     
  9. In article <[email protected]>,
    The Bubbo <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Jo Anne Slaven wrote:
    > > On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 14:09:57 -0600, zxcvbob <[email protected]>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > >>Last time our 70-something pound black labrador was at the vet, the vet
    > >>said he should get more oil in his diet for his itchy skin (no hot
    > >>spots), and specifically mentioned flax seed oil. I wasn't there, so I
    > >>got this information 2nd hand. Otherwise I would have asked the vet.
    > >>
    > >>I've tried giving this dog fish oil capsules and he won't eat them
    > >>because they are too much like pills.

    > >
    > > When I need to give my dog a pill, I take 1/2 slice of bread, spread
    > > it with peanut butter or cheese whiz or jam, put the pill on the
    > > bread, fold in half, and seal the edges.
    > >
    > > Then I toss it in her direction. Works every time.

    >
    > both my dogs have big heads and I have tiny hands so I just shove the pills
    > right down their throats. They ALWAYS manage to pick them out of whatever i've
    > hidded them in.


    Why don't you just crush the pills?
    That's what we do. For liquid caps, we pop them and mix them in a little
    bit of cat food.
    --
    Peace, Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson
     
  10. In article <[email protected]>,
    Mark Thorson <[email protected]> wrote:

    > OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
    > >
    > > In article <[email protected]>,
    > > Mark Thorson <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > Quoting from _Vegetable_Fats_and_Oils_ (2nd ed.) by
    > > > George S. Jamieson, American Chemical Society Monograph
    > > > Series Number 58, page 266:
    > > >
    > > > "It should be observed that flax seed as well as the
    > > > press cake contain a cyanogenetic glucoside known as
    > > > Linamarin. The cake, however, from "hot pressing,"
    > > > is innocuous to cattle. The heat apparently prevents
    > > > the action of an enzyme in the seed upon the glucoside
    > > > and stops the evolution of hydrocyanic acid from the cake
    > > > in the presence of moisture."

    > >
    > > English please???

    >
    > Whole ground flaxseed heap
    > no good mojo. Saaavvy? :)


    Well, many more studies state the beneficial EFA's from
    Flax or fish oils.

    It's kinda like saying don't eat food because much of it contains
    pesticides...
    --
    Peace, Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson
     
  11. Feed your dog more beef fat.

    He's not a prissy bint on a beach in California.

    He couldn't care less about freakin' flax-seed oil...

    --Blair
     
  12. How to give a dog a daily pill:

    Tell the dog to sit.

    Grab the dog by the lower jaw.

    With your forefinger on one side and your thumb on the other and your
    palm underneath, pry the dog's mouth open.

    With your other hand, push the pill as far back in the dog's throat as
    you can reach.

    Close the dog's mouth and hold it nearly closed until the dog swallows.
    Dogs do not have a gag reflex and will not reject the pill unless
    you've placed it wrong and it can slip to the side. You'll find it on
    the floor if that's the case.

    Give the dog a treat. Within a few days the dog will associate
    pill-time with treat-time, and just shaking the pill bottle will bring
    the dog running.

    --Blair
     
  13. The Bubbo

    The Bubbo Guest

    OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

    >
    > Why don't you just crush the pills?
    > That's what we do. For liquid caps, we pop them and mix them in a little
    > bit of cat food.


    couple of reasons, first a few of things i've had to gie maddie are time
    release and need to dissolve in her belly. Also, maddie is not food motivated
    at all and it's entirely likely she will start to eat something and either get
    spooked and run (her previous owner would lure her with treats and then abuse
    her) or just decide i'm too far away and come to me (she's very attached to
    me) then ghengis will go eat it.

    She's good at taking pills though and she knows she will get a treat when it's
    done.

    --
    ..:Heather:.
    www.velvet-c.com
    Step off, beyotches, I'm the roflpimp!
     
  14. Mark Thorson

    Mark Thorson Guest

    OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
    >
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > Mark Thorson <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
    > > >
    > > > In article <[email protected]>,
    > > > Mark Thorson <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Quoting from _Vegetable_Fats_and_Oils_ (2nd ed.) by
    > > > > George S. Jamieson, American Chemical Society Monograph
    > > > > Series Number 58, page 266:
    > > > >
    > > > > "It should be observed that flax seed as well as the
    > > > > press cake contain a cyanogenetic glucoside known as
    > > > > Linamarin. The cake, however, from "hot pressing,"
    > > > > is innocuous to cattle. The heat apparently prevents
    > > > > the action of an enzyme in the seed upon the glucoside
    > > > > and stops the evolution of hydrocyanic acid from the cake
    > > > > in the presence of moisture."
    > > >
    > > > English please???

