OT - Obnoxious customers & limits



The Ranger wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 22:02:56 GMT, sarah bennett
> <[email protected]> replied:
>
>>The Ranger wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:46:46 GMT, sarah bennett <[email protected]> replied:
>>>
>>>>OK, how can I find a sales job with no experience?
>>>>
>>>
>>>It depends on the business but car dealers are always looking for
>>>new salespeople. You can also find sales in the want ads of your
>>>local newspapers, visit Monster.com (or some other job search
>>>site), and enroll in Kelly Girl (although I believe they're now
>>>Manpower). The opportunities abound; your imagination and drive
>>>are the only limiting factors.
>>>

>>
>>funny, when I applied for these jobs they told me I didn't have enough
>>experience.

>
>
> Sales is all about selling. If you can't sell yourself, then you
> won't be able to sell the product, either.


I never even got a chance. They all told me, flat-out, that I had no
experience and that they weren't interested. Of course, it doesn't help
that I have to work around my husband's schedule, that he agreed to when
I was working early mornings,which rules out retail in general anyhow.
Not much available from 6 AM to 2:30 PM.

--

saerah

"Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
-Baruch Spinoza

"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
is another theory which states that this has already happened."
-Douglas Adams
 
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 22:02:56 GMT, sarah bennett
<[email protected]> replied:
>The Ranger wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:46:46 GMT, sarah bennett <[email protected]> replied:
> > > OK, how can I find a sales job with no experience?
> > >

> > It depends on the business but car dealers are always looking for
> > new salespeople. You can also find sales in the want ads of your
> > local newspapers, visit Monster.com (or some other job search
> > site), and enroll in Kelly Girl (although I believe they're now
> > Manpower). The opportunities abound; your imagination and drive
> > are the only limiting factors.
> >

> funny, when I applied for these jobs they told me I didn't have enough
> experience.


Sales is all about selling. If you can't sell yourself, then you
won't be able to sell the product, either.

The Ranger
 
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 22:06:56 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
asked after I <[email protected]> wrote in message:
> > "Choice" is always part of the decision making process. I've met
> > too many adults that have bettered themselves to think anything
> > else.
> >
> > Those that don't think choice is part of the process are as guilty
> > of stupidity as those that work for less money because they think
> > they can only be cashiers.
> >

> Some people choose to be cashiers. That does not make them stupid.
>

When they complain about how little money they earn or the
shortage of opportunities available or the number of complaints
they receive per shift... Yep.

The Ranger
 
Sarah wrote:

> OK, how can I find a sales job with no experience? Would sure beat making
> sandwiches for minimum wage.


Circuit City, Lincoln, California.

Bob
 
Naomi wrote:

> a certain number of customers have always come in with the idea that this
> is a game where they have to get the better of you and that you are trying
> to rip them off. Those people act that way everywhere they go.


If you can imagine it, some people even try to dicker about the shipping
price of Penzey's spices!

Bob
 
[email protected] wrote:
> Curly Sue wrote:
>
>>You're talking apples and oranges here. One is whether an employee
>>can get unemployment benefits if fired, the other is whether employees
>>can be fired at all.
>>
>>I thought that in the US, with the exception of contract employees and
>>some discrimination situations, employment is "at will." I.e., the
>>employee can quit at any time and the employer can let the employees
>>go at any time. If a convenience store hires someone it's hard to
>>believe that the store would be obligated to employ that person for
>>life.
>>
>>Sue(tm)
>>Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

>
>
> And I tried so hard to explain too. The two ideas are somewhat
> connected.
> In this way they are both round and fruits unless you call an orange
> a "vegetable." And they are also disconnected. I can be fired at will
> but I can also collect unemployment if the firing was not justified
> by unemployment standards. Sometimes they are also connected
> in that what happens in the unemployment bureau might have
> ramifications back against the employer.
>
> Have you had a chance to read employment law? You really
> can't fire someone because you feel like it. Well, you can,
> but there are ramifications. What the employers say and what the
> laws are - happen to be two different things, like apples and oranges,
> as you originally said.
>
> It really depends on the state.
> Not all states are the same. California and New Jersey have good laws
> whereas Pennsylvania is rather barbaric with almost no rights for
> employees.
>
> But there are federal remedies as well as state concerns, so it gets
> tricky. What occurs at the state level may not be allowed at the
> federal level. So that's another wrinkle.
>
> And there are exceptions to the "at will." The employers do not
> advertise
> this but there are exceptions even in the most barbaric of states.
>
> And come to think of it, why should a convenience store not employ
> someone for life if business is good and that person does a good
> job? Your comment seems rather callous. Is this really what you mean?




