OT - Obnoxious customers & limits

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Julia Altshuler, Dec 17, 2005.

  1. "The Ranger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > My point to Ed was that an individual drone (salesclerk) does not
    > have the authority to make those type of business decisions. If a
    > customer is being too ornery, then s/he should bump the upset
    > customer up a level. If s/he is so thin-skinned that they can
    > handle confrontation of any type, then sales isn't the job for
    > them. (And you'd be amazed at how many milk toasts are in sales.)
    >
    > The Ranger


    Individual drone? My, you certainly do show a lot of class with that
    generalization.

    You are correct that a berated clerk should bump the customer to the next
    level, but the OP was the top level at that time in that store. Someone
    always has to be in charge, have authority to maintain control, and have
    some guidelines to work with.

    Some confrontation is a part of dealing with customers, but like everything
    else, there has to be a limit. I cannot respect anyone that either takes or
    allows an employee to take excessive abuse. No, I'm not talking about a
    customer that gets a little louder than normal returning with a damaged
    product, I'm talking about the outright pigs using foul language and
    screaming.
     


  2. Naomi

    Naomi Guest

    x-no-archive: yes


    The Ranger wrote:
    > On 18 Dec 2005 11:48:34 -0800, "Naomi" <[email protected]>
    > replied:
    > > > > I think you're exaggerating this point.
    > > > Yes and no; [..]

    > > "Yes and no" or "you verified my point"? With all respect,
    > > I think you're losing track of the argument here.

    >
    > Where? Maybe I missed where I was "exaggerating."


    You're the one who responded "yes and no" when I said you were
    exaggerating. Right there in what you quoted, the first two lines. So
    apparently you did agree that you were exaggerating in part.

    Whatever. I certainly think your characterization of the role of a
    saleclerk in a small business like Julia works for is overly bleak. A
    knowledgeable clerk who gets along with the owner and knows how to sell
    is not as dispensable as you seem to think. That is not to say that a
    salesperson should not defer to the owner on this sort of question.
    S/he absolutely should. For one thing, the owners' life savings are
    probably in the business and as such they have every right to decide
    how to handle customers. However, if they are smart they will not
    expect customers to be abused.
     
  3. Naomi

    Naomi Guest

    x-no-archive: yes

    Sorry, the end of my last post should have read, "they will not expect
    salespeople to be abused."
     
  4. Ophelia

    Ophelia Guest

    "Curly Sue" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:30:28 GMT, "Ophelia" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"The Ranger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email protected]
    >>> On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 11:59:58 GMT, "Ophelia" <[email protected]>
    >>> replied:
    >>> [snip]
    >>>>Jones! [..]
    >>>
    >>> To want something in an uncontrollably compulsive way. "I was
    >>> Jonesin' for a piece of that Chocolate Decadence Instant Death!"

    >>
    >>Thanks:) I think I am getting the picture:) I am still curious as to
    >>how it got the name Jones though:)
    >>

    >
    > Semantic origin unknown, but that's common for slang.
    > http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19961031
    > http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jones


    Well that was fascinating.. ..thank you!
     
  5. Curly Sue

    Curly Sue Guest

    On 18 Dec 2005 12:09:20 -0800, "[email protected]"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Curly Sue wrote:
    >> You're talking apples and oranges here. One is whether an employee
    >> can get unemployment benefits if fired, the other is whether employees
    >> can be fired at all.
    >>
    >> I thought that in the US, with the exception of contract employees and
    >> some discrimination situations, employment is "at will." I.e., the
    >> employee can quit at any time and the employer can let the employees
    >> go at any time. If a convenience store hires someone it's hard to
    >> believe that the store would be obligated to employ that person for
    >> life.
    >>
    >> Sue(tm)
    >> Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!


    >And I tried so hard to explain too.

    You did try hard and the information was interesting, but you didn't
    address the problem. The post to which you responded (and clipped to
    a quote) was talking about unemployment insurance; your response was
    solely on whether someone can be fired.

    Let's see how you do when you're not in a hurry:
    >The two ideas are somewhat connected.
    >In this way they are both round and fruits unless you call an orange
    >a "vegetable." And they are also disconnected. I can be fired at will
    >but I can also collect unemployment if the firing was not justified
    >by unemployment standards. Sometimes they are also connected
    >in that what happens in the unemployment bureau might have
    >ramifications back against the employer.


