OT - Obnoxious customers & limits



In article <[email protected]>,
"Ophelia" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Perhaps you can clear up another mystery while you are at it?
>
> Jones! I can't remember exactly where it fits into a sentence but it
> goes something like 'I Jonesed it' ???


A right-now hunger desire for food. "I'm jonesing for a pizza."
Perhaps something you've not eaten for a while and you suddently get a
jones for it. AFAIK.
--
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 12-13-05 - RIP, Gerri
 
"Damsel in dis Dress" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:30:28 GMT, "Ophelia" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "The Ranger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 11:59:58 GMT, "Ophelia" <[email protected]>
>> > replied:
>> > [snip]
>> >>Jones! [..]
>> >
>> > To want something in an uncontrollably compulsive way. "I was
>> > Jonesin' for a piece of that Chocolate Decadence Instant Death!"

>>
>> Thanks:) I think I am getting the picture:) I am still curious as to
>> how it got the name Jones though:)

>
> Because it would sound weird if you said you were Smithing for
> something is my guess. ; )


LOL
 
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 10:01:22 -0800, The Ranger
<[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 11:45:20 -0600, Damsel in dis Dress
> <[email protected]> replied:
> > On 18 Dec 2005 11:43:07 -0600, "Bob Terwilliger" <virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz> wrote:
> > > Carol replied to Ophelia:
> > > > >I am still curious as to how it got the name Jones though:)
> > > > >
> > > > Because it would sound weird if you said you were Smithing for
> > > > something is my guess. ; )
> > > >
> > > Not weird at all. That would mean you were pounding metal on
> > > an anvil for it.
> > >

> > Go lie down by your dish, Terwilliger!
> >

> Don't be throwin' a bone his way! Squirt 'im in the nose with a
> water bottle and THEN send to his bed.


That *is* more humane that swatting him with a rolled up newspaper,
isn't it? Besides, he'd probably like it.

Carol
--

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/head_trollop/my_photos
 
"Melba's Jammin'" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Ophelia" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps you can clear up another mystery while you are at it?
>>
>> Jones! I can't remember exactly where it fits into a sentence but it
>> goes something like 'I Jonesed it' ???

>
> A right-now hunger desire for food. "I'm jonesing for a pizza."
> Perhaps something you've not eaten for a while and you suddently get a
> jones for it. AFAIK.


Thanks Barb
 
Nancy Young wrote:
> "Ophelia" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>
>>Thanks:) I think I am getting the picture:) I am still curious as to how
>>it got the name Jones though:)

>
>
> I imagine there was a guy named Jones who was suffering withdrawal
> from a drug and after that, people would say I'm Jonesin' ...
> nothing more.
>
> nancy
>
>



I was curious and tried to look it up once; what I found was that it
came from "Jones" as a slang for heroin. So Jonesin' is an intense
craving, such as drug withdrawl. Beyond that, the etymology has been
lost in obscurity (nobody remember why heroin was called Jones).

Best regards,
Bob
 
"The Ranger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> There is no excuse for a person to be degraded by another.

>
> Sure there's an excuse! You, as a sale clerk, are there for the
> money; there are no other altruistic or spiritual reasons. If you
> can't handle the lone difficult customer that steps your way, then
> you need to find a research programming job that does not deal
> with John Q Public.



So it is OK if I degrade you, call you names, curse at you, as long as you
are getting paid? Are you a prostitute? Handling the lone difficult
customer can mean telling him to leave. Some custoemrs are not woth the
profit you maymake on the sale. Sre, there are many egrees of difficult
customers, but when you get to the extreme, money is not the deciding
factor. There is a limit.



>
> As much as necessary to close that sale. At the end of a difficult
> sale, the clerk can move to the back of the store to check
> inventory and compose herself for the next customer.


********! I'm not a very PC type of person, but there are limits to what
one should endure. Bad behavior condoned just breeds more of the same.

>
>> Take away your badge and ticket book, How much would you
>> have put up with if you had no recourse for revenge?

>
> You're comparing apples and oranges, Ed. A constable/LEO is in
> charge of public safety, not simple sales of merchandise.


The LEO is human. Some will take revenge in the form of writing tickets,
making an arrest, or anything they have the power to do. My point is that
he has the power, the retail sales clerk often does not. They should and
must be able to take some control.