I can be terminated tomorrow if my employer doesn't need my services
anymore; I have no recourse, but I'm eligible to collect unemployment.
The employer cannot terminate me because I'm over 45 years old. Or
because I'm black or Indian or a woman or whatever.

Of course if the employer isn't stupid, he'll terminate me because I'm
50 (and he wants to hire a college kid for a cheaper salary) but he'll
*say* "We don't need you any more" and never mention the real reason. I
see it all the time.

Bob
 
The Ranger wrote:

>
> The manager/owner has the final say on whether a customer is
> costing them revenue or not. Nowhere in my examples does the
> salesclerk get to make that decision. Allowing salespeople (line
> staff) that latitude will tank sales for your business very
> quickly.
>


I agree fully with that. I have worked in retail and know who my
supervisors would fee l if I had booted a customer out of the store.
I probably would have been sent out the door right behind him.


How about cases where a customer is entitled to be irate?

A number of years ago I was renovating my downstairs bathroom and
went to a tile store for times, grout etc. to do the floor, counter
top and one wall. The store loaned the tools with a $25 deposit. I
did the tiles, grouted them and when I was finished I returned the
tools to the store and had my deposit returned. Great. No problem.

About two months later I got a call from the store wanting to know
where the tools were. She thought there had been a mistake and
someone had returned by deposit without getting the tools.
Well Duh!!! no. I got the deposit back because I returned the tools.
No. Their records show the deposit was returned but no tools. Well
Lady, think about it for a second. Doesn't it seem odd that someone
would return the deposit without getting the tools.

A few years later I did the upstairs bathroom. I got the supplies
from the same store and paid a $25 deposit to borrow the tools. I
finished the job, returned the tools and got my deposit back.
Wouldn't you know that a few weeks later I get a call from the same
woman trying to tell me that someone had returned the deposit
without getting the tools back.

I had been quite polite the first time it happened. I was not so
restrained the second time.
 
sarah bennett wrote:

> > Those that don't think choice is part of the process are as guilty
> > of stupidity as those that work for less money because they think
> > they can only be cashiers.

>
> OK, how can I find a sales job with no experience? Would sure beat
> making sandwiches for minimum wage.


I trust that you mean you would rather do the sales job at minimum wage than make
sandwiches for minimum wage. Unless things are different where you are, many sales jobs
are minimum wage or marginally above. Personally, I would rather make the sandwiches.
 
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005, Julia Altshuler wrote:
<snipped for space>
>
> This leads me to the question I'm opening for discussion. What are the
> limits? I know what I'd put up with from a boss, but I've never
> wondered before about what I'm expected to put up with from a customer.
> You read all the time about sexual harrassment from a boss, but what
> about from a customer? The boss (a nice guy who can get grouchy but who
> has never been mean or unfair, someone who is actually more likely to
> get himself into trouble for being a pushover) hasn't given us any
> guidelines except the nothing illegal one. Any thoughts?
>
>
> --Lia
>
>


Generally, what employees have to endure from customers is left up to the
boss - up to the point where a customer breaks a law that is
realistically enforcable. There is no law against being a jerk and most
people know it. Customers *know* you can't fight back, so it is open
season for jerks. If you don't have a boss that will "draw some clear
lines", you are pretty much "sh*t outta luck".

Your best defense is words - sweet, soft, kindly-spoken with a sincere look
on your face, always polite, kick-him-in-the-balls words. And a thick skin
doesn't hurt.

The grumpy jerks were some of my favorites. I'd always say, "I'm sorry
you're having such a bad day." The real jerks would protest that they were
not having a bad day. I'd say, looking surprised and guilty,"Oh, my! Then
I owe you an apology! I am soooo sorry. Now, I'm embarrassed. I mean, ...
you've just been so rude and so grumpy... I just assumed that you were
having a bad day and needed some to take it out on. We _____ ("clerks,"
"waitresses", "sales ladies", etc fill in the blank) get that a lot. Some
people just need to beat up on someone else to make themselves feel
better, ya know? and some are just born rude. Go figure. Now, where were
we?"

As far as your co-worker... Why do you think the boss hired her?????
Girls, especially the very pretty ones, need to learn to use their wits.