    See how much better that is?

    >Have you had a chance to read employment law? You really
    >can't fire someone because you feel like it. Well, you can,
    >but there are ramifications. What the employers say and what the
    >laws are - happen to be two different things, like apples and oranges,
    >as you originally said.
    >
    >It really depends on the state.
    >Not all states are the same. California and New Jersey have good laws
    >whereas Pennsylvania is rather barbaric with almost no rights for
    >employees.


    In your previous post you said that in Pennsylvania, employees can't
    be fired for incompetance. That sounds pretty darn "good" for the
    employees.

    >And come to think of it, why should a convenience store not employ
    >someone for life if business is good and that person does a good
    >job? Your comment seems rather callous. Is this really what you mean?


    I didn't say it was a good or bad, just that "it's hard to believe."
    It's hard to believe that you think that's callous.

    Sue(tm)
    Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
     
  6. The Ranger

    The Ranger Guest

    On 18 Dec 2005 12:32:00 -0800, "Naomi" <[email protected]>
    replied:
    >The Ranger wrote:
    >> On 18 Dec 2005 11:48:34 -0800, "Naomi" <[email protected]> replied:
    >> > > > I think you're exaggerating this point.
    >> > > Yes and no; [..]
    >> > "Yes and no" or "you verified my point"? With all respect,
    >> > I think you're losing track of the argument here.

    >>
    >> Where? Maybe I missed where I was "exaggerating."

    >
    >You're the one who responded "yes and no" when I said you were
    >exaggerating. Right there in what you quoted, the first two lines. So
    >apparently you did agree that you were exaggerating in part.


    Ahh... I misunderstood the question... I thought you were pointing
    to my car sales example as the extreme that could not be pushed
    toward any other retail sales. I do not think car sales is so
    removed to be such an extreme example. It's very similar to
    waiting tables, too, another form of salesclerk.

    > I certainly think your characterization of the role of a
    > saleclerk in a small business like Julia works for is overly
    > bleak.


    Sales is the only area in retail that is so black-and-white in its
    absoluteness. An employee is either contributing to the bottom
    line or s/he is a drain to it.

    > A knowledgeable clerk who gets along with the owner
    > and knows how to sell is not as dispensable as you seem
    > to think.


    It depends on the business and the owner, and how s/he's set it
    up.

    I ran into one guy that'd routinely fire his entire sales staff
    just so that he could keep the payout in commissions "in line."
    His favorite quote was, "I can train 1000 chimps to do what they
    do. And the chimps would work for food."

    A restaurant owner took the opposite extreme, keeping his waiters
    on for years (21 and 23 years) because, "No one can do what they
    do so naturally."

    The safety equipment owner is still in business and has a huge
    territory now... I've lost touch with the restaurateur.

    The Ranger
     
  7. The Ranger wrote:

    So, yes, Ed, commissioned salespeople are
    > legalized prostitutes. Non-commissioned salespeople are stupid.
    >


    WTF?



    --

    saerah

    "Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
    disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
    -Baruch Spinoza

    "There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
    what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
    and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
    is another theory which states that this has already happened."
    -Douglas Adams
     
  8. The Ranger

    The Ranger Guest

    On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 20:11:54 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
    replied:
    >"The Ranger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> My point to Ed was that an individual drone (salesclerk) does not
    >> have the authority to make those type of business decisions. If a
    >> customer is being too ornery, then s/he should bump the upset
    >> customer up a level. If s/he is so thin-skinned that they can
    >> handle confrontation of any type, then sales isn't the job for
    >> them. (And you'd be amazed at how many milk toasts are in sales.)
    >>

    >Individual drone? My, you certainly do show a lot of class with that
    >generalization.


    As much class as you do with your follow-up. So we're both
    classless. <shrug>

    >You are correct that a berated clerk should bump the customer to the next
    >level, but the OP was the top level at that time in that store. Someone
    >always has to be in charge, have authority to maintain control, and have
    >some guidelines to work with.


    And that's why she'is paid better than the PYT (the 22-yo
    hit-upon). That's why managers are given perks that regular sales
    people are not. For handling the few difficult customers that
    surface when the owner is not present.

    >Some confrontation is a part of dealing with customers, but like everything
    >else, there has to be a limit. I cannot respect anyone that either takes or
    >allows an employee to take excessive abuse. No, I'm not talking about a
    >customer that gets a little louder than normal returning with a damaged
    >product, I'm talking about the outright pigs using foul language and
    >screaming.