If you are willing to take a string of profanities, be screamed at,
harassed, and whatever else just to make a sale, you are probably getting
what you deserve. Thank you and please come again. We value your
patronage.
 
"zxcvbob" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
> I was curious and tried to look it up once; what I found was that it
> came from "Jones" as a slang for heroin. So Jonesin' is an intense
> craving, such as drug withdrawl. Beyond that, the etymology has been
> lost in obscurity (nobody remember why heroin was called Jones).


Thank you Bob
 
Damsel in dis Dress wrote:

> > >

> > Don't be throwin' a bone his way! Squirt 'im in the nose with a
> > water bottle and THEN send to his bed.

>
> That *is* more humane that swatting him with a rolled up newspaper,
> isn't it? Besides, he'd probably like it.
>


You want a human treatment for a dog? Hit yourself with the newspaper. I have a dog that
I adopted from the pound. He is half German Shepherd and half Bouvier. I don't know how a
cross between two of the smartest dog breeds could result in dimwit, but this guy is dumb. He
was a year and a half old when I got him, and he was totally untrained, and no doubt had been
abused by his previous owner. I threatened him with a rolled up newspaper one day and struck
my one hand with it. I was able to get him to stop doing all sorts of things by hitting
myself on the hand and threatening to do it to myself again. I never hit him with it so he
doesn't even know what it feels like, but the threat of doing it to myself works wonders. :)
 
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 18:25:29 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
replied:
> "The Ranger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > There is no excuse for a person to be degraded by another.
> > >

> > Sure there's an excuse! You, as a sale clerk, are there for the
> > money; there are no other altruistic or spiritual reasons. If you
> > can't handle the lone difficult customer that steps your way, then
> > you need to find a research programming job that does not deal
> > with John Q Public.
> >

> So it is OK if I degrade you, call you names, curse at you, as long
> as you are getting paid? Are you a prostitute?


As one salesman once quipped, "People know exactly what I am. It's
only a matter of how much they're willing to pay me in commission
that I care about." So, yes, Ed, commissioned salespeople are
legalized prostitutes. Non-commissioned salespeople are stupid.

> Handling the lone difficult customer can mean telling him to leave.


No it does not... Ever. If you can't handle that lone "difficult
customer," you are in the wrong line of business. If you find
yourself experiencing an ever-increasing number of difficult
customers, look inward to the problem; you're experiencing job
burnout.

Any salesclerk that tells a customer to leave has overstepped
their job description. They are NOT empowered to do that and to
counsels otherwise is doing them a disservice.

> Some custoemrs are not woth the profit you maymake on
> the sale. Sre, there are many egrees of difficult customers,
> but when you get to the extreme, money is not the deciding
>factor. There is a limit.


Money _is always_ the deciding factor in sales. If there is a
diminishing return on the sale of an item, then it must be made by
someone higher than a line-report.

A great example of just how far managers are willing to go is car
salespeople. The ONLY two things a salesman (or saleswoman) is
graded on is how many cars s/he sold at the end of the month and
how much profit s/he brought into the company. The top salespeople
take customer guff and turn it back into a final sale. The sales
managers don't care if their reports are abused; it's a part of
the business. If they can't handle it, they're dropped or they
leave voluntarily.

> > As much as necessary to close that sale. At the end of a difficult
> > sale, the clerk can move to the back of the store to check
> > inventory and compose herself for the next customer.
> >

> ********! I'm not a very PC type of person, but there are limits
> to what one should endure. Bad behavior condoned just breeds
> more of the same.


Maybe in your little portion of the universe but then we disagree
on almost everything.

> > > Take away your badge and ticket book, How much would you
> > > have put up with if you had no recourse for revenge?
> > >

> > You're comparing apples and oranges, Ed. A constable/LEO is in
> > charge of public safety, not simple sales of merchandise.
> >

> The LEO is human. Some will take revenge in the form of writing
> tickets, making an arrest, or anything they have the power to do.
> My point is that he has the power, the retail sales clerk often does
> not. They should and must be able to take some control.


The retail clerk has enough power to exact revenge in other ways.
We've all seen clerks get abused. The greater the abuse the
quicker the response from the community at large. And abuse is
always controllable. Always.