She should rush up and say to the grumpy old man (and any others), "Oh, I
am so glad to see you. I always enjoy it when you come in. (about this
time his ego is shifting into over drive and his spaghetti is hardening
up) You remind me
so much of my grandfather (if he's old enough or "my father", if he's that
age, or "my parish Priest" [whether she's Catholic or not] or any other
man real or fictitious, that no woman wants to sleep with). Of course, he
is a little taller and has more hair, but you're so much like him! You
even sound like him. I don't get to see him nearly often enough, but
whenever I see you, I think of him! Do you have grandkids my age? It is so
great to have a grandfather. You should bring them around sometime. I'd
love to meet them. Well, I got to get back to work. See you next time."

Nothing cooks a man's spaghetti to totally limp quite as fast as being
thought of by some hottie as her grandpa.

If you have been working with the public very long, you have heard it all.
Take what you know and work out some responses. Then adapt them to the
moment.

When I was about 22, I worked for a furniture manufacturer. I was sitting
in my office (wood 1/2 way up and then glass up to the ceiling) working on
the bookkeeping. I didn't realize I was being watched. A middle-aged man,
that I had never seen before, breezed into my office, sat down in the
chair next to my desk, leaned in toward me, licked his lips dramatically,
and said, "Mine's 12 inches long and it would be the best you ever had."

I sweetly replied, "So is my daddy's stud horse, but I don't
want him, either. Besides, I have an aversion to pre-marital relations
with dumb animals. Such a thing is against my religion, and such a
marriage is against the law. So, I guess that wraps this up."
I turned back to my work and he slithered away
- right to my boss (a premo *****, himself) to complain that I had
"insulted" him. My boss laughed for days (that was his answer to my
complaint).


What is it with men and their penises??? Geez.

When I was in college, I worked for Hickory Farms of Ohio - the cheese
store. We had sticks of summer sausage that were about 4 or 5 pounds each
and looked like skinny sticks of bologna (I had to sing that little
song to spell that. sheesh). We would cut them into about 1 pound pieces
and wrap them in plastic wrap. We were having a sale and I was standing
behind the display case cutting up the beef stick with a "cheese knife".
This knife looked like something a Pirate carried. It had about a six or
eight inch grip and a wide, thin blade about 12 or 14 inches long which
curved upward into a sharp point.

This man walked up to me from behind and to my left side. He picked up a
stick of the sausage and said to me, "Mine's about this size."

As I turned to face him, I had that cheese knife in my fist (and I talk
with my hands). I said, enthusiastically, "Well, Sugar, flop it out here
on this board and I'll chop it up for you like I do the beef stick. We'll
quadruple your pleasure and quadruple your fun. I can separate you from
those two cheese balls of yours, too. I'm good!" He waited for his wife
outside.

Working with the public is "get tough or die". You can say almost anything
as long as you do it "politely" and don't get mad and don't curse. Make it
work for you.

If I had a dollar....

Elaine, too
 
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:46:46 GMT, sarah bennett
<[email protected]> wrote:


>
>OK, how can I find a sales job with no experience? Would sure beat
>making sandwiches for minimum wage.


or being on welfare
 
On 18 Dec 2005 10:38:01 -0600, "Bob Terwilliger"
<virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz> wrote:

>Curly Sue wrote:
>
>> At this point, if she wants to sent a boundary with this guy, all she
>> has to do is look him in the eye and firmly say "Sorry, I've got a
>> boyfriend."

>
>All she has to do is squinch up her face and say, "EWWWWW!"
>

LOL!
 
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:01:48 GMT, sarah bennett
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>when you have a craving for something, you "have a jones" for it. I
>don't know the etymology, though.


Are you serious? That's equating it with sex!
 
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:30:28 GMT, "Ophelia" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"The Ranger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 11:59:58 GMT, "Ophelia" <[email protected]>
>> replied:
>> [snip]
>>>Jones! [..]

>>
>> To want something in an uncontrollably compulsive way. "I was
>> Jonesin' for a piece of that Chocolate Decadence Instant Death!"

>
>Thanks:) I think I am getting the picture:) I am still curious as to
>how it got the name Jones though:)
>

ever hear the term "keeping up with the jones" - coveting/lusting for
what someone else has
 
Dave Smith wrote:
> sarah bennett wrote:
>
>
>>>Those that don't think choice is part of the process are as guilty
>>>of stupidity as those that work for less money because they think
>>>they can only be cashiers.

>>
>>OK, how can I find a sales job with no experience? Would sure beat
>>making sandwiches for minimum wage.

>
>
> I trust that you mean you would rather do the sales job at minimum wage than make
> sandwiches for minimum wage. Unless things are different where you are, many sales jobs
> are minimum wage or marginally above. Personally, I would rather make the sandwiches.
>
>
>


I would rather be getting the same wage I was when I worked as a cashier :)

--

saerah

"Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
-Baruch Spinoza

"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
is another theory which states that this has already happened."
-Douglas Adams
 
Elaine Parrish <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Dec 2005, Julia Altshuler wrote:


> > Under what circumstances is an employee justified in throwing out an
> > asshat customer?