    And the extremes are part-and-parcel of the same bottom-line
    contributing sales. Luckily they don't happen very often but when
    it does, you isolate, sympathize, and control them. You isolate
    them by taking their audience away. "I understand your dilemma,
    sir. Please, follow me over here where we might talk more
    privately." You sympathize, "I understand your not wanting to give
    me this information yet again. I will make sure this does not
    happen on a future visit with us." And finally you CONTROL THEM:
    "I understand your zeal for trying to make your point but I am
    unable to resolve the problem if you continue to talk like a
    four-year old on barbiturates."

    Never once did a level-tone or continued eye-contact make an
    abusive situation worse. Just the opposite: it helps with calming
    the scene down rather than escalating it.
     
  9. The Ranger wrote:
    > On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:05:32 GMT, sarah bennett
    > <[email protected]> replied:
    >
    >>The Ranger wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>So, yes, Ed, commissioned salespeople are
    >>>legalized prostitutes. Non-commissioned salespeople
    >>>are stupid.
    >>>

    >>
    >>WTF?
    >>

    >
    > What was so difficult to understand about those two sentences,
    > Sarah?
    >
    > The Ranger


    Your implication that people who work in retail sales who are not on
    commission are stupid. Unfortunate, maybe. Undereducated, maybe. But not
    stupid. You remind me of the woman who once told me, while I was ringing
    her up, that she used to be a cashier before she "got a real job"
    sheesh!

    --

    saerah

    "Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
    disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
    -Baruch Spinoza

    "There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
    what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
    and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
    is another theory which states that this has already happened."
    -Douglas Adams
     
  10. The Ranger

    The Ranger Guest

    On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:05:32 GMT, sarah bennett
    <[email protected]> replied:
    >The Ranger wrote:
    >
    > > So, yes, Ed, commissioned salespeople are
    > > legalized prostitutes. Non-commissioned salespeople
    > > are stupid.
    >>

    >WTF?
    >

    What was so difficult to understand about those two sentences,
    Sarah?

    The Ranger
     
  11. notbob

    notbob Guest

    On 2005-12-18, sarah bennett <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Your implication that people who work in retail sales who are not on
    > commission are stupid. Unfortunate, maybe. Undereducated, maybe. But not
    > stupid. You remind me of the woman who once told me, while I was ringing
    > her up, that she used to be a cashier before she "got a real job"
    > sheesh!


    I'm still working on the "prostitute" equation. :\

    nb
     
  12. notbob wrote:
    > On 2005-12-18, sarah bennett <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Your implication that people who work in retail sales who are not on
    >>commission are stupid. Unfortunate, maybe. Undereducated, maybe. But not
    >>stupid. You remind me of the woman who once told me, while I was ringing
    >>her up, that she used to be a cashier before she "got a real job"
    >>sheesh!

    >
    >
    > I'm still working on the "prostitute" equation. :\
    >
    > nb


    anyone who spends their days doing things they other wise wouldn't do if
    not for the money is a prostitute, if you keep thinking along that kind
    of line.

    --

    saerah

    "Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
    disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
    -Baruch Spinoza

    "There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
    what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
    and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
    is another theory which states that this has already happened."
    -Douglas Adams
     
  13. The Ranger wrote:
    > On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:15:44 GMT, sarah bennett
    > <[email protected]> replied:
    > [snip]
    >
    >>Your implication that people who work in retail sales who
    >>are not on commission are stupid. Unfortunate, maybe.
    >>Undereducated, maybe. But not stupid. You remind me
    >>of the woman who once told me, while I was ringing her
    >>up, that she used to be a cashier before she "got a real
    >>job" sheesh!

    >
    >
    > A cashier is choosing to work for less money. So, yes, that's
    > stupid.
    >


    As if choice had anything to do with it!

    --

    saerah

    "Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
    disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
    -Baruch Spinoza

    "There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
    what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
    and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
    is another theory which states that this has already happened."
    -Douglas Adams
     
  14. The Ranger

    The Ranger Guest

    On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:15:44 GMT, sarah bennett
    <[email protected]> replied:
    [snip]
    > Your implication that people who work in retail sales who
    > are not on commission are stupid. Unfortunate, maybe.
    > Undereducated, maybe. But not stupid. You remind me
    > of the woman who once told me, while I was ringing her
    > up, that she used to be a cashier before she "got a real
    > job" sheesh!