> If you are willing to take a string of profanities, be screamed
> at, harassed, and whatever else just to make a sale, you are
> probably getting what you deserve. Thank you and please
> come again. We value your patronage.


And that's all a business owner gives a flying hoot about at the
end of every business day. Did she make enough sales to open up
again tomorrow? If not, let's find the reasons and fix them. Most
of the time that means firing a sales clerk (or two) and replacing
them with the next group of expendable human resources.

The Ranger
 
I used to have a tech support job over the phone which fried my nerves.
I didn't know anything about self esteem back then, but I've learned a
lot about it recently. Now I don't put up with abuse. I speak up. I
assert myself. If I were doing that job again, I would've told abusive
customers that it's not my job to listen to them chew me out and that
I'm not going to listen and take it. I would tell them that they don't
have the right to treat me that way just because they're a customer.
And if the boss fired me for standing up for myself, I would sue him
for emotional abuse or something like that. I have started my own
business, partly because I hate working for other people. I've now
started to make some profit. When I eventually hire employees, I will
treat them with respect and consideration, and if any customer tries to
abuse an employee, I will tell them to f*ck off and die and we don't
need their business.
 
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 13:51:29 -0500, Dave Smith
<[email protected]> replied:
> You want a human treatment for a dog? Hit yourself
> with the newspaper. I have a dog that I adopted from
> the pound. He is half German Shepherd and half Bouvier.
> I don't know how a cross between two of the smartest
> dog breeds could result in dimwit, but this guy is dumb.
> He was a year and a half old when I got him, and he was
> totally untrained, and no doubt had been abused by his
> previous owner. I threatened him with a rolled up
> newspaper one day and struck my one hand with it.
> I was able to get him to stop doing all sorts of things by
> hitting myself on the hand and threatening to do it to
> myself again. I never hit him with it so he doesn't even
> know what it feels like, but the threat of doing it to myself
> works wonders. :)


It's the combination of the sharp noise followed by the sudden
movement that is making him stop any aberrant behaviors you are
seeing. An aluminum can half-filled with marbles does the exact
same thing. A spray bottle followed by "NO!" works the trick too.
(Even for those breeds that are as dense as a box of rocks --
Irish Setter and Cocker Spaniel are two that have had their brains
bred thin -- water and voice will train them properly.)

The Ranger
 
x-no-archive: yes


Money _is always_ the deciding factor in sales.>>

I think you're exaggerating this point. I have owned a retail business
and worked in others. There are some customers who are more trouble
than they are worth. Sometimes it's because they take away attention we
need from other customers. Sometimes it's because they create an
unpleasant atmosphere. Choosing not to deal with those customers is
indeed done with overall profits in mind. However, you seem to be
writing as if every individual sale was decided on whether or not we
will get money out of that one person.
 
On 18 Dec 2005 11:25:29 -0800, [email protected] replied:
> [..] I have started my own business, [..] and if any
> customer tries to abuse an employee, I will tell them
> to f*ck off and die and we don't need their business.


What's the name of your company again? Just for the record.

The Ranger
 
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

> If you are willing to take a string of profanities, be screamed at,
> harassed, and whatever else just to make a sale, you are probably getting
> what you deserve. Thank you and please come again. We value your
> patronage.
>

Yup.. that about describes most hospital corporations now and what the
staff has to put up with.
 
Carol wrote:

>>> it would sound weird if you said you were Smithing for
>>> something is my guess. ; )

>>
>> Not weird at all. That would mean you were pounding metal on an
>> anvil for it.

>
> Go lie down by your dish, Terwilliger!


Ain't gonna. *I* made sense out of your nonsense: YOU should be the one
getting punished! :-þ

Bob
 
x-no-archive: yes

The Ranger wrote:

>>> I think you're exaggerating this point.


Yes and no; the owner/manager has to decide if the sale is costing
MORE than it is bring in. If the _same_ customer always creates
the exact same scene, then it will cause other sales to fail,
which turns back to the bottom line. OTOH, if that customer is
bring in a sizeable profit (special ordering products with every
visit), then the difficulty of handling them is justified. It


> I have owned a retail business and worked in others. There
> are some customers who are more trouble than they are
> worth. Sometimes it's because they take away attention we
> need from other customers. Sometimes it's because they
> create an unpleasant atmosphere. Choosing not to deal
> with those customers is indeed done with overall profits
> in mind.