> Never. Without a decision from the boss, an employee never has the
> "right" to do so without putting his/her job in danger.


Not true, depending on the job and company policies. Bartenders
and bouncers typically eject customers without getting permission
from anybody.

Per Lia's situation, though, you're probably pretty close to
correct.

--
Mark Shaw moc TOD liamg TA wahsnm
========================================================================
"There must be security for all, or no one is secure. This does not mean
giving up any freedom, except the freedom to act irresponsibly."
- Klaatu
 
Julia Altshuler wrote:
> Customer comes into wine and cheese shop.


<snip>

It's only sexual harassment if she A) Tells him to stop and he refuses
and B) It's sexual in nature or involves touching. Tell her she's
pretty or complimenting her doesn't count. Not leaving her alone
doesn't count. I know - I have BTDT and sought legal advice. Her best
bet is to hide in the bathroom or walk away. he can only make her
uncomfotable if she sticks around to receive it.

As to where the buck stops in argumentative conflicts - in the few jobs
I have had where I interact with public, I recite the policy and if the
customer keeps throwing a fit, I tell them they need to contact the
management and hand them something with a name and number on it. I
often will let them know I understand they are upset. The nicer you
are to them, the more it diffuses the situation. I once told a
customer that if she was going to make racist comments, she needed to
make them in the mall where I couldn't hear them because she was
offending me. That's about as confrontational as I have been with a
customer. Otherwise, I pretty much kill them with kindness.

-L.
 
"sf" <see_reply_address_at_gmail_dot_com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:30:28 GMT, "Ophelia" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>"The Ranger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 11:59:58 GMT, "Ophelia" <[email protected]>
>>> replied:
>>> [snip]
>>>>Jones! [..]
>>>
>>> To want something in an uncontrollably compulsive way. "I was
>>> Jonesin' for a piece of that Chocolate Decadence Instant Death!"

>>
>>Thanks:) I think I am getting the picture:) I am still curious as to
>>how it got the name Jones though:)
>>

> ever hear the term "keeping up with the jones" - coveting/lusting for
> what someone else has


Yes!!!!! Now that starts to make sense:))

Thank you!
 
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 11:50:38 -0800, The Ranger
<[email protected]> wrote:

>My point to Ed was that an individual drone (salesclerk) does not
>have the authority to make those type of business decisions. If a
>customer is being too ornery, then s/he should bump the upset
>customer up a level. If s/he is so thin-skinned that they can
>handle confrontation of any type, then sales isn't the job for
>them.


Aside from the bigotry shown by "drone," it's obvious you haven't
grasped the situation Lia described. Small shop. Probably a fairish
amount of time there is *no* 'up a level' available. (IMO, if a shop
owner trusts an employee to run the place in his absence, he should
also give requisite authority for such situations as described)

You might want to read her original post and one or more of her
followups. The kind of situation you seem to be on about would apply
in a supermarket or K/Wal-Mart or such.

--
-denny-
"Do your thoughts call ahead or do they just arrive at your mouth unannounced?"

"It's come as you are, baby."

-over the hedge
 
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 19:03:48 -0500, Dave Smith
<[email protected]> wrote:

>A few years later I did the upstairs bathroom. I got the supplies
>from the same store and paid a $25 deposit to borrow the tools. I
>finished the job, returned the tools and got my deposit back.
>Wouldn't you know that a few weeks later I get a call from the same
>woman trying to tell me that someone had returned the deposit
>without getting the tools back.
>
>I had been quite polite the first time it happened. I was not so
>restrained the second time.


You didn't get a signed (and maybe notarized) receipt for the tools
the second time? tsk, tsk.

--
-denny-
"Do your thoughts call ahead or do they just arrive at your mouth unannounced?"

"It's come as you are, baby."

-over the hedge
 
"Ophelia" <[email protected]> wrote

> "sf" <see_reply_address_at_gmail_dot_com> wrote


>> ever hear the term "keeping up with the jones" - coveting/lusting for
>> what someone else has

>
> Yes!!!!! Now that starts to make sense:))


(laugh!!) Who are these Joneses that it makes more sense to you
than the heroin Joneses? No, Ophelia, really, it's to do with heroin
being called jones. We have lots of Joneses here, too ... even my
next door neighbors are Jones. No keeping up with them, no herion
that I know of.

nancy