    A cashier is choosing to work for less money. So, yes, that's
    stupid.

    The Ranger
     
  15. The Ranger

    The Ranger Guest

    On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 15:24:45 -0600, notbob <[email protected]>
    replied:
    [snip]
    >I'm still working on the "prostitute" equation. :\


    Work in sales sometime. It helps.

    The Ranger
     
  16. The Ranger wrote:
    > On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:33:25 GMT, sarah bennett
    > <[email protected]> replied:
    >
    >>The Ranger wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:15:44 GMT, sarah bennett <[email protected]> replied:
    >>>[snip]
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Your implication that people who work in retail sales who
    >>>>are not on commission are stupid. Unfortunate, maybe.
    >>>>Undereducated, maybe. But not stupid. You remind me
    >>>>of the woman who once told me, while I was ringing her
    >>>>up, that she used to be a cashier before she "got a real
    >>>>job" sheesh!
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>A cashier is choosing to work for less money. So, yes, that's
    >>>stupid.
    >>>

    >>
    >>As if choice had anything to do with it!
    >>

    >
    > "Choice" is always part of the decision making process. I've met
    > too many adults that have bettered themselves to think anything
    > else.
    >
    > Those that don't think choice is part of the process are as guilty
    > of stupidity as those that work for less money because they think
    > they can only be cashiers.


    OK, how can I find a sales job with no experience? Would sure beat
    making sandwiches for minimum wage.


    --

    saerah

    "Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
    disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
    -Baruch Spinoza

    "There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
    what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
    and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
    is another theory which states that this has already happened."
    -Douglas Adams
     
  17. The Ranger

    The Ranger Guest

    On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:33:25 GMT, sarah bennett
    <[email protected]> replied:
    > The Ranger wrote:
    > > On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:15:44 GMT, sarah bennett <[email protected]> replied:
    > > [snip]
    > >
    > > > Your implication that people who work in retail sales who
    > > > are not on commission are stupid. Unfortunate, maybe.
    > > > Undereducated, maybe. But not stupid. You remind me
    > > > of the woman who once told me, while I was ringing her
    > > > up, that she used to be a cashier before she "got a real
    > > > job" sheesh!
    > > >

    > > A cashier is choosing to work for less money. So, yes, that's
    > > stupid.
    > >

    >As if choice had anything to do with it!
    >

    "Choice" is always part of the decision making process. I've met
    too many adults that have bettered themselves to think anything
    else.

    Those that don't think choice is part of the process are as guilty
    of stupidity as those that work for less money because they think
    they can only be cashiers.
     
  18. The Ranger

    The Ranger Guest

    On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:46:46 GMT, sarah bennett
    <[email protected]> replied:
    > OK, how can I find a sales job with no experience?


    It depends on the business but car dealers are always looking for
    new salespeople. You can also find sales in the want ads of your
    local newspapers, visit Monster.com (or some other job search
    site), and enroll in Kelly Girl (although I believe they're now
    Manpower). The opportunities abound; your imagination and drive
    are the only limiting factors.

    The Ranger
     
  19. The Ranger wrote:
    > On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:46:46 GMT, sarah bennett
    > <[email protected]> replied:
    >
    >>OK, how can I find a sales job with no experience?

    >
    >
    > It depends on the business but car dealers are always looking for
    > new salespeople. You can also find sales in the want ads of your
    > local newspapers, visit Monster.com (or some other job search
    > site), and enroll in Kelly Girl (although I believe they're now
    > Manpower). The opportunities abound; your imagination and drive
    > are the only limiting factors.
    >
    > The Ranger


    funny, when I applied for these jobs they told me I didn't have enough
    experience.

    --

    saerah

    "Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
    disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
    -Baruch Spinoza

    "There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
    what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
    and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
    is another theory which states that this has already happened."
    -Douglas Adams
     
  20. "The Ranger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > "Choice" is always part of the decision making process. I've met
    > too many adults that have bettered themselves to think anything
    > else.
    >
    > Those that don't think choice is part of the process are as guilty
    > of stupidity as those that work for less money because they think
    > they can only be cashiers.


    Some people choose to be cashiers. That does not make them stupid.
     
Loading...