So how is this exaggerating my point? You verified it. It's all
about money. >>

"Yes and no" or "you verified my point"? With all respect, I think
you're losing track of the argument here.
 
On 18 Dec 2005 11:29:50 -0800, "Naomi" <[email protected]>
replied to my <[email protected]> comment:
> > Money _is always_ the deciding factor in sales.>>
> >

> I think you're exaggerating this point.


Yes and no; the owner/manager has to decide if the sale is costing
MORE than it is bring in. If the _same_ customer always creates
the exact same scene, then it will cause other sales to fail,
which turns back to the bottom line. OTOH, if that customer is
bring in a sizeable profit (special ordering products with every
visit), then the difficulty of handling them is justified. It

> I have owned a retail business and worked in others. There
> are some customers who are more trouble than they are
> worth. Sometimes it's because they take away attention we
> need from other customers. Sometimes it's because they
> create an unpleasant atmosphere. Choosing not to deal
> with those customers is indeed done with overall profits
> in mind.


So how is this exaggerating my point? You verified it. It's all
about money.

> However, you seem to be writing as if every individual sale
> was decided on whether or not we will get money out of
> that one person.


The individual sale is all part of the aggregate and contributes
directly to total sales and revenue at the end of every shift. If
the regular customer is bringing in a certain amount of money,
then a little extra effort is called into play.

My point to Ed was that an individual drone (salesclerk) does not
have the authority to make those type of business decisions. If a
customer is being too ornery, then s/he should bump the upset
customer up a level. If s/he is so thin-skinned that they can
handle confrontation of any type, then sales isn't the job for
them. (And you'd be amazed at how many milk toasts are in sales.)

The Ranger
 
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:30:28 GMT, "Ophelia" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"The Ranger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 11:59:58 GMT, "Ophelia" <[email protected]>
>> replied:
>> [snip]
>>>Jones! [..]

>>
>> To want something in an uncontrollably compulsive way. "I was
>> Jonesin' for a piece of that Chocolate Decadence Instant Death!"

>
>Thanks:) I think I am getting the picture:) I am still curious as to
>how it got the name Jones though:)
>


Semantic origin unknown, but that's common for slang.
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19961031
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jones


Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
 
Curly Sue wrote:
> You're talking apples and oranges here. One is whether an employee
> can get unemployment benefits if fired, the other is whether employees
> can be fired at all.
>
> I thought that in the US, with the exception of contract employees and
> some discrimination situations, employment is "at will." I.e., the
> employee can quit at any time and the employer can let the employees
> go at any time. If a convenience store hires someone it's hard to
> believe that the store would be obligated to employ that person for
> life.
>
> Sue(tm)
> Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!


And I tried so hard to explain too. The two ideas are somewhat
connected.
In this way they are both round and fruits unless you call an orange
a "vegetable." And they are also disconnected. I can be fired at will
but I can also collect unemployment if the firing was not justified
by unemployment standards. Sometimes they are also connected
in that what happens in the unemployment bureau might have
ramifications back against the employer.

Have you had a chance to read employment law? You really
can't fire someone because you feel like it. Well, you can,
but there are ramifications. What the employers say and what the
laws are - happen to be two different things, like apples and oranges,
as you originally said.

It really depends on the state.
Not all states are the same. California and New Jersey have good laws
whereas Pennsylvania is rather barbaric with almost no rights for
employees.

But there are federal remedies as well as state concerns, so it gets
tricky. What occurs at the state level may not be allowed at the
federal level. So that's another wrinkle.

And there are exceptions to the "at will." The employers do not
advertise
this but there are exceptions even in the most barbaric of states.

And come to think of it, why should a convenience store not employ
someone for life if business is good and that person does a good
job? Your comment seems rather callous. Is this really what you mean?
 
On 18 Dec 2005 11:48:34 -0800, "Naomi" <[email protected]>
replied:
> > > I think you're exaggerating this point.

> > Yes and no; [..]

> "Yes and no" or "you verified my point"? With all respect,
> I think you're losing track of the argument here.


Where? Maybe I missed where I was "exaggerating."

The manager/owner has the final say on whether a customer is
costing them revenue or not. Nowhere in my examples does the
salesclerk get to make that decision. Allowing salespeople (line
staff) that latitude will tank sales for your business very
quickly.

The Ranger