    > >
    > > Whole ground flaxseed heap
    > > no good mojo. Saaavvy? :)

    >
    > Well, many more studies state the beneficial
    > EFA's from Flax or fish oils.


    The oil doesn't contain the cyanide-producing part.
    The whole ground seeds (with or without the oil)
    contain the cyanide-producing part.

    > It's kinda like saying don't eat food because
    > much of it contains pesticides...


    It's more like saying don't eat stuff that's
    poisonous for cattle, because it might not be
    healthful for you, either.
     
  15. In article <[email protected]>,
    The Bubbo <[email protected]> wrote:

    > OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > Why don't you just crush the pills?
    > > That's what we do. For liquid caps, we pop them and mix them in a little
    > > bit of cat food.

    >
    > couple of reasons, first a few of things i've had to gie maddie are time
    > release and need to dissolve in her belly. Also, maddie is not food motivated
    > at all and it's entirely likely she will start to eat something and either get
    > spooked and run (her previous owner would lure her with treats and then abuse
    > her) or just decide i'm too far away and come to me (she's very attached to
    > me) then ghengis will go eat it.
    >
    > She's good at taking pills though and she knows she will get a treat when it's
    > done.


    If you can successfully "pill" your dog, then there is no reason to hide
    it in food. :) Some folks can't.

    We have 6 dogs and my dad's elderly sheltie gets scared easily. He was
    abused by his previous owner so BITES when he gets scared! No way in
    hell can I shove a pill down him! I have to put it in his food.

    If I need to work with him for injuries and such, I have to put on a
    pair of welders gloves to protect my hands, grab his muzzle and tape it
    shut. :-( Then I can do whatever I need to do with him, including
    grooming and bathing... I feel SO bad for him!

    I praise him and give him treats when we are done, and that is helping.
    I don't have to tape his mouth as often as I used to.
    I've just tried to be ever so patient and gentle with him.
    --
    Peace, Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson
     
  16. In article <[email protected]>,
    Mark Thorson <[email protected]> wrote:

    > OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
    > >
    > > In article <[email protected]>,
    > > Mark Thorson <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > In article <[email protected]>,
    > > > > Mark Thorson <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > > Quoting from _Vegetable_Fats_and_Oils_ (2nd ed.) by
    > > > > > George S. Jamieson, American Chemical Society Monograph
    > > > > > Series Number 58, page 266:
    > > > > >
    > > > > > "It should be observed that flax seed as well as the
    > > > > > press cake contain a cyanogenetic glucoside known as
    > > > > > Linamarin. The cake, however, from "hot pressing,"
    > > > > > is innocuous to cattle. The heat apparently prevents
    > > > > > the action of an enzyme in the seed upon the glucoside
    > > > > > and stops the evolution of hydrocyanic acid from the cake
    > > > > > in the presence of moisture."
    > > > >
    > > > > English please???
    > > >
    > > > Whole ground flaxseed heap
    > > > no good mojo. Saaavvy? :)

    > >
    > > Well, many more studies state the beneficial
    > > EFA's from Flax or fish oils.

    >
    > The oil doesn't contain the cyanide-producing part.
    > The whole ground seeds (with or without the oil)
    > contain the cyanide-producing part.
    >
    > > It's kinda like saying don't eat food because
    > > much of it contains pesticides...

    >
    > It's more like saying don't eat stuff that's
    > poisonous for cattle, because it might not be
    > healthful for you, either.


    I'm not a cow...

    Have a nice day. ;-)
    --
    Peace, Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson
     
  17. Florida

    Florida Guest

    Blair P. Houghton wrote:
    > Feed your dog more beef fat.
    >
    > He's not a prissy bint on a beach in California.
    >
    > He couldn't care less about freakin' flax-seed oil...


    a. The dog will be grateful for extra fat or oil. He doesn't have
    to worry about cholesterol, he's not going to live to be 70 anyway, so
    let him live it up.
    b. I presume that 'bint' is not complimentary.
    c. Altho dogs can't talk, they can express opinions so why not let
    the dog choose. Offer the dog two separate (small) bowls of food, one
    with beef fat, one with flax oil. Most of us can guess the outcome.
    Speakin of which we once had a hippie vegetarian visitor with a dog who
    explained the moral implications of dog food and told us that the dog
    preferred vegetarian kibble. "He's really into it" the hippie said as
    we looked over his shoulder and watched his dog shove our cat aside and
    gobble down her high-meat-protein food.

    >
    > --Blair
     
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